How does this work
Mentor discount
IIRC You pay 5 xp less for learning a new force power.
And that's basically it.
Edited by SEApocalypseOff the universal trees? Or any power off a force based spec? Or any of the powers that use the force?
Generally just Force powers, or specific powers as determined by the GM. It also does not reduce anything to 0, so 5 is the minimum. Farsight isn't free because of a mentor, in other words.
Given the last set of questions I suspect that there's some confusion: talents (and specializations) aren't force powers and aren't affected by something that reduces the cost of a force power.
It's pretty strait forward when you read it:
Quotepg 109 F&D
"When a Player Character purchases the basic version of a Force power, he may decrease the cost of the basic power by 5 XP. This discount does not apply when purchasing upgrades to Force powers. This discount only applies after the character has spent their initial XP during character creation."
The word basic is my point of confusion.
The Basic Power is the base power at the bottom of the tree (or top of the page). Each power only has one Basic Power and it's the first one you buy.
It's time for clarification by exhaustive list! Having a Mentor reduces the cost of buying the initial ability of the following trees:
Battle Meditation
Bind
Enhance
Foresee
Heal/Harm
Influence
Manipulate
Misdirect
Move
Protect/Unleash
Seek
Sense
Suppress
Warde's Foresight
These are Force Powers, and are affected. Force Talents, like Touch of Fate, Niman Technique, and Natural Mystic, and found in Specialization trees like Force-Sensitive Exile, Niman Disciple, and Seer, are not powers, and therefore do not get the discount. That seems to be the main source of confusion. Talents are not powers, and powers are not Talents.
Easy way to tell is what chapter the ability is described in. If you can read the full description in the Talents chapter, it's a no-go for Mentoring it. If it's in the The Force chapter, you can buy the first level cheaper.
Edited by Absol197Thank you thank you!
1 hour ago, Absol197 said:Warde's Foresight
I'm not sure Warde's Foresight would qualify as it's really only available through the adventure. At least I'd rule that it wasn't.
And that's a perfectly valid point 
. I just included it because technically it may apply, depending on the GM. I can see the Mentor bonus coming, not from direct instruction of specific techniques (i.e. this is how you use Move), but from being given a firmer grasp of HOW the Force works, allowing it to be applied to WF. Sure, your mentor can't tell you how to use WF itself, because they have no idea, but if they did a good job instilling in you a firm foundation, you can learn new Force techniques easier because you know how to figure it out yourself.
Now, you'd still need to know that WF is even possible, and the basics of it (a.k.a. "Have Warde's Holocron"), but once you had that, your training would allow you to pick up the skill quicker than someone without that foundation.
Different approaches and all that . Mine is that a Mentor teaches you how to learn about the Force, yours may very well be that a Mentor teaches you the specific techniques. And it may even depend on who the Mentor themself is.
18 minutes ago, Absol197 said:And that's a perfectly valid point
Now, you'd still need to know that WF is even possible, and the basics of it (a.k.a. "Have Warde's Holocron"), but once you had that, your training would allow you to pick up the skill quicker than someone without that foundation.
Different approaches and all that
Yeah, I'm more of the school that the Mentor teaches you how to actually use the given power, not just about how the Force works in general. This is what we see Yoda doing in ESB. He's specifically teaching Luke how to use specific powers.
And that's perfectly okay, for your games. In mine, most Mentors teach HOW to learn about the Force, rather than WHAT to learn about the Force. Both approaches are used in real life education, in a wide variety of subjects, and, importantly, neither approach is given preference by the rules. So do it how you like!
I know that for myself, as a martial artist, I've had both kinds of teachers, and the ones who teach how to learn have made me leaps and bounds better (sometimes literally 
) than those who focus solely on how to use specific techniques. So that's why I lean that particular direction.
EDIT: Also importantly, there's nothing to say that an effective Mentor doesn't do both! You can teach someone both how to learn and what to learn, and the best teachers know how to do it at the same time (sometimes without the student even realizing it!).
Edited by Absol1973 minutes ago, Absol197 said:And that's perfectly okay, for your games. In mine, most Mentors teach HOW to learn about the Force, rather than WHAT to learn about the Force. Both approaches are used in real life education, in a wide variety of subjects, and, importantly, neither approach is given preference by the rules. So do it how you like!
I know that for myself, as a martial artist, I've had both kinds of teachers, and the ones who teach how to learn have made me leaps and bounds better (sometimes literally
I agree, but for the XP discount, the rules seem to specifically follow the per power approach. Of course I tend to be of the old school where to learn a power at all, you need a teacher (or Holocron, scroll, or some other source), unless you have an innate "gift" for that power (such as Nomi Sunrider's gift for Battle Meditation).
And especially for something like Warde's Foresight, I can understand that. But just because you need someone to show you how it works initially doesn't mean that previous instruction on HOW to learn won't be applicable. You may not be able to learn the power at all without Warde's Holocron, but once you have it and the Gatekeeper decides to teach you, your previous instruction can help you make the logical and/or spiritual leaps and connections easier than someone who doesn't have that foundation of training.
As for the rules following the "per power" approach, I don't really see it. The Mentor bonus applies to every basic power you buy, doesn't it (as long as that basic power doesn't already costs only 5 xp)?
And all of this is even assuming that the "Mentor" in question is a sentient person. A "Mentor" can be any of a wide number of different things, as long as the logical end result of spending time with and/or around it is that you understand the Force better, mechanically represented by new abilities being easier to unlock. My favorite character ever, Kemna, her Mentor is a cactus. A non-sentient, couldn't-add-2-and-2-together, not Force-sensitive cactus. She provides the Mentor bonus, however, because, despite being non-sentient, she is incredibly different from Kem. Therefore the friendship the two of them have developed has helped Kem understand, at a deep and spiritual level, the vast networks of energy and interconnected-ness of life and the universe, and how two things that seem incredibly different actually aren't different at all, when seen through the Force. Auna never specifically sought out to "teach" Kem anything, but just knowing the little plant has taught her more than any sentient being ever has.
So I guess the answer is that I'm just very liberal with the title and description of "Mentor," and you're a bit more conservative with who can claim that title .
EDIT: And, because you jerks got me thinking about her ( 
), here's a piece I wrote about Kemna when she was really little (5 or 6, maybe). Feel free to ignore it, it's most certainly not my best writing! Everything in italics (mostly) is in Togruti.
“Stop it! Stop it, Sashto! Aemya!” The patter of little feet running announced the approaching stampede into the small sitting room, the young girl wriggling to try and escape the grasp of her older brother. “Aemya! Sashto’s being mean!” she accused.
At the table amidst a clutter of datapads, the haggard mother sat tapping her stylus absently as she reviewed the earnings figures for the month for the tenth time. They were just as dismal this time as they had been the previous nine.
Now in the presence of a parental authority, the boy immediately released his sister, his innocence utterly feigned and making no attempt to conceal the fact. “I was just telling her she needs to toughen up!” he insisted. “She can’t start crying every time we go through the bazaar!”
“But they were hurting the druyza!” The girl protested, her voice catching and tears beginning to well in her eyes. “He was scared and didn’t know what was happening!” As she spoke, the room seemed to flood with swirling currents of emotion: fear, pain, confusion, grief—the last feelings of an animal slaughtered for its meat, and those of a little girl who knew it and yet could barely understand.
“Kemna, please…!” Her mother pleaded sternly, looking up from her meager accounts to meet her daughter’s eyes. They were wide and full of concern, but as her mother held them with her own, the girl seemed to understand. Sobbing quietly a few times, she closed her eyes and drew in several deep breaths. As she did so the swirling eddies of emotion receded.
“Thank you,” their mother said, rubbing her temple absently. “And we’re speaking Basic today, remember?” She reminded gently.
“But Aemya,” Kemna sniffed, her eyes still glistening with tears. “I know what you’re saying!”
“Yes, but other people don’t know what you’re saying,” her mother noted.
“Then why don’t they Listen more?” The girl asked, genuinely puzzled.
“Not everyone’s as weird as you, Kemyaet!” Sashto smiled, moving to stand in front of her. “You gotta learn your Basic so you can pretend to be normal like everyone else!” He leaned in, a mischievous grin on his face, staring unblinkingly into her eyes.
After a moment, the girl started backwards, her hand jumping to cover her forehead. “Ow! Aemya, Sashto poked me!”
Their mother heaved a sigh. “Sashto didn’t—”
“O-jii! He was gonna!” As she gave voice to her accusation, the sensation of the foreseen action flashed in burning clarity across the senses of the others, along with a deluge of other impressions of things that they could barely comprehend, clashing with their actual perceptions and creating a jarring psychic feedback. Gritting her teeth, their mother clenched her hands at the painful juxtaposition skittered across her mind and the staggering weight of the sheer volume of sensation crushed down upon her.
Almost instantly, the vision stopped, the crashing wave of perception drawn back. The little girl gasped, and her manner changed abruptly. She stood withdrawn, timid, uncertain, averting her eyes. “I…” she stuttered. “I’m sorry. Aemya, I’m sorry…!”
Sashto too had lost his playful demeanor, but it was replaced with one of concern. He placed a gentle hand on his sister’s shoulder and drew her close, standing next to her protectively. “Amyai, she didn’t mean it,” he insisted, looking from his sister to his mother and back again.
“I’m sorry…” the girl whispered quietly, huddling close to her brother.
Drawing in a deep breath and forcing a smile, their mother stood up and crossed the small room, kneeling in front of them. “It’s okay,” she asserted. “I’m not mad.”
“O...O-jii,” Kemna squeaked quietly, staring at the floor. “You are. You’re mad at me…” Her hands drifted to her left lekku, kneading it nervously.
Her mother sighed again, and nodded. “You’re right, maybe I am a little mad. And I’m sorry. It’s just been a long day.” She reached out and gently turned her daughter’s face to look in her eyes.
“The numbers aren’t right,” the girl said, meeting her gaze. “You’re worried they could make us leave our house. That they might hurt us...”
She smiled again, with a hint of sadness this time. She didn’t want her children to know how dire their troubles were, but there was really no way to hide anything from her daughter’s keen insight. “Yes. I am worried. But that’s no excuse for me to be mad at you.”
“But I hurt you…” At the thought of it, Kemna grew frantic and tears began to form in her eyes once more, her voice taut with raw emotion. “Aemya, I hurt you! I’m sorry, I hurt you!”
“Shhh! Shhh!” She hushed softly, drawing both her children into a tight hug. “A-na, a-na! It’s okay. You’re getting so much better!” The three of them stayed there, swaying gently for a long moment. Then their mother released them and placed her hands lovingly on her daughter’s face. “So we just have to learn how to focus a bit better, a-jii?”
"A...a-jii, Aemya..."
She glanced at her son. “And Sashto’s going to help you!”
“How—” for a moment the girl’s brows were knit in confusion, but quickly her eyes grew wide as she sensed what her mother was about to suggest.
“Because every time you mess up, he gets to poke you!” She teased playfully, tickling the girl’s stomach.
“Na, na!” She giggled, worming away and taking off around the room as her brother gave chase.
“I can do that!” The boy snickered. “Come here, Kemyaet, I owe you two for tonight!”
The two chased each other for several minutes, their laughter filling every corner of the small house, until Kemna suddenly stopped and looked up. “Aemat!” Her pause cost her dearly, as her brother engulfed her and unleashed a storm of pokes that had her writhing with breathless laughter.
She was saved a minute later, however, when in the next room a whoosh declared that their father had entered through the door. “Ah, what’s going on here?” He demanded with a laugh. He set down the large satchel he carried by the entry and strode quickly into the room, scooping his daughter up into his arms.
“Sashto’s poking me!” She informed him, clinging to his neck to escape the barrage of fingers.
“I can see that,” he observed. “What did we do to deserve that?”
“We’re speaking Basic today,” their mother noted, crossing the room to greet her husband.
“We are?” He asked, bending slightly to kiss his wife. “And how’s that going?”
“Guud!” Kemna insisted, entirely unconvincingly. Her eyes widened suddenly and she gasped, as she picked up on something from his mind. “The—!”
“Ah ah!” Her father interrupted, holding up an imperative finger. “Let people talk, Kemna!” He set the girl down and looked around the room as she danced excitedly, waiting for him to give the news. “You’ll never guess what I saw on my way—”
“The Lights!” Kemna blurted, unable to contain herself.
“Let people talk,” he admonished gently, but he smiled. “That’s right! Go now, help your mother with the blankets!”
Soon, the four of them were outside, lying against the domed roof, snuggled close together under the black thermal blankets to keep the biting air of the desert night at bay. Above them, dancing slowly through the sky to the north, tremendous ribbons of light turned and weft across the heavens, in shifting bands of pale greens and pinks and blues, mystic and mysterious, beautiful and haunting.
Huddled between her mother and brother, the young togruta girl felt a peace that she rarely had the chance to enjoy. Concern and worry still filled her mother and father, a quiet dread for the uncertain future, but with the four of them together, they allowed even the ever-present anxiety to drift into the background, to lose themselves in this tiny moment of serenity.
And the rest of her world, raw and loud, a shifting and chaotic clash of thoughts and feelings, careening energies and flashes of power, all seemed to glide together – not disappearing, but merging into one eternal tapestry, infinite and gentle. As the streamers of light slowly bent and twisted, she could feel, somehow, how they connected to everything, and everything connected to them. Socorro's volcanic core churned beneath them; the planet turned; the sun blazed; the stars gleamed. And it was all a part of the same forever dance, alluring and distance, yet awesome and embracing.
It’s amazing, she thought to herself, feeling the tapestry move through and around her, shining with the love of her family, rushing with unfathomable strength yet somehow unmoving.
It really is...DIVINE…
As others have said, the Mentor benefit only applies when you're buying the Basic Power (i.e. the very first ability) of a Force power. It doesn't apply to specializations or talents.
Now, what I've seen and heard (and even done in a couple instances) was to allow the Mentor benefit to be applied when the player is spending the XP out of their character's starting XP budget. The couple times I've allowed it, none of the PCs went crazy with buying every single Force power available to a FR1 character, but I'll admit that I don't game with min-maxing power-gaming munchkins, so YMMV on whether that rules exception would be a problem or not.
In one of the two cases that I allowed it, the PCs were pretty much all students of the Mentor, having been practically raised by an Order 66 survivor in a remote compound, with the first session planned to be the compound being attacked by the Empire, causing the students (all teenagers) being on their own and cut off from their Mentor (captured by the Empire), so they wouldn't have access to XP cost reduction until he'd been liberated. Campaign sadly never got past the character creation stages, which was a shame as it had a lot of potential seeing as how it was set in the Dark Times and well before the Rebel Alliance was properly formed.
Other instance was a campaign I kicked off during the FaD Beta, before it got clarified/revised that the Mentor benefit didn't apply with starting XP.
Edited by Donovan Morningfire6 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:Now, what I've seen and heard (and even done in a couple instances) was to allow the Mentor benefit to be applied when the player is spending the XP out of their character's starting XP budget. The couple times I've allowed it, none of the PCs went crazy with buying every single Force power available to a FR1 character, but I'll admit that I don't game with min-maxing power-gaming munchkins, so YMMV on whether that rules exception would be a problem or not.
Honestly, min-maxing power-gaming munchkins probably wouldn't go for it, because they'd be spending all the starting XP they can on characteristics, and you can't necessarily do a whole heck of a lot with most Force powers at FR 1. I mean, you might get someone pumping Intellect and grabbing Harm right at the start for the soakless damage, but unless you're throwing really high soak enemies at the PCs, 5 damage past soak isn't hard, and they're still a lot of XP away from being able to do more than that.