When Gideon and Fenn team up and brings another heavy hitter along, how do you tackle that as the imperial player?

Had a team of Gideon, Fenn, Biv and MHD - 19 and the Rebels only lost Fly Solo mission. The other missions didn't even need any tactics as the sheer fire power of Fenn with Rebel elite and under barrel hh4 just made kebab out of everything with Gideon commanding him twice each round. MHD just kept adrenaline stimming gideon up and even with subversive tactics the whole team just where a strain recovery, damage dealing powerhouse. Royal Guard Champion, General Weiss and Darth Vader lasted 1-2 rounds against Biv and Fenn. By the end the team had won every mission but one and was so heavyly decked out with skills and gear that nothing could make a dent in them.

How do you guys tackle teams like these?

One of my favorite combos in the game is Royal Guards and Nexus. They just seem to compliment each other pretty well with bleeds and stuns, and the Nexu's cunning + the RG's sentinel ability gives your stuff pretty good defense. I had a pretty decent phalanx of Royal Guards and Nexus in my last campaign, and it was by far my most successful mission. Actually felt pretty bad for my Rebels in that one.

First off, you should implement a Dev suggested house rule in that if one side loses two story missions in a row, they still get the full rewards. This helps keep the snowball from growing to large as it rolls down the hill.

Gideon and Fenn is by far the most powerful team up in the game, but the fact you were playing subversive tactics should have helped. MHD I guess was off setting your strain abilities. What was your build for ST. It sounds like your team is power gaming and trying their absolute hardest to min/max, so in that case I feel that ST is warranted.. but normally we would suggest nobody goes after it as it can make the game less fun for the other side.

Military Might is also a very effective class, especially in the core set with a ton of Storm Troopers. You can pair this with Imperial Industry and 501st training from the ST blister pack and make your Storm Troopers very efficient (and annoying) killing machines. Imperial Industry is a quest reward from the Means of Production agenda quest:

It is a very, very effective card, especially on Storm Troopers. Imagine being able to dish out three stuns per activation? Or add in that extra damage, or recover damage on your elites who are buffed up through MM. This card is left out of all of my campaigns because I feel it is to strong, perfect for your situation.

What types of units were you using? Were you trying to scale with the threat level and put out Elite Royal Guards? Or were you being efficient and just maximizing your attacks with trooper spam? The most effective strategy is actually the latter, spamming cheap troops will net more wounds than trying to play the powerful ones. Late game they can 1 or 2 shot any unit, so why spend more threat on it? Regular storm troopers are your best friend, hired guns get parting shot, Nexu's are very mobile and can be deployed further away, probe droids can pack a serious punch. But the pound for pound best unit in the game is actually the elite storm trooper, now this can be tricky against such an elite set up, you don't want to have them just get blown up, but at least when they do get blown up they focus their team mates. If you can hide them from the initial attack and get a full attack off on them against one target, utilizing re rolls, don't be surprised if you see 9-12 damage.

More specific to those heroes, make sure you are always spread out to avoid Fenn's blast. Deploy further away and/or save your deployment to coincide with an in game event either deploying more units or whatever helps you. Don't just deploy to keep troopers on the board, make sure they are going to count for something. I would focus down Gideon first, with his low health and a black die he drops like a sack. If they hide him in the back then deploy behind them, this might force them to actually back track away from objectives. If you can't deploy behind, get something mobile out there like a Nexu. Nobody can hide from Nexu's with their speed and pounce. Probe droids are great to, they can hide behind impassable terrain then pop out when needed.

Honestly though against Gideon, your best bet is to stun, stun and stun. A stunned hero can't be commanded to attack, that is the ultimate counter to Gideon. So in that case, Imperial Industry is a must have for you. Regular Royal Guards can get it done, but need to get close to do it, imagine being able to spam cheap storm troopers that are stunning machines. Not super fun for your Rebels, but maybe they will get a little taste of their own medicine I have a rule with my Rebels, if they leave Fenn at home I leave ST at home, if they leave Gideon at home I leave Imperial Industry out of my deck.

And stun isn't the only efficient condition, bleed also can put the hurt on them. If you can bleed out Gideon it forces him to spend one of his actions on removing it, then that means he either has to move or command, or command and move slow depending on his abilities. The worst thing that can happen to them is leaving Gideon behind because then he is just a great target for you to pick off.

Yeah, Fenn is too good and Gideon makes him 2x too good. Reducing his tactical movement to 1 and reducing his blast ability to once per round is probably something that needs to be done. Gideon probably needs a bit of a nerf too.

Your heros are using a very deadly combo of Fenn + Gideon. The fact that they have MHD is icing on the cake because he can remove conditions. Still you want to apply bleed/stun when you can

Fenn is horrible at avoiding stunning because he has black dice. He can only take cover once a round. Nexu and regular RG do work here because Fenn has to come up to attack. NEVER GROUP UP

new ePigs are also solid as they live longer, have a nasty swing back and extra defense. Same with sniping with ePirates. Use Hired guns as cheap fodder that rebels have to waste shots on. Your goal is to stall them out to win

I'm not sure what IP class deck you are using but each one has certain things that it can leverage better

3 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

First off, you should implement a Dev suggested house rule in that if one side loses two story missions in a row, they still get the full rewards. This helps keep the snowball from growing to large as it rolls down the hill.

Gideon and Fenn is by far the most powerful team up in the game, but the fact you were playing subversive tactics should have helped. MHD I guess was off setting your strain abilities. What was your build for ST. It sounds like your team is power gaming and trying their absolute hardest to min/max, so in that case I feel that ST is warranted.. but normally we would suggest nobody goes after it as it can make the game less fun for the other side.

Military Might is also a very effective class, especially in the core set with a ton of Storm Troopers. You can pair this with Imperial Industry and 501st training from the ST blister pack and make your Storm Troopers very efficient (and annoying) killing machines. Imperial Industry is a quest reward from the Means of Production agenda quest:

It is a very, very effective card, especially on Storm Troopers. Imagine being able to dish out three stuns per activation? Or add in that extra damage, or recover damage on your elites who are buffed up through MM. This card is left out of all of my campaigns because I feel it is to strong, perfect for your situation.

What types of units were you using? Were you trying to scale with the threat level and put out Elite Royal Guards? Or were you being efficient and just maximizing your attacks with trooper spam? The most effective strategy is actually the latter, spamming cheap troops will net more wounds than trying to play the powerful ones. Late game they can 1 or 2 shot any unit, so why spend more threat on it? Regular storm troopers are your best friend, hired guns get parting shot, Nexu's are very mobile and can be deployed further away, probe droids can pack a serious punch. But the pound for pound best unit in the game is actually the elite storm trooper, now this can be tricky against such an elite set up, you don't want to have them just get blown up, but at least when they do get blown up they focus their team mates. If you can hide them from the initial attack and get a full attack off on them against one target, utilizing re rolls, don't be surprised if you see 9-12 damage.

More specific to those heroes, make sure you are always spread out to avoid Fenn's blast. Deploy further away and/or save your deployment to coincide with an in game event either deploying more units or whatever helps you. Don't just deploy to keep troopers on the board, make sure they are going to count for something. I would focus down Gideon first, with his low health and a black die he drops like a sack. If they hide him in the back then deploy behind them, this might force them to actually back track away from objectives. If you can't deploy behind, get something mobile out there like a Nexu. Nobody can hide from Nexu's with their speed and pounce. Probe droids are great to, they can hide behind impassable terrain then pop out when needed.

Honestly though against Gideon, your best bet is to stun, stun and stun. A stunned hero can't be commanded to attack, that is the ultimate counter to Gideon. So in that case, Imperial Industry is a must have for you. Regular Royal Guards can get it done, but need to get close to do it, imagine being able to spam cheap storm troopers that are stunning machines. Not super fun for your Rebels, but maybe they will get a little taste of their own medicine I have a rule with my Rebels, if they leave Fenn at home I leave ST at home, if they leave Gideon at home I leave Imperial Industry out of my deck.

And stun isn't the only efficient condition, bleed also can put the hurt on them. If you can bleed out Gideon it forces him to spend one of his actions on removing it, then that means he either has to move or command, or command and move slow depending on his abilities. The worst thing that can happen to them is leaving Gideon behind because then he is just a great target for you to pick off.

This seems like an excellent strategy. The Imperial Industry is a great card however I have to draw the agenda card AND win the mission to get it and the Rebels won pretty much everything ^^

The Subversive tactics build was; Prey upon doubt, Savage weaponry, Surgical strike, Heavy Pressure, Exploit weakness, Executioner and Weary target.

At first I was trying to get out more and more tanky units but they died as fast as any other unit. Then I was mostly spamming regular stormtroopers trying to spread them out but they still died like flies. Often they died as soon as I deployed them coz the rebels go first and you know, havoc shot... and gideon commanding Fenn he can just go on a havoc shooting madness

Yes you need to win the mission, but it is a pretty one sided mission for the Imperial imo, as most Agenda ones are. You will need to get a bit lucky with the draw and probably won't get to it until you are a few missions in and have enough influence, but it is a game changer at any point in the campaign. One use cards can also be great insurance for winning this mission. My Rebels only chose to do it once and I dominated them in it, since then they reluctantly just let me have it. Yours might need to learn a lesson or they might decide Meh, we don't care, we want this instead. Then free over powered upgrade for you.

If you are planning to play another campaign I would encourage them to try out new heroes, if they are dead set on running Fenn/Gideon again then it doesn't really sound like a fun group to play with unfortunately :/ Once I figure out something is so over powered I generally try to stay away from it to keep things challenging for both sides. But if you find yourself in the same or similar boat, employ the methods listed above and it should help.

I think your ST build wasn't bad except I would have got No Quarter over Exploit Weakness/Heavy Pressure. Even with MHD feeding strain to people, if you don't have at least one hero with high strain each round to use NQ on I feel like you guys might have played the game wrong. This is again especially powerful paired with Imperial Industry as it gives you that guaranteed surge you need to stun. I haven't played ST since the game came out but I remember going for No Quarter pretty early, even though it is a four cost.

Maybe others can weigh in here but without knowing all the classes you have access to, I'd try Military Might instead and focus on acquiring the 501st and Imperial Industry addons. All of those things combined make all of the regular troopers you gain access to incredibly annoying for your Rebels.

Armored Onslaught from Hoth is also a good choice just for Mortar alone, it might be the most broken Imperial class card in the game imo, it's basically a grenade you can use on any unit once per round. Off the start when they are all bunched up you can generally catch 2-3 together with the potential of 6-9 unmitigated damage right off the hop. Give them a taste of what it is like to play against Fenn's blast

Imperial Industries with regular ST is a game changer. Especially with any of the base class decks since they all have ways to add a surge (exp arms, no quarter, focus and other trooper goodies)

ST is probably the most damaging with Imperial Industries because it's an attachment and you get lots of benefits. Also cloaking on cheap ST groups that they have to deal with is a killer for rebels. RG with 5 speed and reach/auto surge is a stun bot on command.

I crushed Fenn with this combination, he was consistently stunned every turn and bleeding a lot. Gideon would be helpless to do anything with him

(A trick: Self-Destruct a Probe Droid adjacent to Royal Guards.)

17 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

Yes you need to win the mission, but it is a pretty one sided mission for the Imperial imo, as most Agenda ones are. You will need to get a bit lucky with the draw and probably won't get to it until you are a few missions in and have enough influence, but it is a game changer at any point in the campaign. One use cards can also be great insurance for winning this mission. My Rebels only chose to do it once and I dominated them in it, since then they reluctantly just let me have it. Yours might need to learn a lesson or they might decide Meh, we don't care, we want this instead. Then free over powered upgrade for you.

Wait, the rebels can chose not to do the mission and I get the upgrade for free?

I am going to run Twin Shadows expansion next week and I was really into the Mortar card. Seems awesome but right now I am leaning more towards Technological Superiority. The Experimental Arms and Arc blasters on normal troopers seem really nice to have the ability to AoE stun. Paird with Trandoshan Hunters and Nexus with bleed it seem to beable to shut down characters.

I'm sure Albert can quote the official rules guide faster than I can explain this but yes when you get to the side missions you draw two from the deck, they have to choose one of those two, that is when you play you're already purchased agenda mission. Now they have to choose between the three, if they don't choose yours, you get it for free. This works for all agenda missions (except forced, which are generally four cost not three I believe, those have to be played). See the text at the bottom of the card:

Omg, I have been doing this all wrong and played all agenda missions as forced missions...

The minicampaigns do not have side mission deck nor agenda missions.

(Note that the reward is given after the mission is resolved in all cases. And note that if the rebels have no side mission slots left, you don't want to buy any agenda side missions, they are worthless after the last side mission slot.)

There are only 3 forced missions in the game, two from the core agenda sets and one from mission results. The rest are agenda side missions.

3 minutes ago, a1bert said:

The minicampaigns do not have side mission deck nor agenda missions.

(Note that the reward is given after the mission is resolved in all cases. And note that if the rebels have no side mission slots left, you don't want to buy any agenda side missions, they are worthless after the last side mission slot.)

There are only 3 forced missions in the game, two from the core agenda sets and one from mission results. The rest are agenda side missions.

Omg! How did I miss this? You can totally deny the rebels their side missions this way!

And there in lies the power of the agenda missions. Even if they pick it and win, you still robbed them of a great reward from their own mission. I generally throw 2 agenda missions at my team per campaign, one early and one later on. They tend to bite on one, depending on the reward. They passed on Greedo in our latest campaign and he has had the killing shot and mortar for two missions back to back since lol, both due to his 5 speed getting him where he needed to be.

Hah! This I must remember when we play a full size campaign next time. It's Twin Shadows now and Bespin Gambit after that. Just ordered Jabbas realm so either that or Return to Hoth afterwards.

I havent gotten into many villain packs yet. Which ones have good agenda decks?

This site is great for looking through what comes in each pack and their own opinion on what packs are good, but better to do your own research imo:

http://cards.boardwars.eu/

Off the top of my head the RGC has a great agenda set, Crimson Empire, and I think I remember liking the Hired Guns one as well.