Hello all....feeling sad...

I have all the add on`s for this amazing game,all ready to be played. All i wish to do is start with mission one at the mansion and to play it though twice before starting mission 2. Very simple play two games, see how different they play out and move on to the next adventure.

I have play the first easy mission 5 times now, and only completed it once because no mastermind puzzle came up. right next my typing is the board all ready to play on but the master puzzle has popped up. The building is ablaze in flames and I`m trying to get stop the horrors and win. But now I`m stuck... 21 guesses and its doing my brain in. I tried online mastermind but was worse... "each colour is a number" so its like 1 is green, but then its a piece also..!!!! number, colour,shape... I`m 48 quite clever but my brain cannot do this puzzle full stop.

So what now,i wasted a few hours over 2 saves over this week of 7 days with it on my desk. Now i have to put it all away now and not return to this game until A. a programme just for this puzzle is made for me to use. B. FF allows us to opt out of the puzzle/s and maybe just give me the choice please. I cannot try and learn this type of puzzle. I`m dealing with my life and work load and cannot spend days or weeks trying out to learn.

I love this board game,but the App part is stopping me playing it.............

If any body from FF are on the board, please I cannot be the only one...?

Hey soulman,

I know that the Mastermind puzzles are the hardest out of any of the interactive puzzles they have. I know it's not a simple read, but the Wikipedia entry gives a little insight into how you might be able to teach yourself how to think it through.

Wikipedia on Mastermind

Then you can test things out here,

Mastermind Online

I wish that I could say that this will solve your conundrum, but at least it might give you some insight. The Mastermind puzzles are the trickiest part of anything we always encounter when playing! GL

I think its a valid request to be able to not have puzzles that lessen your enjoyment of the game. They could just replace it with the function of roll observation, enter number of success and ocne you accumulate enough, it completes. That wouldn't be terribly hard to accomplish.

That being said, I feel its the only puzzle that is actually challenging since you do not start with all the information.

Lock puzzles: I can map out all the moves I need to make before I start the puzzle in 60 seconds. I don't find this a challenge at all.

Slide puzzles: A little more complex than lock puzzles, especially a circuit board one I had to solve over the weekend. That being said, I can usually map these out in a few minutes (that circuit board was really hard).

Code puzzles: This is the only one going in that I cannot figure out the solution for before moving a piece. I like that you have to make deductions/educated guesses to probe the puzzle for the correct solution.

Thank you Jobu for the kindess.. today i got 3 stars and 2 clues. The learn to play book on page 18 says a star is a correct piece in the right spot. But does not tell me what spots there are... I need to see if anybody on youtube has a video play though on it. Until then it stays in the box ;-(

Soulman,

maybe this could help

A = Number of elder signs in the result
B = Number of magnifying glasses in the result

1. Start by guessing 11111.
2. The number of symbols you see in the result (A+B) is the number of 1s in the solution.
3. For your next guess, keep that number of 1s and change all the rest of the digits to 2. Now, check the symbols. The amount of symbols you see (A+B) when compared to Step 2 tells the number of 2s in the answer.
4. Make a guess that has the right number of 1s and 2s in the answer. Then fill in the rest of the places with 3s. You can try to change the position of the numbers you know are present to try to nail down their spot, if you know they are wrong.
5. Continue until A+B is equal to the number of items in the solution. Now you know what all the numbers are (but some or all could be in the wrong place). Look at your previous guesses to try to figure out what goes where. At this point, there are probably not many possibilities left.


Example:

@ = number in right place
O = number in solution, not in right place

Guess #1 = 11111 @
There's one symbol in the result, so there is just one 1 in the solution.

Guess #2 = 12222 @O
We have one more symbol in the answer, so there is one 2 in the solution. The 1 is in the wrong place (if it were in the right place, the result would have been @@).

Guess #3 = 31233 OO
No change to the number of symbols, so there are no 3s in the solution. The 1 and 2 are still in the wrong places.

Guess #4 = 44124 @@@O
There are two 4s in the solution because the number of symbols in the result increased by 2. That also means that there must be one 5 in the solution, as all of the other digits have been tried. In addition, one symbol changed from a O to a @, so either the 1 or 2 is correct now, but not both (if both were correct, both of the 4s would be correct too, and the result would be @@@@). So two of the three 4s are in the right position and either the 1 or 2. So the solution contains a 1, a 2, two 4s, and a 5, in some order. So we have a choice: Is the 1 or the 2 right for this guess? Let's assume it is the 1. The 2 can't go fourth, as that's where it was for this guess, so let's try it last.

Guess #5 = 44152 @@OOO
Now only two are right. If the 1 was correct in Guess #4 as we assumed, the 2 would now have to go first, as that is the only position it hasn't been tried. The number would be 24154. But that is not possible, as the result for this guess would be @@@OO, since the second, third, and fourth would be right. So we have to conclude that the 1 was wrong, and the 2 was in the right place (fourth) in Guess #4. The only place the 1 hasn't been tried yet is last. Since two of the first, second, and fifth digits are 4, that means the 4s have to be first and second, and the 5 must go in the middle. The number has to be 44521.

Guess #6: 44521 @@@@@
And the puzzle is solved!

Julia your one smart girl... I will try this but its going to be a few weeks until I`m brave enough to try mission 1 yet again. Until then we hope for a App change just for little old me

Sorry it bummed you so hard. You know, the Mastermind puzzles have been more than a problem for several players. I'm of the opinion (and I'm not the only one here) that if an element ruins the game for you, you should send it to hell and find a different solution. For example: the app doesn't know there's a cap to your puzzle movements, so, you can decide to try Mastermind puzzles until you solve them, without counting actions spent and so on. Your enjoyment of the experience is the only thing that matters here. There are no tournaments, no prizes, no nothing, it's just you and the game

Also: don't buy What Lies Within if you don't like Mastermind puzzles

I have it all...!!!!!

Dang...

As soon as I heard that Mansions 2.0 was introducing Mastermind puzzles, I downloaded a free app for my phone and started practicing. It has 8 colours and it's always do-able in 10 or less steps. It took a few attempts to get my head round it, but Julia's explanation is very good. You need to simultaneously determine which position the correct colours are in as well as what new colours are missing.

I'm tempted to do a step by step sheet with various examples and pitcures, explaining the steps taken to help people out, when I get the time.

cheers

Simon

EDIT: I have written a quick beginner example and uploaded it. Let me know if it's useful and I'll do some more at some point soon.

thanks

Mastermind Puzzles Example 1.pdf

I typed mastermind solver into google and the first thing that came up was this

http://nebupookins.github.io/JS-Mastermind-Solver/

I personally have not had much trouble with these puzzles and I enjoy solving them, but if you are having serious issues, this solver will tell you what to guess.

I do think requesting FFG for the ability to disable puzzles because you don't want to take the time to learn them is a little ridiculous, especially when there are much simpler solutions such as Julia's .

Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition has challenging puzzles? I wish they had said that on the box, or in the rules, or in the reviews, or on BoardGameGeek or perhaps been a part of the the first edition.

You just need some off-line practice. Play some mastermind online.

I devised a nice system where you try each pairs of symbols by putting 1 of one and the rest of the other. It tells which colors are present and if you get less matches than the code length, you know that you have more than 1 of the symbols you put just one in.

It's not mathematically optimal, but easy enough to figure out without pen and paper.

Julia's method is easy and quite efficient. I have never played mastermind before, but after just a few games I am now able to consistently solve an 8 color puzzle in 8 guesses.

Although I don't have a problem solving these puzzles per sé, I feel this kind is out of place in this game - even when they're wearing a different coat, so to speak. When I'm playing MoM I want to solve a real mystery/puzzle, not play Mastermind. But that's just my personal opinion, and opinions sure can differ. :-)

The mystery is the mission itself. The puzzles are meant to consume your resources (time, clue tokens) through utilizing the player skill as a opposed to just character stats.

That's a good observation. But there's more to it. It must be an experience feature, too, or otherwise a prompt to trade in resources for outcome would've done the job just aswell.

You miss my point. The puzzles allow the player to bring their personal expertise/skill with solving puzzles to the game in that resource trade. This make the player accountable to the results. Making it just a prompt turns it into an event that is just imposed on you.

Indeed, i missed that. That makes my previous post pretty redundant. The feature is the one you just described.

I don't mind the puzzles, but then I've seen them with so many different skins on in different games, especially video game RPGs, that they don't faze me. But I do agree that they are weird in a setting like this. They make for a nice logic test outside of pure game mechanics and dice rolling, but it would have been more interesting if they were able to implement mini games that fit the atmosphere more. Like decoding a coded message, or making deductions based on clues gathered through the course of the scenario (unless something like that comes up in a scenario I haven't played yet?)

The last point you made was actually used in a scenario (deduction based on clues)

Indeed - analyzing information and using it to deduce certain things is a key factor in at least 2 scenarios (currently... hopefully more to come!)

Hi its soulman here.... i busy a way from the forum and just came back to see you all adding good points....thanks

Next week i want to do some solo board gaming in, choice is walking dead, thunder birds and MoM2. I think i try mission 2 in the core set,around the docks and see if i can enjoy it without worrying about any puzzles. I have seen some on you tube by players. Would be nice one day to see a video of somebody talking there way though the puzzle and adding advice...

Let us know how it goes

Wait is there like, a problem with the mastermind puzzles, or can he just not solve them?

I've not had a problem with them yet, but I've been playing mastermind for almost 25 years...