I think Kylo scales similarly to Palpatine but for the opposition. He's the strongest card in the game against dengaroo (basically a 1 ship list) and almost a blank card against 8ball swarm. As stated above lists with multiple reasonably good ships and no key pieces will be fine, and 4-5 ship lists sound great. Honestly 3 ships may be enough assuming they're all approximately equally as good since most Kylo carriers will melt under concentrated fire.

Scum mindlink seems as strong or stronger than ever, imperial triple ace or miniswarm builds seem good, and rebel bombs or things with bwings seem good.

Kylo also has a weird situation where Kylo lists are best suited against... Other low ship count Kylo lists. This might lead to the meta not melting too hard because of him.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The trouble with swarms right now is that they get thoroughly shut out by other things in the meta. A big Rey will blat a TIE a round, pretty reliably, and shrug off much of the damage from 2-die shots, just like Brobots do, so bringing a swarm is a touch risky when she's around.

I think that's why you want to look at around 3-5 ships, probably split between quality and mass, but I'm not sure. Decimators are perfectly manageable with most of the ships in the game, so you can engage it with your expendables while keeping the ace in reserve, or engaging the wingman. Swarms vs Bots/Rey is bad, but 1-2 aces with swarm blockers that stop the Bots/Rey from turning around can get the job done.

You guys realize that the Decimator only has 4 Shields, and if he is using Kylo then he isn't boosting.

Right, RIGHT?

That means all guns on target and Decimators still crumble like wet paper, especially vs. alpha strike lists.

Just now, Keffisch said:

You guys realize that the Decimator only has 4 Shields, and if he is using Kylo then he isn't boosting.

Right, RIGHT?

That means all guns on target and Decimators still crumble like wet paper, especially vs. alpha strike lists.

Possibly but also that Kylo on RAC is going to be somewhere between PS8 and PS10 so one of those ships in an alpha strike list probably won't be shooting first turn.

I'm unsurprised by the OP's assessment of the card. It was identified by the community pretty much as soon as it was spoiled. Yes, we can talk about builds that do well against it but it does seem like this card will push a lot of good builds out of a fairly diverse meta and that would be a massive shame.

As with so many things recently, he's sadly going to have his highest impact against low agility Rebels.

Swarms are my niche. The more ships i got the better i play. Both because its harder to get f'd by a bad roll when you roll like 6 times but also because its difficult to never have a shot somewhere, and a lot of ships exist purely because they can resist getting shot at at all.

5 minutes ago, asters89 said:

Possibly but also that Kylo on RAC is going to be somewhere between PS8 and PS10 so one of those ships in an alpha strike list probably won't be shooting first turn.

I'm unsurprised by the OP's assessment of the card. It was identified by the community pretty much as soon as it was spoiled. Yes, we can talk about builds that do well against it but it does seem like this card will push a lot of good builds out of a fairly diverse meta and that would be a massive shame.

Thats why I am very interested in the new VASSAL league season. Best case is Kylo puts a dampener on Dengaroo and three ship lists while having trouble with 4+ ship lists that have been extinct. That would be a good effect on the meta. Worst case...well, we have seen worse I think. And I strongly believe that a Ysard-less Decimator will be manageable.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

As with so many things recently, he's sadly going to have his highest impact against low agility Rebels.

Yes and no. As others mentioned Dengaroo is crippeled by this card. Especially when you consider that the Decimator doesn't care about Zuckuss at all! Party Bossk is another ship that comes to mind. Rebels on the other hand always can have Biggs to soak Kylo away from the more important ships and they have the stress controll to prevent Kylos actions.

So don't fall for doom and gloom, Kylo won't ruin the game and might even have a positive effect.

Surprised that I have not seen "Draw Their Fire" discussed much or at all in these Kylo threads. A green squaddie with DtF and Determination as a wingman makes any ship absolutely immune to Kylo.

Just now, gamblertuba said:

Surprised that I have not seen "Draw Their Fire" discussed much or at all in these Kylo threads. A green squaddie with DtF and Determination as a wingman makes any ship absolutely immune to Kylo.

I've mentioned it, personally. Biggs and two DTF Regenners is an annoying list that basically ignores Kylo.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I've mentioned it, personally. Biggs and two DTF Regenners is an annoying list that basically ignores Kylo.

Will we see more MILF (Mom's I'd Like to Fly) Moustache lists? Norra (PTL, Kyle, R5P9, title), Shara (DtF, WeapEng, R2D2, title) and Biggs

Most on the posts here are missing the point of what I originally stated. Kylo may have an impact in the meta or he may not. Time will tell on that one. The point of the original post was how massively unenjoyable games against him are if you don't have something setup to counter him. It doesn't even feel like the same game because basically none of your choices matter.

5 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

If Kylo worries you so much....

Advanced Homing Bobba Fett...

You won't be getting that off for 3 turns because you'll be blinded twice.

Ok I get that most of your OP was about the NPE aspect, but you did also say this:

11 hours ago, MenaceNsobriety said:

I know a great many people were saying the sky is falling when it comes to Kylo. I thought he would be good but not insanely meta defining. Boy was I wrong about that one.

So you can't really blame people for discussing the meta element of it.

Also, if you were only inviting comments on how fun or not it was in your game, what sort of responses were you after?

Because you say there is nothing you can do to stop it with the list you played... so the next logical steps presumably must be to discuss other lists that it doesn't affect to the same degree and how prevalent said unfun list will be (and therefore how many more unfun games will result)?

You said "I thought he would be good, but not meta-defining[...]boy was I wrong!". That is a statement about meta at the very beginning of the post.

Wether or not he is enjoyable to play against I cannot tell not having played against it. I heavily doubt he will make me feel like my choices don't matter, I expect the game to be a tense trying to force boosts so Kylo can't be used while still doing enough damage. The part where this gets frstrating? as FGD says, the PWT, not Kylo, but then again, RACs ability only works at range 1-2, so at least that aspect can be avoided.

20 minutes ago, asters89 said:

Ok I get that most of your OP was about the NPE aspect, but you did also say this:

So you can't really blame people for discussing the meta element of it.

Also, if you were only inviting comments on how fun or not it was in your game, what sort of responses were you after?

Because you say there is nothing you can do to stop it with the list you played... so the next logical steps presumably must be to discuss other lists that it doesn't affect to the same degree and how prevalent said unfun list will be (and therefore how many more unfun games will result)?

Fair enough. You are right. That is the next logical step in the conversation. I believe Kylo will have a big impact on the meta at first then people will start bringing lists to counter him. After that he will probably settle in to the pock-paper-scissors element of the game. I can't really understand why they would make a something that if you don't bring counters for you auto lose. That is not good for list diversity. They clearly stated that the U-boat nerf was because it severely limited what you could play and have a chance to win. Then they release a card that will make most of the ships brought back in unplayable again unless built with a specific upgrade.

5 minutes ago, MenaceNsobriety said:

Fair enough. You are right. That is the next logical step in the conversation. I believe Kylo will have a big impact on the meta at first then people will start bringing lists to counter him. After that he will probably settle in to the pock-paper-scissors element of the game. I can't really understand why they would make a something that if you don't bring counters for you auto lose. That is not good for list diversity. They clearly stated that the U-boat nerf was because it severely limited what you could play and have a chance to win. Then they release a card that will make most of the ships brought back in unplayable again unless built with a specific upgrade.

This I completely agree with. It seems blindingly obvious that this will have huge impact on higher PS ships with lower agility/less tokens and I can easily see them being pushed out of the meta. I hope it turns out not to be the case, but I'm extremely surprised that this wasn't picked up in the design and testing.

Just now, asters89 said:

This I completely agree with. It seems blindingly obvious that this will have huge impact on higher PS ships with lower agility/less tokens and I can easily see them being pushed out of the meta. I hope it turns out not to be the case, but I'm extremely surprised that this wasn't picked up in the design and testing.

That is exactly what I kept coming back to last night when talking to my opponent after the game. Did they even play test the card at all? It took us one game to see how stupid IWSYTDS is but they released it anyway. The designers must really dislike the trend toward 2 ship lists.

The first impression isn't always correct.

Dial?

2 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Dial?

Huh...sooo...any 2-hull ship could be Direct Hit one-shotted? Should I pack up Corran, Jake and Tycho?

Just now, gennataos said:

Huh...sooo...any 2-hull ship could be Direct Hit one-shotted? Should I pack up Corran, Jake and Tycho?

PILOT crit only

so two-shotted

It's the Ghost with a hard stop instead of a 5-K, basically.

It's possible that the only build that really matters will be the cheapest, like a Lothal Rebel equivalent. Starkiller Pilot, FCS, maybe Agent Kallus if you're feeling fruity, push it out the door for the lowest cost possible.

Just now, gennataos said:

Huh...sooo...any 2-hull ship could be Direct Hit one-shotted? Should I pack up Corran, Jake and Tycho?

No it's only pilot crits. Any 2 hull ship is in trouble though because your shields are useless

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

PILOT crit only

so two-shotted

Reading comprehension fail FTL.