17 hours ago, theaficionado said:

They're great, don't get me wrong, and I do agree that Run for Cover will, more often than not, entirely negate an attack. The issue I have them with is:

1. They're reactive, not proactive. I work on a principle of cards that help me kill my opponent > cards that prevent my opponent from killing me.

2. While both of these are definitely powerful cards, I can't see there being room in my command deck for them plus all of the other cards I'd want to run. I'd be curious to see a list where you manage to fit in all the Hunter goodies + all the standard staples + Run for Cover and On the Lam.

Prove me wrong!

I don't see how you can say Run for Cover is in the same space as On the Lam. Run for Cover needs to be declared on attack and you are only removing 1 dice (avg ~2 damage). The best it can do is remove a blue dice during a high range shot to try and make it miss. Many figures are attacking with 3-4 dice these days so Run for Cover only cuts some of the damage

On the Lam is used during the attack before modifiers. This lets you see the full roll (hi dodge) AND the opponents needs to play his modifier cards before you use On the Lam. This can easily bait him into playing like assassinate or any of the new hunter cards and then you play On the Lam to completely avoid the attack.

You can compare On the Lam to playing an auto dodge. Moving to break LOS or getting out of range is very easy on the current maps

8 hours ago, theaficionado said:

It does make a lot of sense that her low health is now an issue with all these surprise damage cards out. She's pretty reliant on recover to survive, and considering that Assassinate alone is almost half her health, I can see the issue.

I'd say she was worse before in the sense that battefield leadership works better on bigger targets and was often overkill on troopers. Also, with the average trooper list having about 12 figures in it, you really needed some bodies of your own just for objectives/terminals/ etc. Now, all that has changed a bit in her favor, but now between the new power cards and weequays, white dice pretty much suck and she can get one shot if they have assassinate or tools for the job handy. Watched a leia get attacked by a weequay with wild attack, she rolled TWO dodges, then had to reroll one into something insignificant, then heightened reflexes and she was dead lol. Not as rare as it seems. Would've been even easier if that wild attack was just tools. And these scum lists tend to have AT LEAST 2 of the power cards at any one time in hand since they draw so many. People will do this sort of thing to jedi luke as well, but at least it takes at least 2-3 nasty shots.

26 minutes ago, frotes said:

I don't see how you can say Run for Cover is in the same space as On the Lam. Run for Cover needs to be declared on attack and you are only removing 1 dice (avg ~2 damage). The best it can do is remove a blue dice during a high range shot to try and make it miss. Many figures are attacking with 3-4 dice these days so Run for Cover only cuts some of the damage

On the Lam is used during the attack before modifiers. This lets you see the full roll (hi dodge) AND the opponents needs to play his modifier cards before you use On the Lam. This can easily bait him into playing like assassinate or any of the new hunter cards and then you play On the Lam to completely avoid the attack.

You can compare On the Lam to playing an auto dodge. Moving to break LOS or getting out of range is very easy on the current maps

On the Lam is better, but it's not like you can play two of them. Run for Cover will often negate an attack by hosing the accuracy though. Especially with hidden.

On the lam is before the attacker plays modifiers, do before assassinate etc.

29 minutes ago, frotes said:

This lets you see the full roll (hi dodge) AND the opponents needs to play his modifier cards before you use On the Lam. This can easily bait him into playing like assassinate or any of the new hunter cards and then you play On the Lam to completely avoid the attack.

Are you sure it works that way? My reading of the card was that you would need to decide before the opponent does anything with the natural roll (including playing command cards). I could be wrong of course.

"

10 minutes ago, bobbywhiskey said:

On the lam is before the attacker plays modifiers, do before assassinate etc.

I disagree.

The card says: Use while defending, before the attacker applies modifiers, to interrupt to perform a move.

Apply modifiers is Step 4. Attacker has to play their modifier cards before going into this step to have their symbols count. Then defender plays their cards before Step 4.

Attacker needs to play cards like Assassinate before step 4 to have those symbols count. As a defender, I can play On the Lam before going into Step 4.

It's a similar reason to why zillo is so good. If attacker has exact damage to kill a figure and passes playing CC before apply modifiers, I can choose to zillo for +1 block and they have no chance to play something like positional advantage. If they play positional advantage beforehand, I just choose not to zillo

On the Lam has to be played after all rerolls are done, but before any other cards or abilities add/subtract damage/bocks/evades/accuracy (except those that apply when you declare the attack) etc... So yes it does have to be played before assassinate, so it isn't good for drawing that out of their hand. But what it does do is keep you from wasting it if you happen to roll a dodge result, or if your opponent whiffs on range. You can also use it to gauge if your going to die or survive (again barring card play like assassinate) before playing OTL.

The other interesting thing it does is if you have it in hand you can push your smugglers out into the open and forward - making them a bigger threat and generally more effective, knowing that you can block one critical attack on one of them.

the card says " apply modifiers " not play modifiers

Modifiers are applied during step 4. Attacker applies any symbols from dice and cards, then defender does their. So any cards that would contribute to the pool of symbols, needs to be played before that

On the Lam is played before step 4 (Apply modifiers)

Ok I'm not so sure now. My original understanding was that Step 4 is just a phase where all the symbols are counted and there is no card playing. Similar to step 2 (roll dice).

But maybe it's intended that all steps, you can play cards and the effects of the step only happen after that opportunity and at the end of the step.

Ok after talking to some people and looking at https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1631857/ability-resolution-order-during-attacks

I will say that my original conception of how step 4 operated was wrong. I thought it checked for everything at the start of the step and then went to step 5. Instead, attacker then defender should have a chance to play CC/Abilities to the "pool" and then the step is moved pass and modifiers will no longer apply

Anyways, back to On the Lam, it is still good for knowing the dice before playing it (dodge). Or if someone used tough luck on you

4 hours ago, frotes said:

Ok after talking to some people and looking at https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1631857/ability-resolution-order-during-attacks

I will say that my original conception of how step 4 operated was wrong. I thought it checked for everything at the start of the step and then went to step 5. Instead, attacker then defender should have a chance to play CC/Abilities to the "pool" and then the step is moved pass and modifiers will no longer apply

Anyways, back to On the Lam, it is still good for knowing the dice before playing it (dodge). Or if someone used tough luck on you

So with this understanding, the attacker would have to play his cc's first (assassinate, etc) during this step 4. Then the defender has the opportunity to play on the lam? Or zillo discard?

Attacker has to initiate his power cards. Defender can respond to them.

Can the attacker then play another in response to the defender zillo discarding for example? So now I play positioning advantage because you added that block? Or is there no window for an attacker response to defender cc's/abilities?

And on top of that, zillo's exhaust for pierce negation doesn't happen until the "spend surges" part of the attack later in response to the attacker choosing what his surges go towards.

Lam says it needs to be played before Attacker Applies Modifiers. So this means before he plays CC or uses abilities that might do that. Since Attacker has priority during each step, you would have to play On the Lam during Step 3 (rerolls) as the defender

And no, attacker can not respond to something the defender does. This isn't like mtg or other card games that pass back and forth. Attack does all their effects and they resolve, then passes priority. Defender does all their effects, then passes. Go to next step

Zillo is special because "reduce pierce" isn't specifically applied in any step. Same with Heavy armor. So it can be used at any point and it will work, up to step 7 when damage is calculated.

Discarding for +1 block on zillo comes after the attacker plays anything that might increase their damage/surges. So if they have exact damage to kill a figure showing, then pass.. you can +1 block zillo to save your guy and they can't do anything (there are only a few cards that could get pass this)

1 hour ago, frotes said:

Lam says it needs to be played before Attacker Applies Modifiers. So this means before he plays CC or uses abilities that might do that. Since Attacker has priority during each step, you would have to play On the Lam during Step 3 (rerolls) as the defender.

It's always hard for me to remember playing cc's doesn't work like mtg.

So do attackers have to ask "are you going to play on the lam, before we move on?"

Or would playing on the lam as an interrupt (which is in the card text) when the attacker declares "I'm playing assassinate" be allowed? If so I would argue the attacker gets to keep his card in this instance (unless the lam move doesn't get the defender out of los) similar to how the person who takes initiative gets their exhausted deployment back if take initiative gets negated.

If playing on the lam is not allowed like this, then we could get into some interesting arguments from people in a game "they pushed through the attack steps so fast I couldn't even do it"...

And as much as I like the way you described zillo discard, I think that's not the way it's been nailed down in another thread. The card is super frustrating and needs an FAQ spelling out exactly when it can/can't be used.

19 minutes ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

It's always hard for me to remember playing cc's doesn't work like mtg.

So do attackers have to ask "are you going to play on the lam, before we move on?"

Or would playing on the lam as an interrupt (which is in the card text) when the attacker declares "I'm playing assassinate" be allowed? If so I would argue the attacker gets to keep his card in this instance (unless the lam move doesn't get the defender out of los) similar to how the person who takes initiative gets their exhausted deployment back if take initiative gets negated.

If playing on the lam is not allowed like this, then we could get into some interesting arguments from people in a game "they pushed through the attack steps so fast I couldn't even do it"...

And as much as I like the way you described zillo discard, I think that's not the way it's been nailed down in another thread. The card is super frustrating and needs an FAQ spelling out exactly when it can/can't be used.

Before modifiers are rerolls, so attacker must ask, "do you have any rerolls" before playing modifiers. This would be the defender's chance to play on the lam.

16 hours ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

And as much as I like the way you described zillo discard, I think that's not the way it's been nailed down in another thread. The card is super frustrating and needs an FAQ spelling out exactly when it can/can't be used.

That is how it is used tho. Attacker applies modifiers first until they pass. Then defender does the same until they pass. After that, it goes to step 5

There is no bouncing back and forth and responding to other's cards (except negation and such). So if an attacker was showing 5 damage to your eST and they pass on playing modifiers, the defender can discard a card to zillo to add 1 block. Then the game will move onto step 5. The attacker will not have a chance in this instance to see zillo being used and then go back and play something like positional advantage, this opportunity to play modifiers has already passed.

2 hours ago, frotes said:

That is how it is used tho. Attacker applies modifiers first until they pass. Then defender does the same until they pass. After that, it goes to step 5

There is no bouncing back and forth and responding to other's cards (except negation and such). So if an attacker was showing 5 damage to your eST and they pass on playing modifiers, the defender can discard a card to zillo to add 1 block. Then the game will move onto step 5. The attacker will not have a chance in this instance to see zillo being used and then go back and play something like positional advantage, this opportunity to play modifiers has already passed.

Ok, I thought you were trying to say that zillo discard could come after step 4. That's what wasn't sounding like what I'd read in the other threads.

I get the not bouncing back and forth, I know it intellectually but often in games I'm sure me/my opponent fall back into "well, in response to that, I'll add in Assassinate" when we shouldn't. It's so ingrained kind of like missing your triggers for a new character - like I missed blaise's trigger all the time to hide someone.

Cool - so to be clear, zillo discard can only be used in step 4 at the very end because the defender gets last window of play? (On the Lam has to be played during the defenders window for rerolls in step 3?) And zillo exhaust can be used all the way up to right before step 7? And no cc's can be played during step 5 - spending surges - by anyone? (are there any that can be played during this step?)

On a side note, it'd be a cool resource if someone made a list of the attacking/defend cc's that labeled the steps of attacking they could be played during I might take a crack at it sometime but would need some feedback.

If there is a card that gives you a surge ability, it can be played in step 5 and you can immediately spend a surge to use it. There are a few of these exhaust-to-gain-surge-abilities in the campaign.

There isn't such a command card, but there is one you can play during step 5: Hunter Protocol (trigger the same surge ability upto twice).

1 hour ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

On a side note, it'd be a cool resource if someone made a list of the attacking/defend cc's that labeled the steps of attacking they could be played during I might take a crack at it sometime but would need some feedback.

We don't have signatures anymore, otherwise pointing to mine would've sufficed. (Missing a few, and a few fixes pending.) Edit: updated the rest of Jabba's Realm command cards (cc).

Ability Resolution Order During Attacks

1 hour ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

Cool - so to be clear, zillo discard can only be used in step 4 at the very end because the defender gets last window of play? (On the Lam has to be played during the defenders window for rerolls in step 3?)

And zillo exhaust can be used all the way up to right before step 7?

And no cc's can be played during step 5 - spending surges - by anyone? (are there any that can be played during this step?)

On a side note, it'd be a cool resource if someone made a list of the attacking/defend cc's that labeled the steps of attacking they could be played during I might take a crack at it sometime but would need some feedback.

Yep exactly. You can play cards during step 5 but there are only a select few that would actually do something

Also a1bert has made such a resource already (which just linked) and it's awesome

I forgot A1bert had that and that it had cc's in it. I rarely get over to the BGG forums.