Hey guys, short question:

If I'm playing Kylo and put I'll Show You The Dark Side (ISYTDS) on my opponent, does the Pilot damage card attached to ISYTDS come from my opponent's damage deck or mine?

3 minutes ago, Razgriz25thinf said:

All the more reason to bring Biggs.

Can't trigger the ability on Norra if you can't shoot her. And yeah, sure go ahead, give it to Biggs and shoot at him. Bet; i'll just pop IA and discard it.

I will out-bore the most boring new card available.

*shrug* still costs you a hit point to ignore, potentially multiple if you're running R4-D6. And means you can't use IA to discard Direct Hit...

19 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

*shrug* still costs you a hit point to ignore, potentially multiple if you're running R4-D6. And means you can't use IA to discard Direct Hit...

Not really; One of Vader's damage is always a crit, same for RAC, so R4-D6's usefulness in this matchup is just for the free shield. Even still, that's 3 more attack dice i get to throw at a 0 agility ship. Once the deci is gone, i win. Not to mention that i just throw stress on the thing with Braylen, forcing a green maneuver to trigger Kylo again(assuming i don't get the most lucky roll in history and completely whiff the first attack, double stressing the deci and still putting damage on, at which point Kylo becomes completely inoperable). I could bring the Deci as low as 6 hull turn 1, assuming optimal dice. Average dice would bring it down to about 8 hull. This is assuming no crits are rolled. By the time Biggs is dead, RAC could be down to his last few hull, at which point i don't entirely mind taking a Kylo crit cause ARCs have 6 hull, and against a 0 AGI ship Braylen and Norra are both equally scary, so no matter what the Kylo player makes the wrong choice. From there i just have to eliminate 5 HP of Vader, which Braylen makes easy since you can't get Vaders 2 actions if you're double stressed....

I'm lucky that my primary list does so well against this. Doesn't mean Kylo is a well-designed card though.

Honestly, this is why I largely don't think that Kylo crew's going to be as strong as people think. Unless you're running it with an Upsilon to allow it to take 2 actions, you're losing RAC's ability to reliably arc dodge, and that's a HUGE part of RAC's ability to not die.

.

It is. Put Rebel Captive on your other ship.

IME Kylo, both pilot and crew, is a game of messing with targetting priority, so make that decision as hard as possible - forcing people to ignore something they;re already inclined to ignore, more, is not a good idea, especially when that ship is a HORRIBLE closer because it's not a turret and can't turn round to save its life, literally.

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Honestly, this is why I largely don't think that Kylo crew's going to be as strong as people think. Unless you're running it with an Upsilon to allow it to take 2 actions, you're losing RAC's ability to reliably arc dodge, and that's a HUGE part of RAC's ability to not die.

Well, Blinded Pilot, at the right moment, will shut down a lot of lists' damage potential vs RAC.

I ran mine w/out EU (I had OL and Wampa as support ships), and never once felt I was missing out (barring my very last match, where I could have won by running away... But I'm not particularly upset in that instance. OL was especially nice as a wing(wo)man, because she could reliably push crits through during the instances RAC couldn't (though I think I'd have preferred Gunner instead of Palp, as I was running).

Against swarms and some others, yeah, that's a pretty frustrating loss, though, it's just not completely w/out defense.

How I've found it works is that you're arc-dodging whenever possible but when it's not possible you blind them instead. By endgame you've naturally used up your best Kylo crits and are back to boosting for best position.

Kylo is kind of like the Deci equivalent of when Soontir turtled instead of boost/barreled.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Honestly, this is why I largely don't think that Kylo crew's going to be as strong as people think. Unless you're running it with an Upsilon to allow it to take 2 actions, you're losing RAC's ability to reliably arc dodge, and that's a HUGE part of RAC's ability to not die.

27 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

How I've found it works is that you're arc-dodging whenever possible but when it's not possible you blind them instead. By endgame you've naturally used up your best Kylo crits and are back to boosting for best position.

Kylo is kind of like the Deci equivalent of when Soontir turtled instead of boost/barreled.

Precisely. Kylo won't always be worth using. It will depend on many factors. Using Kylo will usually be worth it against hard to kill, low HP ships such as Corran, Jake or Inquisitor - simply because you'll only need to score 2 hits to vaporize them. It will also be worth it against mid-agi regenerators such as Poe or Corran, because he bypases regen (yeah, Corran will have it rough). It will be worth it if you can't dodge out of arc - to blind the most dangerous enemy. It may be worth it to assign PS0 crit to some enemies or no straight maneuvers crit in some situations. Most of the other times though, he won't be used and that's absolutely fine. If he stops the enemy from firing in just one crucial engagement, that alone might be worth 3 points. Kylo's a tool, not a cornerstone of a completely new archetype.

This is also why I don't really buy the "Biggs will make Kylo useless" comments and such. Biggs isn't an attractive target for Kylo simply because it's much easier to just lock him and burn through him than play around with fancy conditions. Even if integrated astro wasn't a thing, there are much worse crits in the damage deck than those with pilot trait anyway and burning through Biggs' shields to apply them isn't all that hard to do. So Kylo will be useless against Biggs. He might be very much worthwile against anything Biggs will be protecting though. And Biggs usually dies, sooner or later.

6 hours ago, Thrawn on YouTube said:

Hey guys, short question:

If I'm playing Kylo and put I'll Show You The Dark Side (ISYTDS) on my opponent, does the Pilot damage card attached to ISYTDS come from my opponent's damage deck or mine?

it seems Kylo uses a Pilot damage card from your own deck

6 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

it seems Kylo uses a Pilot damage card from your own deck

Neither

It comes from THE damage deck

The deck from wence all damage decks were created

source of all harm in the xwing world...

16 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

it seems Kylo uses a Pilot damage card from your own deck

Is this right? I'd assumed it was the opponent's deck.

If it's your own deck that's just asking for players to walk off with illegal damage decks every game!

35 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

it seems Kylo uses a Pilot damage card from your own deck

No, it comes from your opponent's deck. Otherwise this would ALSO have the benefit of removing Pilot crits from your deck, which is absolutely not the intent.

If it's going on your enemy's ship, it's coming from your enemy's deck.

I sincerely doubt it comes from your damage deck.
Both because that gives you the power to remove those from your deck and thus give your opponent MORE of them, and also that would get confusing as hell quick. Complaints of missing cards would be all over the place.

Also, I'd definitely be using the old damage deck and slapping down all those 'remove pilot abilities & EPTs' crits left right and centre.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Also, I'd definitely be using the old damage deck and slapping down all those 'remove pilot abilities & EPTs' crits left right and centre.

MajorJuggler intentionally used the old damage deck because the Blinded Pilot crit can be circumvented by Advance Targeting Computer (on Vader pilot), and Gunner, which he used to eventually pull ahead in our Kylo RAC-on-Kylo RAC fight.

... Seriously, Blinded Vader attacked my 1 hull RAC at range 3. The ATC adds a single crit result (because zero dice rolled is still an attack, based on old Blinded wording). I rolled an evade... which he Crackshotted

It was my mistake to not notice he was even using the old deck until later, though (I focused on making RAC and Vader PS0 first).

Yeah I'd seen that there was something like this going on. If you'd dropped the pilot ability off RAC instead would it have been much difference? I guess not if Vader was still punching out the crits.

18 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Yeah I'd seen that there was something like this going on. If you'd dropped the pilot ability off RAC instead would it have been much difference? I guess not if Vader was still punching out the crits.

The issue is that you NEED to get so many things off. You want RAC at zero, you want to make liberal use of blinded -- you need to lower/control the damage coming your way. Though, knowing how old blinded works... It's going to be better to take off RAC's ability -- if only Vader can reliably get crits, your game gets MUCH easier.

I'm not sure it's the right choice, except in a matchup where you surprise your opponent with it -- I truly forgot how the old cards were worded, and didn't do my research before hand, or I'd have been far more selective with my Kylo crits.

34 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

No, it comes from your opponent's deck. Otherwise this would ALSO have the benefit of removing Pilot crits from your deck, which is absolutely not the intent.

If it's going on your enemy's ship, it's coming from your enemy's deck.

I was told that's exactly the intent.

I really doubt it, my ruling was that the crit had to come from your opponent deck, but it seems it will be faqed to his own. Probably there's still hope ffg doesn't go ahead with that

19 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I was told that's exactly the intent.

I really doubt it, my ruling was that the crit had to come from your opponent deck, but it seems it will be faqed to his own. Probably there's still hope ffg doesn't go ahead with that

Right, I'll avoid but point out that I have rants about people leaning too heavily on the FAQ.

The condition is assigned to the opponent's ship. Therefore, when it is talking about "the" damage deck, it is talking about the opponent's damage deck, as the damage card is pulled after the condition is assigned. There is no confusion here, despite FFG missing the very obvious use of the word "your," but I guess they've been tripping themselves up there lately.

Anyone playing differently is intentionally trying to swing the game in their favor, either through personal ignorance or preying on the ignorance of others.

9 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Right, I'll avoid but point out that I have rants about people leaning too heavily on the FAQ.

The condition is assigned to the opponent's ship. Therefore, when it is talking about "the" damage deck, it is talking about the opponent's damage deck, as the damage card is pulled after the condition is assigned. There is no confusion here, despite FFG missing the very obvious use of the word "your," but I guess they've been tripping themselves up there lately.

Anyone playing differently is intentionally trying to swing the game in their favor, either through personal ignorance or preying on the ignorance of others.

well no, see the condition card reads

note: "the player who assigned it" is the subject (as opposed to the ship it is assigned to)

which means THE damage deck could easily be his

no need to get overdramatic for what is, quite objectively, confusing and poor wording

we play it from the opponent's deck, however, because mixing crits from various decks is a recipe for annoyance come clean-up

51 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

well no, see the condition card reads

note: "the player who assigned it" is the subject (as opposed to the ship it is assigned to)

which means THE damage deck could easily be his

no need to get overdramatic for what is, quite objectively, confusing and poor wording

we play it from the opponent's deck, however, because mixing crits from various decks is a recipe for annoyance come clean-up

So. The wording is as is because casual games, per the rule book, share one deck.

Tournament games obviously have different rules, and there's no reason why this wouldn't follow suit:

Damage Cards

When a player’s ship is dealt a Damage card, the card is dealt from that

player’s own Damage deck. Players must maintain their own discard piles for

their Damage cards. Before shuffling, players may request to examine their

opponent’s Damage deck to validate its contents. The TO may check Damage

decks at any time.

A ship is being given the condition, which assigns a damage card that would be dealt to the ship. As nothing at all states, with clarity, that the card comes from the assigner's deck, then we default to rules as published. Yes, cards are allowed to break the rules, but ISYTDS never mentions a specific deck, so has no reason to break that rule.

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 11:05 AM, ArbitraryNerd said:

Played in a store tournament last night. Flew a Kylo RAC list (variant), and almost everyone else was, too...

Last match was against MajorJuggler and we both decided, after two prior similar matches and this one dragging out... Kylo isn't very fun on either side and he really outlives his usefulness after a couple triggers. Sure, this was a bit colored in one direction, due to constant Decimator vs Decimator slugfests, but I think it will, in the end, hold true in other matches as well.

Also, MajorJuggler is a bit of a troll for using the old damage deck >.<

Against some lists, sure, it's going to be an issue. TLTs have the same effect, as did Trip Jumps. There are probably more ways to deal with Kylo than others, though.

Yep, it was interesting to fly the matchup for the first couple of times, but not the most fun I have had flying. Granted I had been flying Parattanni for a couple months straight, which is a very high decision density list, which I find fun.

Old deck vs new deck is definitely an interesting debate... the previous round I nearly 100-0 my opponent (incidentally also RAC+Kylo, and Vader Pilot as the 2nd ship) because I PS0'ed his PS10 RAC, and then repeatedly blinded him with the 2nd deck. So his RAC, with the new damage deck, I think only got one shot.

I was flying:

RAC + Predator + Kylo + Gunner + Hotshot Copilot + EU

Vader + title + ATC + Crackshot + EU

It's not an optimal squad. I half expected to go 1-2, and ended up 2-1. The last game was close and could have gone either way -- I only had 2 HP on RAC at the end, and ArbitraryNerd could have actually run away and won on points at time even though he was at a 7HP to 3 HP disadvantage (60 minute rounds on weeknights). I flew 1HP Vader off the board trying to escape Wampa's unblockable Palp crit, but Wampa probably would have gotten him anyway.

Duncan Howard has the best Kylo build figured out, I think. He posted it on the NOVA Facebook page:

RAC + Predator + Dauntless + Kylo + Gunner + Vader + EU

Carnor Jax + PtL + title + Hull + AT

It's way more well-rounded, but Carnor becomes the tricky part.

1 minute ago, MajorJuggler said:

Duncan Howard has the best Kylo build figured out, I think. He posted it on the NOVA Facebook page:

RAC + Predator + Dauntless + Kylo + Gunner + Vader + EU

Carnor Jax + PtL + title + Hull + AT

It's way more well-rounded, but Carnor becomes the tricky part.

Love the list, but I don't trust Carnor at all. I LOVE that he's the answer to tokens in place of Hot Shot, and it makes sense, but Carnor has traditionally folded like wet paper for me, and that's WHEN supported by Palp.

Then again... Judicious use of flanking and blinded pilot could potentially mean better defense for Carnor than even Palp can provide.

It's worth looking at, if I really wanted to spend another series of matches running a Decimator, expecting to encounter more Decimators...

First off, is anyone else tempted to put this image over the ISYTDS card?

"You call that the Dark Side?"

Second, I think RAC isn't the optimal ride for Kylo crew - then again, I'm against 2-ship lists and by using a Deci you're forced into a 2-ship list.

My suggestion? Scimitar Squadron TIE/Shuttle, and nothing else.

1) At 19 points, it's perfect for four-ship builds.

2) Kylo (crew) requires an action and does not require arc - perfect for a low-PS blocker ship.

3) It draws target priority like no one's business, and putting it on a low-priority shuttle messes with their choices.

4) It LOOKS like a soft target, and does go down in a turn or two of concentrated fire - but those turns are ones where their guns aren't pointed at your real threats, and Kylo's value goes down the longer the game stretches on.

The list I've been pondering has a mix of old and new friends - all first Order. Quickdraw with Rage/E-Baffles, Omega Leader with Juke/Comm Relay, Omega Ace with Push the Limit. It has a perfect early/middle/late curve (QD races in to erase their late-game threat or trade to weaken their One Big Ship, Kylo + OA don't so much fish for crits as force them down the opponent's throat, and then OL does her 1v1 thang.) It only comes to 99 points, so there's a touch of flexibility there - TIE mkII on QD, or Inspiring Recruit on the TIE/shuttle?

The one game I've played it in had some surprising notes - OA is absolutely brutal against no-AGI high hull ships. Putting 3 crits into a Ghost and flipping Direct Hit, Major Explosion into Weapon Failure, and Shaken Pilot?

The Scimitar Kylo (crew) also has potential as a partner to RAC with something else - bare-bones RAC (VI+EU) with the Scimitar leaves 30 points, which is enough for a creative player to work with what with all those Imp budget aces.