Dengaroo Is OP

By Astech, in X-Wing

Now that I have your attention...

Dengar is not OP, and there are ways to counter him. However, wave 10 just dropped, and one card in particular is fantastic on him - scavenger crane:

Dengar (60)
JumpMaster 5000 (33), Lone Wolf (2), Extra Munitions (2), Proton Torpedoes (4), Zuckuss (1), Overclocked R4 (1), Scavenger Crane (2), Punishing One (12), Counter-Measures (3)

Manaroo (39)
JumpMaster 5000 (27), Push the Limit (3), R5-P8 (3), Feedback Array (2), Engine Upgrade (4)

That's 99 points of goodness. In many matchups, Dengar can easily kill a ship a turn, meanning that you've got him permanently at 3 agility, so long as scavenger crane holds out. Overall, that's an absurdly powerful ship, and might tip Dengar over the edge of broken. What do you think?

It won't actually change a thing. The correct strategy for most lists will still be to kill Manaroo first, then watch Dengar flail around with barely-modified dice as you bring him down at your leisure. If anything this change makes that plan better , as now Dengar doesn't even have the safety net of Glitterstim.

Edited by DR4CO

Clickbait is OP.

If Dengar is killing a ship a turn, you're already winning. Better to look for upgrades that shore up bad matchups such as palp aces, instead of winning harder in the matches you're already winning.

Fat Han is OP

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It won't actually change a thing. The correct strategy for most lists will still be to kill Manaroo first, then watch Dengar flail around with barely-modified dice as you bring him down at your leisure. If anything this change makes that plan better , as now Dengar doesn't even have the safety net of Glitterstim .

Glitterstim is, by nature, a one-turn patch. Against a great deal of lists, if Manaroo's already down, Dengar's lost (Rebel Reben, X7s, Imp Autothruster aces). Manaroo is always slippery, and the change to scavenger crane virtually guarantees that any direct attack on Dengar is suicide, through and through.

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Clickbait is OP.

Needs to be nerfed. Maybe:
Post Responsibility (EPT, 3 points)
You must use correct grammar, punctuation and not t post clickbait.

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If Dengar is killing a ship a turn, you're already winning. Better to look for upgrades that shore up bad matchups such as palp aces, instead of winning harder in the matches you're already winning.

Feedback array on Dengar could see use, but Manaroo's painbot is already a fairly hard counter to aces that don't come with some kind of X7 title. The only slot on Dengar that doesn't have a defined role is the illicit slot, and the choices there are fairly slim when it comes to Illicit anti-ace options.

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Fat Han is OP

These words. I don't understand them. The new Han is terrible?

Edited by Astech

Given Dengar essentially has infinite Focus, might as well give him plasma torps rather than protorps and save a point. Slightly less crits but cheaper and more effective at stripping shields.

5 hours ago, Astech said:

Glitterstim is, by nature, a one-turn patch. Against a great deal of lists, if Manaroo's already down, Dengar's lost (Rebel Reben, X7s, Imp Autothruster aces). Manaroo is always slippery, and the change to scavenger crane virtually guarantees that any direct attack on Dengar is suicide, through and through.

That's just the thing, though. Most players have figured out by now that if you bring down Mana you've won the game more often than not, so they're not going to waste time shooting at Dengar. Doubly so if you give them yet another reason not to do so by putting in Scavenger Crane.

The only time the Crane will be good is if 1) people are shooting at Dengar while in-arc without killing Mana first, and 2) you're killing ships regularly. If those 2 things are true you've won anyway, and Scavenger Crane or not won't have mattered one bit. If those 2 things are not true, then you've already lost and there's nothing Crane + Countermeasures will do about it.

Dengar isn't OP, but with the Scum shenanigans, builds with him in it --if practically equal pilot skill can be assumed-- are superior to any other squad that can be tabled. If the game were translated into the Star Wars Universe, Scum would easily rule the galaxy.

And no, I'm not equal at all with good or great X-Wing pilots, and I'm always on the receiving end of Scummy OP...ug.

If I know a pal is wanting to fly a Dengar shenanigans squad, I either fly fun and loose, or I bring the increasingly boring Defender squad and usually win cause I kill his stinking wife first. Yeah, I'm not proud, but he sucks and his wife has to pay for it. Complaining aside, those games are the least fun I have in X-Wing, it's like a math test or something. Why do it? I have to think too much, sweat, and mentally spend time wondering what the **** the designers were thinking to put us in such a box.

Edited by clanofwolves
7 hours ago, PiebeatsCake said:

If Dengar is killing a ship a turn, you're already winning. Better to look for upgrades that shore up bad matchups such as palp aces, instead of winning harder in the matches you're already winning.

I don't fly Scum much, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, I have to give you mad props for your forum name; in a word, AWESOME!

36 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I don't fly Scum much, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, I have to give you mad props for your forum name; in a word, AWESOME!

He means that Dengar doesn't perform well against enemies like Palp Aces that have such solid defenses that they will probably dodge all his damage even if he's using Zuckuss regularly.

There, torpedoes on Dengar, R5-P8 on Manaroo or some similar stuff, and even Glitterstim for the Old Teroch or Carnor matchup are better picks because they give Dengar a better chance there.

Salvage Crane is nearly useless there because if you kill an ace before they kill Manaroo you've probably already won and if you haven't and Manaroo is dead you've probably already lost.

So that isn't a scum thing but a list building thing - if you're really strong against some matchups already and very weak against others then it's often good to reduce your weaknesses instead of doubling down on your strengths.

Also, FFG needs to errata-fix OP's title.

Edited by numb3rc

Dangaroo is kind of OP without question, as it can run with a way larger than normal initiative bid and still be highly effective. Its not quite as extreme as 86 Phantoms (doesn't leave room for a ship at least), so it might not be enough of a problem to actually be nerf-worthy, though.

Nothing wrong with making manny range 1-2

Guarantee that she would still be widely used

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Nothing wrong with making manny range 1-2

Guarantee that she would still be widely used

This.

It makes soooooo much sense; then more squads could compete against them. Yep.

5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Nothing wrong with making manny range 1-2

Guarantee that she would still be widely used

I'd settle for 1-3. Doesn't kill Dengaroo as a squad but requires some actual flying to get the most out of it.

25 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

I'd settle for 1-3. Doesn't kill Dengaroo as a squad but requires some actual flying to get the most out of it.

I have never seen Dengaroo in action, so I've always wanted to ask about this -- doesn't Manaroo often need to cling to that kind of range band anyway, in order to acquire the TLs Dengar needs for his torpedoes?

9 minutes ago, Gibarian said:

I have never seen Dengaroo in action, so I've always wanted to ask about this -- doesn't Manaroo often need to cling to that kind of range band anyway, in order to acquire the TLs Dengar needs for his torpedoes?

no, Dengar can just get his own locks

manny passes focus

20 minutes ago, Gibarian said:

I have never seen Dengaroo in action, so I've always wanted to ask about this -- doesn't Manaroo often need to cling to that kind of range band anyway, in order to acquire the TLs Dengar needs for his torpedoes?

Not really. Dengar acquires his own lock first and snaps off his torpedo then switches to his primary and auto-Zucks everything, relying on Lone Wolf rerolls. Mana stays as far from the fight as she can to try and trick the opponent into trading shots with Dengar.