Just wanted to mention that Kylo has had very mixed results in vassal league so far. Obviously it's early, a pretty limited sample, and players are still figuring out how to field him, but I feel pretty confident that he isn't going to be nearly as defining at the top level as those top tier lists that are in play right now.

On 2/1/2017 at 10:59 PM, phild0 said:

Especially when Kylo is paired WITH Palp for the auto-converted Crit...Feels bad when you're flying anything with < 3 Agi + Focus + Evade!

I was thinking Kylo, crew that is, with RAC with A Score to Settle and Gunner. Thats DOUBLE focus fixing to crits AND a second shot if needed.

Yeah but the decimator will totally burn under a score to settle, your better going with hotshot and gunner

2 hours ago, GamerGuy1984 said:

I was thinking Kylo, crew that is, with RAC with A Score to Settle and Gunner. Thats DOUBLE focus fixing to crits AND a second shot if needed.

Why would you bother with ASTS when you can get an EPT that does something your pilot doesn't already do...? NEVER double up on the same abilities.

5 hours ago, Kdubb said:

Just wanted to mention that Kylo has had very mixed results in vassal league so far. Obviously it's early, a pretty limited sample, and players are still figuring out how to field him, but I feel pretty confident that he isn't going to be nearly as defining at the top level as those top tier lists that are in play right now.

I don't think he will, no, but I think he's going to be popular enough to 'gear check' anyone wanting to get into the top end of a tournament. If you can't beat Kylo you won't get far enough to play against the top tier stuff.

5 hours ago, Kdubb said:

Just wanted to mention that Kylo has had very mixed results in vassal league so far. Obviously it's early, a pretty limited sample, and players are still figuring out how to field him, but I feel pretty confident that he isn't going to be nearly as defining at the top level as those top tier lists that are in play right now.

Yeah, I had a game yesterday where I played 2 Defenders + Deathfire versus RAC/Jax and even though my opponent flew very well and I had some really bad mistakes I won pretty decisively. The strongest thing about that Decimator was Hotshot/Gunner, not Kylo. If he isn't good versus a Defender three ship list, what exactly will he target in the meta?

Very underwhelming card for what the hype has been around it.

14 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

So. The wording is as is because casual games, per the rule book, share one deck.

Tournament games obviously have different rules, and there's no reason why this wouldn't follow suit:

Damage Cards

When a player’s ship is dealt a Damage card, the card is dealt from that

player’s own Damage deck. Players must maintain their own discard piles for

their Damage cards. Before shuffling, players may request to examine their

opponent’s Damage deck to validate its contents. The TO may check Damage

decks at any time.

A ship is being given the condition, which assigns a damage card that would be dealt to the ship. As nothing at all states, with clarity, that the card comes from the assigner's deck, then we default to rules as published. Yes, cards are allowed to break the rules, but ISYTDS never mentions a specific deck, so has no reason to break that rule.

I want to say that yours were exaclty my own arguments. For what is worht it's also written in the tournament rules that players can't share a damage deck.

However, I had someone else (and not a random opponent, the non-playing head judge of a major event, responsable of the whole organized play for the country for years) pointing out that when resolving ISYTDS you aren't assigning a damage card to your opponent, but to the card.

I would really love to see Kylo work with the opponent's deck, but I fear this might not be ffg intent, at least so far. Seeing they are taking literally ages to update the FAQ, maybe they can still change their mind

It would be FANTASTICALLY stupid for FFG to design a card expected to be used in a major tournament which caused players to mix up their damage decks with each other, so I'm goign to go ahead and assume that they've *not* done something that colossally dumb.

16 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

First off, is anyone else tempted to put this image over the ISYTDS card?

"You call that the Dark Side?"

Second, I think RAC isn't the optimal ride for Kylo crew - then again, I'm against 2-ship lists and by using a Deci you're forced into a 2-ship list.

My suggestion? Scimitar Squadron TIE/Shuttle, and nothing else.

1) At 19 points, it's perfect for four-ship builds.

2) Kylo (crew) requires an action and does not require arc - perfect for a low-PS blocker ship.

3) It draws target priority like no one's business, and putting it on a low-priority shuttle messes with their choices.

4) It LOOKS like a soft target, and does go down in a turn or two of concentrated fire - but those turns are ones where their guns aren't pointed at your real threats, and Kylo's value goes down the longer the game stretches on.

The list I've been pondering has a mix of old and new friends - all first Order. Quickdraw with Rage/E-Baffles, Omega Leader with Juke/Comm Relay, Omega Ace with Push the Limit. It has a perfect early/middle/late curve (QD races in to erase their late-game threat or trade to weaken their One Big Ship, Kylo + OA don't so much fish for crits as force them down the opponent's throat, and then OL does her 1v1 thang.) It only comes to 99 points, so there's a touch of flexibility there - TIE mkII on QD, or Inspiring Recruit on the TIE/shuttle?

The one game I've played it in had some surprising notes - OA is absolutely brutal against no-AGI high hull ships. Putting 3 crits into a Ghost and flipping Direct Hit, Major Explosion into Weapon Failure, and Shaken Pilot?

The Scimitar Kylo (crew) also has potential as a partner to RAC with something else - bare-bones RAC (VI+EU) with the Scimitar leaves 30 points, which is enough for a creative player to work with what with all those Imp budget aces.

I ran Kylo in the Scimitar Shuttle last night. I did add Lightweight Frame to the shuttle for an extra defense die. I paired it with Vader and a Tempest Squadron, both running title and ATC, and OL. Having two ATC's really upped the chances of getting the crit through. My opponent spent so much time trying to get the shuttle off the board that my other ships were able to gut his list.

4 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

I want to say that yours were exaclty my own arguments. For what is worht it's also written in the tournament rules that players can't share a damage deck.

However, I had someone else (and not a random opponent, the non-playing head judge of a major event, responsable of the whole organized play for the country for years) pointing out that when resolving ISYTDS you aren't assigning a damage card to your opponent, but to the card.

I would really love to see Kylo work with the opponent's deck, but I fear this might not be ffg intent, at least so far. Seeing they are taking literally ages to update the FAQ, maybe they can still change their mind

Again, it's willful misreading that leads to this. Nothing refers to drawing damage cards from the "wrong" deck, and other tournament rules are specific about how damage cards are assigned.

There is 0% chance FFG is going to FAQ this to say it comes from the assigner's deck. It makes a strong card even more stupidly strong, and it WOULD lead to mixing up damage decks.

Do what the card says. Draw from the damage deck. The only legal damage deck for the player the condition is assigned to is their own. No text on the condition changes that, or attempts to.

20 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

I want to say that yours were exaclty my own arguments. For what is worht it's also written in the tournament rules that players can't share a damage deck.

However, I had someone else (and not a random opponent, the non-playing head judge of a major event, responsable of the whole organized play for the country for years) pointing out that when resolving ISYTDS you aren't assigning a damage card to your opponent, but to the card.

I would really love to see Kylo work with the opponent's deck, but I fear this might not be ffg intent, at least so far. Seeing they are taking literally ages to update the FAQ, maybe they can still change their mind

I have emailed FFG if and when I get a response on this topic I'll be sure to let everyone know; I assume I'm not the only one curious or who has emailed them; but I assume the answer will be the opponents but who knows

20 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Do what the card says.

This sentence is abused. Of course everyone wants to do what the card says, the problem is deciding on what it actually says. This decision can never be made on the basis of a piece of text, you always need some outside knowledge and inevitably, that is where the differences begin. Quine, anyone?

So be honest about what you think is a reasonable assumption. Don't bluntly state "do what the card says," because this is never a singularly clear meaning. At best, there is extensive agreement about matters we consider trivially true.

This is just another place where FFG's awful playtesting method falls down. It's mostly/exclusively experienced players so they don't ask the dumb questions that the rest of the player base will be confused by.

Played two games against a Kylo Crew card yesterday. Both games ended in under 15 minutes.

My list: Bossk / Ketsu

Their list: Maarek and RAC (Kylo, Gunner, VI, Engine, some other crew)

First game:

Maarek caught at optimal range for me, only thing that could save him was a blinded pilot from Kylo. So PS10 RAC used his action for IWSYTDS, chose blinded and rolled dice. First roll at range 3, blank, focus, hit. I evaded. Gunner kicked in, blank, hit, hit. I took one damage.

Maarek died to Ketsu and Bossk combo.

Next turn, I chased RAC, got range 1 Ketsu and a range 2 homing from Bossk, used Boba to remove Kylo for the lulz. Opponent conceded.

Second game: Same list except "other crew" was Vader crew

Maarek ran away at the start and I chased him. Took three turns to catch up but this time Ketsu took the blinded pilot crit via Vader crew (was that interaction correct?) Next engagement was bump central between Ketsu and RAC which denied him actions and split his fire. Maarek took a hit via Bossk - Zuckuss.

Another bump between RAC and Ketsu later saw Bossk in prime homing missile position on Maarek. Maarek died.

Next turn, RAC broke free and assigned a second blinded pilot to Ketsu but relying on natural dice and Gunner against a Countermeasured, Glitterstimed, evade token Ketsu did nothing and I hit RAC with everything I had.

That was game.

Moral of the story, you need Dauntless/other means of modifying your attack dice and don't assume that Kylo will win the game for you. That being said, I think i had an advantage over my opponents in that I had used Kylo crew a few weeks prior so was aware of what it could do and acted accordingly.

1 hour ago, Viktus106 said:

Ketsu took the blinded pilot crit via Vader crew (was that interaction correct?)

Assuming you mean 'using Vader to trigger the crit off ISYTDS', no, it's not. The crit from Vader isn't damage from an attack, so it doesn't trigger ISYTDS.

4 hours ago, Verlaine said:

This sentence is abused. Of course everyone wants to do what the card says, the problem is deciding on what it actually says. This decision can never be made on the basis of a piece of text, you always need some outside knowledge and inevitably, that is where the differences begin. Quine, anyone?

So be honest about what you think is a reasonable assumption. Don't bluntly state "do what the card says," because this is never a singularly clear meaning. At best, there is extensive agreement about matters we consider trivially true.

No, this sentence is misunderstood. Do what the card says means that you should NOT look for additional meaning in the things that are not stated, which is often the issue when discussing rules concerns -- someone is reading into things when, really, they've warped the card's meaning by trying to account for information not included.

In this instance, the card does not identify the assigner's deck, which would be a fundamentally different process than the standard rules allow for, so you should default to the core rules in this instance.

Looking into it more, and not related to your post, Verlaine, but Conditions don't exist until they are assigned to a ship, once again pointing out that the only legal damage deck for ISYTDS is the assigned player's deck. From the reference card: " A Condition card is not in play until a game effect assigns it to a ship. When a Condition card is assigned, its text immediately resolves." This should remove the ambiguity as to when you're searching a deck.

1 hour ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

No, this sentence is misunderstood. Do what the card says means that you should NOT look for additional meaning in the things that are not stated...

And that's the problem right there, because any text doesn't have meaning in itself, it has meaning because of a wider context. It gets meaning because it refers to something outside of it. So every card is about things that are not on the card, and it's impossible to read it in isolation.

Too often I see people make the distinction between 'rules as they are' and 'interpretations'. But that distinction doesn't exist. Reading a card means interpreting it, always.

1 hour ago, Verlaine said:

And that's the problem right there, because any text doesn't have meaning in itself, it has meaning because of a wider context. It gets meaning because it refers to something outside of it. So every card is about things that are not on the card, and it's impossible to read it in isolation.

Too often I see people make the distinction between 'rules as they are' and 'interpretations'. But that distinction doesn't exist. Reading a card means interpreting it, always.

I think there are examples that would support both of our interpretations of this phrase. I think, as a rule of thumb, text on cards are explicit, and considering otherwise leads to complications.

X-Wing certainly has some cards where that is not the be-all, end-all, and I would never suggest something as glib as, "Do what the card says, not what it doesn't say," is a catch all. I have seen it acting as a strong "catch most," however.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Assuming you mean 'using Vader to trigger the crit off ISYTDS', no, it's not. The crit from Vader isn't damage from an attack, so it doesn't trigger ISYTDS.

Oh . .. well . . err. . . that match should have been shorter!

Just watched a local guy lose his mind and Rage Quit a game at the FLGS last night because of Kylo / IWSYTDS. He's no top-tier competitive player, but he's been doing X-Wing here and there in the local community for the past couple years and is a pretty nice guy and good sport. But his game against IWSYTDS left him spewing a string of profanities, throwing his squad into his case, and leaving talking about how's just going to stick to Destiny now.

12 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Just watched a local guy lose his mind and Rage Quit a game at the FLGS last night because of Kylo / IWSYTDS. He's no top-tier competitive player, but he's been doing X-Wing here and there in the local community for the past couple years and is a pretty nice guy and good sport. But his game against IWSYTDS left him spewing a string of profanities, throwing his squad into his case, and leaving talking about how's just going to stick to Destiny now.

I could understand the frustration, if he flew against multiple Kylo lists. It's pretty annoying and, if you're strictly casual (even in a competitive setting), you get burned for not following the meta closely this time.

i really don't see what the big deal is, i flew Kylo pilot + palpatine and he got murdered by a PUNISHER, he never even got to deal the crit.

i honestly don't see ISYTDS as a bonus, it basically just changes Direct hits to blinded pilots. unless it somehow bypasses sheilds

1. Of course you don't see the big deal that way, kylo pilot is manageable for your opponent

2. ISYTDS does bypass shields, otherwise it'd be pointless

Condition bypasses shields. Crut damage = result of uncanceled CRIT result

Critdamage either remove a shield or deals the drawn damage card faceup

INSTEAD, the chosen Pilot card is dealt face up to the defender

Biggest deal for me flying kylo shuttle, not crew, is damaged cockpit moreso than blinded

Because holy hell, even scary late game ships become managable

Love it because it gives you a chance toactually fire at hypermobile late game ships

I've had great fun a d success flying Kylo pilot with rebel captive, as no one wants to shoot him and he dishes out so much damage. I do need to figure out a better way to turn around though.