Hey everyone!

After fighting my way through an Imperial Blockade (a.k.a resolving internet issues), Rebel High Command is back in action with an analysis of the Weequay Pirate!

https://rebelhighcommand.wordpress.com/2017/02/01/jabbas-realm-review-weequay-pirates/

Enjoy!

While a very nice overview, I feel that a player of your stature could provide lesser, more casual, guys like me with some insight as to why or when you'd pick the pirates over the HKs? Same goes for the Gamorrean article. I felt that I needed some comparison to the Tusken Raiders. What I'm trying to say, is that I think you have the ability to go deeper than the %-numbers

Thanks for the feedback!

Now that I know that's the kind of thing that people may be looking for, I'll be sure to include more of it!

HKs are a close thing. You're netting one point of build but awarding the same amount of points to your opponent (under the current scoring rules) if you play the pirates. HKs average slightly less damage (I believe) but have a higher cap, and can shoot from further away. They also have the benefit of being able to reroll both an attack and a defense die. Given that their dice are a lot swingier, they benefit more off this reroll than the pirates do.

However, in spite of the reroll, the swingy attack can really penalise you. Weequay Pirate attacks are absurdly consistent, especially when coupled with their natural ability to hide. Hidden is also far more useful than long range in maps with tight corners, where skirmishes are more likely to happen around corners than down long corridors.

If you've got the points to spare, HKs may just get the nod over the pirate, but it's a close thing. That said, as more and more powerful one cost cards get released, every single point you're able to save matters that much more. Being able to include Devious Scheme where you previously couldn't will be a big thing.

As for the Gamorreans vs Tuskens, I think the piggies get the nod. For a point extra, you get way more survivability against most of the popular teams (guns are everywhere), and you also gain Reach (which I think is far superior to Tusken Cycler). Pigs also benefit off Focus more (Cleave 2 is noticeable, Cleave 1 tends not to be) and come with an extra trait (which is not always relevant, but hey, it's not bad). Tuskens do get Jundland Terror, but realistically only if you're playing the Bantha as well (and I think there are better builds of the Bantha that don't feature Tuskens at all!). That said, if you really need to save that point...

I'd probably just go for the Pirates

I'd be happy to hear what you think about it all, and thanks for letting me know what you're after! Happy to provide the type of content you're looking for!

If you want more discussion of the eWeequay vs HKs, we had quite a thread over here

I know the general discussion of Weequay vs HKs. Been joining it too.

I have much the same feeling out the two set of groups. I was mostly happy to see the pirates because I never felt the HKs were very scum-like, but I also felt the Weequays were better. Granted, now your opponent get the same amount of points from them, but the extra HP is imo not insignificant. I always felt the HKs were too fragile and there are few maps where you can really hide them away.

I think the Hide funtion on the eWeequays is very solid too. You might not get to shoot turn one, but moving 4 into position at a far away corner or some such, and Hide seems like a solid opener. If the position is good, you can keep firing and hiding each turn, unless you want to fire and fall back (a skill that I need to learn!). They may in fact combo 'very' well with Gamorreans, as your opponent need to get close to hit them, and can get wacked by the pigs then. I agree on the 1 point. While 1 point often seems insignificant when you compare troops, multiple instances of 1 point does indeed add up and scum has always had some solid Upgrades to use those points on.

I was curious on the Tuskens, when I realised that RG+1dam was better than the RR without any more modifiers. Good point on the Focus though, hadn't considered that. Guarding can be a strong trait as well and yes, the extra beefyness and Reach is awesome - we know that from early days Royal Guard. I agree that Tuskens more or less only have a place with the Bantha, unless you need more close combat than 2x Gamorreans. Might be fun with a Bantha, Beast Tamer, 2x eTuskens, eGamorreans, Jabba and 2 points for upgrades list. In your face.

A key factor in deciding which to use is command cards and points. Both are hunters but pirates are smugglers and HKs are droids. Droids don't offer much atm but that should probably change next wave

the 1 point in deployment cost difference helps a lot, especially if you run two groups. That's a free devious scheme or black market or any number of upgrades

Finally the 1 extra hp of the pirate makes them much harder to 1 shot, a lot of units are looking to do 4-5 damage per 3 dice attack.

ATM I'd give the edge to pirates but the HK's should be getting a nice buff next wave from the new droid stuff

Another great article.

I included HKs in a recent tournament list post-Jabba and reading all this I should have probably used Pirates + Devious Schemes . I really like both of them but just saving 1 point for a great upgrade like Schemes or Black Market probably gives the Pirates a slight edge.

Wild Attack is still probably best paired with the HKs (for extra re-roll insurance). And we've already seen 1-2 Droid-specific command cards from the next wave so there's still plenty of reasons for them to stick around.

Some things I really like about the e weequays that haven't been mentioned. You can use squad swarm with two sets of them. You can't with Hks. You can get more flexibility out of strength in numbers with the e weequays - e weequay/vinto - can't be done with Hks. They can move, prowl, and to the limit to attack still.

Still not sure what I think about stimulants but they can use that while Hks can't. The smuggler keyword does open up some fun stuff and maintains synergy with all the Rodians making hired guns a little better. And getting two points back in your list can be huge. I'm pretty sure it allowed me to get vinto and black market in one I'm really liking. When before I was running two hks.

1 hour ago, nickv2002 said:

Another great article.

I included HKs in a recent tournament list post-Jabba and reading all this I should have probably used Pirates + Devious Schemes . I really like both of them but just saving 1 point for a great upgrade like Schemes or Black Market probably gives the Pirates a slight edge.

Wild Attack is still probably best paired with the HKs (for extra re-roll insurance). And we've already seen 1-2 Droid-specific command cards from the next wave so there's still plenty of reasons for them to stick around.

I too suspect that the HKs will see a huge bump in popularity once they actually have a second trait with relevant command cards.

Thanks for your kind words, Nick! Hope to see you around some more!

1 hour ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

Some things I really like about the e weequays that haven't been mentioned. You can use squad swarm with two sets of them. You can't with Hks. You can get more flexibility out of strength in numbers with the e weequays - e weequay/vinto - can't be done with Hks. They can move, prowl, and to the limit to attack still.

Still not sure what I think about stimulants but they can use that while Hks can't. The smuggler keyword does open up some fun stuff and maintains synergy with all the Rodians making hired guns a little better. And getting two points back in your list can be huge. I'm pretty sure it allowed me to get vinto and black market in one I'm really liking. When before I was running two hks.

Good point with Squad Swarm; it's not a card I use a lot of, so it wasn't something that was at the forefront of my brain. Being able to activate two sets of these guys in a row, especially if they're all hidden after Round 1, would be absolutely insane, and more than enough to take out either a single large unit, or several smaller ones.

I'm not a fan of Stimulants, especially on the Weequays. If I had an action spare, I'd probably just Hide. I like the point you brought up about sharing traits with Greedo and Vinto; having 4-6 smugglers on a team certainly does make it easier to use the command cards. I'm not 100% sold on the smuggler ones as much as I am the hunter ones, but that could change, and it does open up the option of playing a more defensive list. Thanks for reading!

31 minutes ago, theaficionado said:

I too suspect that the HKs will see a huge bump in popularity once they actually have a second trait with relevant command cards.

Thanks for your kind words, Nick! Hope to see you around some more!

Good point with Squad Swarm; it's not a card I use a lot of, so it wasn't something that was at the forefront of my brain. Being able to activate two sets of these guys in a row, especially if they're all hidden after Round 1, would be absolutely insane, and more than enough to take out either a single large unit, or several smaller ones.

I'm not a fan of Stimulants, especially on the Weequays. If I had an action spare, I'd probably just Hide. I like the point you brought up about sharing traits with Greedo and Vinto; having 4-6 smugglers on a team certainly does make it easier to use the command cards. I'm not 100% sold on the smuggler ones as much as I am the hunter ones, but that could change, and it does open up the option of playing a more defensive list. Thanks for reading!

Not sold on smuggler cards?! On the Lam is probably the most broke card in the game (well SoS), and run for cover can often negate an attack as well used properly.

1 minute ago, bobbywhiskey said:

Not sold on smuggler cards?! On the Lam is probably the most broke card in the game (well SoS), and run for cover can often negate an attack as well used properly.

They're great, don't get me wrong, and I do agree that Run for Cover will, more often than not, entirely negate an attack. The issue I have them with is:

1. They're reactive, not proactive. I work on a principle of cards that help me kill my opponent > cards that prevent my opponent from killing me.

2. While both of these are definitely powerful cards, I can't see there being room in my command deck for them plus all of the other cards I'd want to run. I'd be curious to see a list where you manage to fit in all the Hunter goodies + all the standard staples + Run for Cover and On the Lam.

Prove me wrong!

4 minutes ago, bobbywhiskey said:

Not sold on smuggler cards?! On the Lam is probably the most broke card in the game (well SoS), and run for cover can often negate an attack as well used properly.

Those cards help negate individual attacks, but are hardly game breaking. On the Lam costs 3 points and I'm dubious on its value above something like Grenadier , Assassinate , or New Orders . Run for Cover has a better rate at 2 points so I'm more open to it.

Editing a New Orders podcast on all these command cards now.

20 minutes ago, theaficionado said:

They're great, don't get me wrong, and I do agree that Run for Cover will, more often than not, entirely negate an attack. The issue I have them with is:

1. They're reactive, not proactive. I work on a principle of cards that help me kill my opponent > cards that prevent my opponent from killing me.

2. While both of these are definitely powerful cards, I can't see there being room in my command deck for them plus all of the other cards I'd want to run. I'd be curious to see a list where you manage to fit in all the Hunter goodies + all the standard staples + Run for Cover and On the Lam.

Prove me wrong!

Assassinate, on the lam, run for cover, heightened reflexes, tools for the job, negation, tough luck. That's 14 points. Toss in camo, primary target, or draw for vinto or w/e. The deck builds itself out of this wave. They are reactive cards, but they aren't the same trash as slippery target, hide in plain sight etc. They are the most powerful reactive cards, and can often screw over focused attacks. And they are not taking up the prime "proactive" slots. Plenty of points for that.

20 minutes ago, nickv2002 said:

Those cards help negate individual attacks, but are hardly game breaking. On the Lam costs 3 points and I'm dubious on its value above something like Grenadier , Assassinate , or New Orders . Run for Cover has a better rate at 2 points so I'm more open to it.

Editing a New Orders podcast on all these command cards now.

Not sure where you guys started thinking the smuggler stuff and hunter stuff was mutually exclusive. Especially since the best new units in the game have both keywords. Also, On the Lam isn't going to compete with new orders or grenadier for the lists it will be in. Run for Cover will have more competition, but is still worth it.

11 minutes ago, bobbywhiskey said:

Assassinate, on the lam, run for cover, heightened reflexes, tools for the job, negation, tough luck. That's 14 points. Toss in camo, primary target, or draw for vinto or w/e. The deck builds itself out of this wave. They are reactive cards, but they aren't the same trash as slippery target, hide in plain sight etc. They are the most powerful reactive cards, and can often screw over focused attacks. And they are not taking up the prime "proactive" slots. Plenty of points for that.

I'm waiting to see what the 7 0 cost cards you use are. I wasn't contesting that you can use both in the same deck, but I rarely use more than 5 0 costs, maybe 6.

Also, what is the list you use that with? No Bantha, for example?

I'd imagine the list you use the two smuggler cards in is something like:
2 Elite Weequay Pirate
Greedo
Vinto
Jabba
Black Market
+10 Points.

For those 10 points, you could get a Bantha with Beast Tamer, but then you'd need to include at least 2 Jundland Terror, and maybe Crush as well.

If lists tend towards fewer figures with larger attacks, then I'd definitely say the Smuggler cards are worth it.

I'm really curious.

On the lam is my 2nd favorite card right now, right behind heightened reflexes (#1), and right ahead of assassinate (#3). Both OTL and HR are awesome because you can wait to play them until after you see the results of the dice rolls and rerolls. At regionals this year I used OTL to negate a focused & Hidden attack from an elite Royal guard.

The key to bringing it is having the units with the smuggler keyword - if you don't have a lot smugglers its not worth it. But if you have 50% or more of your list as smugglers then OTL is a very valuable card.

2 minutes ago, roman2440 said:

On the lam is my 2nd favorite card right now, right behind heightened reflexes (#1), and right ahead of assassinate (#3). Both OTL and HR are awesome because you can wait to play them until after you see the results of the dice rolls and rerolls. At regionals this year I used OTL to negate a focused & Hidden attack from an elite Royal guard.

The key to bringing it is having the units with the smuggler keyword - if you don't have a lot smugglers its not worth it. But if you have 50% or more of your list as smugglers then OTL is a very valuable card.

I'd agree that it becomes a lot more valuable the more smugglers you have. I think the biggest part of it is actually saving a larger, more valuable smuggler than a random Weequay Pirate. Being able to overextend with a heavy hitter only to pull them back would be awesome. Unfortunately, no such smuggler exists at the moment (not a competitively viable one, anyway).

6 minutes ago, theaficionado said:

I'd agree that it becomes a lot more valuable the more smugglers you have. I think the biggest part of it is actually saving a larger, more valuable smuggler than a random Weequay Pirate. Being able to overextend with a heavy hitter only to pull them back would be awesome. Unfortunately, no such smuggler exists at the moment (not a competitively viable one, anyway).

I don't think so, its more about avoiding the big hit than it is saving the big guy. It doesn't matter how expensive the figure is, you are cancelling one of the opponent few attacks, more so one that you know would have been devestating (aka killing your figure or doing more damage than you expect otherwise). In a game where most figures are getting 2-4 attacks per match, blocking 1 of them is huge.

But there are *that* many smugglers out there yet. For Mercs you got greedo, vinto, weeqays, hired guns. For Rebels you got Chewie, han, lando, saska, jyn, sabs, and smugglers. I just tend to find myself building lots of lists with Greedo, vinto, and weeqays because I like all of them (rebels not so much, the big ones aren't competative and the little ones don't make enough of an offense).

3 minutes ago, roman2440 said:

For Rebels you got Chewie, han, lando, saska, jyn, sabs , and smugglers

Sabs are Spy / Heavy Weapon . Not Smugglers .

I tend to agree we need a few more high value Smugglers to make On the Lam great. Over extending with Vinto is probably the best use case at the moment but if Han was cheaper he would be a good option too.

For Mercs, I'd say that saving the Weequay Pirates and Vinto is a reasonable reason to include the two. Do you really feel the need to save Greedo and the Hired Guns though? Besides, I feel that you're often out of threat range with Greedo so as to mitigate his downside anyway, making On the Lam not as relevant for him. As far as the Rebels go, you pretty much summed it up by saying they're not really competitive.

So the question then boils down to is it worth it to play 3-5 points worth of command for the ability to negate some attacks on some of your units? Depending on what other units/traits your making use of, I'd start leaning more towards no. Again, I'd like to stress that if the meta does become more large unit focused (that is, fewer attacks overall), then both these cards become a lot better. At the moment, it seems as though most teams have plenty of units to attack with, so whilst you are negating approximately 25-33% of a single units attacks, it's a relatively small percentage of the overall attacks of the team.

P.S: Sabs aren't smugglers by the way; they're spies.

6 hours ago, theaficionado said:

I'd imagine the list you use the two smuggler cards in is something like:
2 Elite Weequay Pirate
Greedo
Vinto
Jabba
Black Market
+10 Points.

For those 10 points, you could get a Bantha with Beast Tamer, but then you'd need to include at least 2 Jundland Terror, and maybe Crush as well.

If lists tend towards fewer figures with larger attacks, then I'd definitely say the Smuggler cards are worth it.

I'm really curious.

That base is the right idea, but usually just c-3po + w/e (elite pigs or something) for filler. Also, there's plenty of good 0s these days. Take intiative and element of course, opportunistic for scum of course, greedo's card, wild attack for weequays, stimulants, positioning advantage, disorient, celebration (with the new meta and jabba math), maybe deadeye or a movement card, or maybe even planning to just draw 3 with jabba. Some folks also seem to like shoot the messenger, but i'm not a huge fan.

Also, saving an elite weequay from a kill shot is totally worth it with on the lam, when he'll likely just activate and kill something himself. Especially when the enemy is focused and/or hidden, and/or using tools for the job.

Also, since a bunch of you seem to still like leia, you can essentially on the lam out of two attacks against her.

9 minutes ago, bobbywhiskey said:

That base is the right idea, but usually just c-3po + w/e (elite pigs or something) for filler. Also, there's plenty of good 0s these days. Take intiative and element of course, opportunistic for scum of course, greedo's card, wild attack for weequays, stimulants, positioning advantage, disorient, celebration (with the new meta and jabba math), maybe deadeye or a movement card, or maybe even planning to just draw 3 with jabba. Some folks also seem to like shoot the messenger, but i'm not a huge fan.

Also, saving an elite weequay from a kill shot is totally worth it with on the lam, when he'll likely just activate and kill something himself. Especially when the enemy is focused and/or hidden, and/or using tools for the job.

Also, since a bunch of you seem to still like leia, you can essentially on the lam out of two attacks against her.

I can't disagree with any of those 0 cost cards being good, except for Greedo's card. I'm also not a huge fan of Wild Attack, but I know it's quite popular. Perhaps there are enough zero cost cards to justify running more 2s and 3s.

I'm coming around a little on On the Lam, but I'll still have to see it in action more. In my head, there are still other cards I'd rather be running than it.

What's wrong with Leia?

If the Jedi Bantha and Obi becomes even more popular, I can definitely see the power of it. Best case scenario, you're denying Luke both his attacks. Worst case, you're forcing Luke to stay in the midst of your squad to die a horrible death.

42 minutes ago, theaficionado said:

What's wrong with Leia?

There was a time when she was pretty good. But she's always had rather bad health to cost ratio. And honestly, I feel most people are baited by her battlefield leadership into putting her too far forward and then dying too easily. I know you do really well with her, but the average person, not so much. She's gotten worse though with Jabba's realm. A lot of focused hunters can one shot kill her with one maybe two command cards - tools and assassinate make it rather easy, heightened reflexes and element of surprise by themselves can sometimes pull it off.

My main problem with her is she either needs more health or lose battlefield leadership and drop her to 4-5 point range and keep the recycling of cards. I really like option 2 because it opens up so much more into Rebel lists. That's just my thoughts on her. She can be wrangled in and if the opponent ignores her, she can get some good utility, but she's expensive glass and not really a cannon unless paired well and a lot of times out of position. Shrug.

2 minutes ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

There was a time when she was pretty good. But she's always had rather bad health to cost ratio. And honestly, I feel most people are baited by her battlefield leadership into putting her too far forward and then dying too easily. I know you do really well with her, but the average person, not so much. She's gotten worse though with Jabba's realm. A lot of focused hunters can one shot kill her with one maybe two command cards - tools and assassinate make it rather easy, heightened reflexes and element of surprise by themselves can sometimes pull it off.

My main problem with her is she either needs more health or lose battlefield leadership and drop her to 4-5 point range and keep the recycling of cards. I really like option 2 because it opens up so much more into Rebel lists. That's just my thoughts on her. She can be wrangled in and if the opponent ignores her, she can get some good utility, but she's expensive glass and not really a cannon unless paired well and a lot of times out of position. Shrug.

It does make a lot of sense that her low health is now an issue with all these surprise damage cards out. She's pretty reliant on recover to survive, and considering that Assassinate alone is almost half her health, I can see the issue.