3 hours ago, Daner0023 said:

I agree that Shadowlands does not need to be a complete faction at launch, but I think taint should be in the game, as a mechanic.

I think it's untenable to carry 9 Clans and Shadowlands into a Core Set. If I was doing this I would exclude Shadowlands, Spider, Mantis & Unicorn.

Lion, Crane, Phoenix, Crab, Dragon & Scorpion are plenty to create basic card game archetypes.

Lion: Synergistic weenie swarm

Crane: Control/Clock setter

Phoenix: Attachment decks/Card Draw

Dragon: Chained Actions

Scorpion: Control/Burn

Crab: Heavy Hitters

By starting with these six it allows them to flesh out the game with 240 cards.

If they have around 90 generic/general use cards, that would leave 150 cards or 25 cards to flesh out each faction.

In those 25 cards, you could have 15-18 Personalities, a Clan Weapon, 1-3 Strongholds, a Clan Specific Holding, and some Objective Set type of cards.

I would be excited to see a return of the Unicorn expansion. An invasion of the Shadowlands expansion. The Daigotsu takeover of the Shadowlands. The Mantis' ascension to a Great Clan would be a great expansion.

Its not that these Clans/Decks are not important, conversely, to give them their proper attention, there needs to be some hard choices at launch. Otherwise, we would have 9-10 watered down deck types spread across 240 Cards.

Well taint is back in the story, so I'm sure taint will be in the game in some form.

I agree that a starter probably can't include all the factions (plus its just good marketing to hold some back) but I'd surprised if we don't see the original 7 clans in the starter. However if they are going to leave one out, given where the story went, the Dragon would make sense over the Unicorn since they are now sealed up in their mountain. As for archetypes.......all that depends on the game itself.

37 minutes ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

More idiocy from you.

I covered literally every single instance of the Kami having any tangible impact on the story for 85% of its run. And the single instance you can name I missed was.... right, during Fu Leng's invasion of heavens, he took out Shinjo which means she was reincarnated. And I guess it figures that her reincarnated soul would be the clan champion. I said I hadn't seen that part resolve, so I guess it eventually did.

Just the fact that the entire Unicorn Clan did not keel over and die the moment they could no longer "communicate with their kami" that you insist that every single person in every single clan constantly does on the hour every hour and dares not make a single decision in their life without direct input from these grand heavenly puppet masters involved in every day life....

Because all that is a giant load of crap. The Kami have 0 influence on the world.

The fact that you keep bringing up that they were printed as personalities... IN A NONLEGAL PREQUEL SET CALLED DAWN OF THE EMPIRE-- a set involving things that happened 1100 years before the current point in the story at that point and were in no way remotely involved in the current story. NOT AT ALL.

How can you just not remotely grasp that concept? You may as well be claiming that Daodoji Uji was the biggest, greatest hero of the Destroyer War and personally killed most of the Rakasha single-handedly. You know... simply because Daodoji Uji was printed as a card once and that card called him the "Crane Clan Champion" that means he is constantly alive and active in Rokugan and can never die and permanently in charge of everything Crane Clan and any number of unstated things are free to be attributed to him because no Crane can ever or would ever act without his command and guidance-- after all, his card said he was the champion.

At least with the "guidance" cards you can be said to be onto something about their "spirit" having some active role. But given that Yoritomo, Daigotsu, Daikoku, the elemental dragons, Megumi, Natsu-Togumara, and Osano-wo are now "kami"... well, apparently you don't need one for belief in you to inspire people to greatness, do you? Furthermore nothing in all the 17 years of the game previously nor in the set afterwards indicated that the Kami had any sort of serious direct ongoing influence in the world.

Since it is a PURELY mechanical thing, moreover a pretty crap mechanical thing that probably just made people lose games faster (no way in hell is any celestial card with losing a whole province over), it can be utterly discarded. In fact, IT WAS. The next set just utterly got rid of them.

Moreover, the fact that there was a "Shinjo's Guidance" and a "Shinjo's Guidance Experienced" printed for use in time in the story when Shinjo was a mortal with no memories or abilities to access her previous celestial powers... guess what that means?...

YES!! They are not REMOTELY evidence of the Kami having a role in every day life. At absolute most... maybe they suggest some of their teachings and belief in them can give people an edge. If they were, there could not be a "Shinjo's Guidance" card printed at all as Shinjo's soul was in no shape to guide anyone.

Nothing. NOTHING you have presented as your "evidence" for your absolute certainty that the single more deciding factor for factions inclusions or their core mechanics would in any way, shape or form remotely have anything to do with Kami.

Moreover, you have presented 0 compelling evidence that Hantei, Bayushi, Hida, Doji, Shiba or Akodo-- literally more than half the kami right there-- have had any actual direct impact upon the world of the game since their deaths about 1000 years before the first story of the very first game set even launched. The only ones that EVER popped up were Togashi (because never left until he was unmasked and defeated), Fu Leng (because he is the big bad), Ryoshun (in a very limited way primarily after the very introduction of him as even a concept) and Shinjo (because the story team apparently had a big boner about her so kept her mucking about).

None of the others really do a **** thing. All you have got is that they were once mortal and those long dead personality cards got printed... and that there were cards that implied belief in them would give you a slight bonus, but cost so much it would all but guarantee you to lose if you believed in them too early.

Its funny, you keep making these really long posts but have no clue what I'm actually saying.

Guys, cut it out. At this point, you're bith just yelling at each other, misrepresenting each other and not really providing any new input. Stop it.

14 minutes ago, Myrion said:

Guys, cut it out. At this point, you're bith just yelling at each other, misrepresenting each other and not really providing any new input. Stop it.

Well I just added him to an ignore list. When its clear someone has nothing intelligent to add yet keeps yelling and the interaction is annoying people, its time to stop listening.

One thing I think will be interesting to see is how well cross-clan works. In the AEG game, they tried to have some cards encourage mixing cards from other clans in, but in most cases decks stayed pretty homogenous. If cross-clan decks become a bit more feasible, though, it's possible to include only a few "full" clans in the base, while still giving all Great clans and some minor clans at least a little representation As an example, the Lord of the Rings LCG base set included cards with keywords like Dunedain, even though the overall theme of Dunedain decks wouldn't be established for some time, and there certainly weren't enough to create an entire deck initially.

Similarly, if they needed to reduce the number of clans included in the base, they could still include the likes of Tsuruchi Rin or Marimako to ensure that the clans were at least present, so long as it was viable to sprinkle them into other clans' decks (say, if no non-Mantis initially had ranged attacks, or no non-Spider initially had Conquerer, to use current game terminology). If they did this, they would probably need to redo how cross-clan recruitment works, and I think a good place to start would be to get rid of additional costs and instead focus on cards that reward synergy. Strongholds which target personalities may be restricted to personalities of a certain clan alignment, for instance, or strategy cards could encourage having multiple personalities which share clan alignment (or encourage multiple personalities with different alignments!)

Essentially, what this would do is transform the clan alignment from the defining element of every single deck into just another keyword. This would allow players to choose a theme such as Lion Clan Samurai for their deck if they wanted, while also allowing decks that may focus on Ranged Scouts, regardless of clan.

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

One thing I think will be interesting to see is how well cross-clan works. In the AEG game, they tried to have some cards encourage mixing cards from other clans in, but in most cases decks stayed pretty homogenous. If cross-clan decks become a bit more feasible, though, it's possible to include only a few "full" clans in the base, while still giving all Great clans and some minor clans at least a little representation As an example, the Lord of the Rings LCG base set included cards with keywords like Dunedain, even though the overall theme of Dunedain decks wouldn't be established for some time, and there certainly weren't enough to create an entire deck initially.

Similarly, if they needed to reduce the number of clans included in the base, they could still include the likes of Tsuruchi Rin or Marimako to ensure that the clans were at least present, so long as it was viable to sprinkle them into other clans' decks (say, if no non-Mantis initially had ranged attacks, or no non-Spider initially had Conquerer, to use current game terminology). If they did this, they would probably need to redo how cross-clan recruitment works, and I think a good place to start would be to get rid of additional costs and instead focus on cards that reward synergy. Strongholds which target personalities may be restricted to personalities of a certain clan alignment, for instance, or strategy cards could encourage having multiple personalities which share clan alignment (or encourage multiple personalities with different alignments!)

Essentially, what this would do is transform the clan alignment from the defining element of every single deck into just another keyword. This would allow players to choose a theme such as Lion Clan Samurai for their deck if they wanted, while also allowing decks that may focus on Ranged Scouts, regardless of clan.

Hmm. Interesting idea. Are you worried about clan identities becoming more blurred? While I like the idea of having armies of mixed clans, I'd be very concerned if the clans became, as you put it in your last paragraph, essentially just another keyword. That wouldn't feel like L5R to me... but as always, I'm open to trying out new ideas!

17 minutes ago, Ryoshun Higoka said:

Hmm. Interesting idea. Are you worried about clan identities becoming more blurred? While I like the idea of having armies of mixed clans, I'd be very concerned if the clans became, as you put it in your last paragraph, essentially just another keyword. That wouldn't feel like L5R to me... but as always, I'm open to trying out new ideas!

I guess I'm thinking a bit of Lord of the Rings LCG. In that, certain themes align with certain factions (Dunedain want to be engaged with numerous enemies at once; Noldor discard a lot of cards and get bonuses based on what's in the discard pile), so it makes a certain amount of sense to build a deck around these themes. However, if my Noldor deck is a little weak in one area, I can sprinkle in some non-Noldor cards with no real penalty other than perhaps some reduced synergy. It's also possible to make other decks that don't revolve around one of these themes; either for thematic reasons (e.g. wanting Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas to work together as the Three Hunters) or just for novelty's sake.

When I say, "just another keyword", I don't mean to imply that clan choice won't be an important -- and in many cases fundamental -- decision in deck-building, but rather that it would be nice to be able to build a Mantis deck that didn't automatically ignore all non-Mantis cards, and even give people the possibility to build decks that really break the mold! These decks could be thematic ("Oh, the fiction just introduced the idea of a Unicorn-Phoenix alliance! I'd like to build a deck to reflect that!") or just sheer novelty ("I wonder if I could create a Shugenja Guild with shugenja from every clan in the Empire?").

I'll also point out that not all keywords are created equal! In LotR, for instance, there are at least three varieties of keywords:

Rules Keywords: Keywords with specific rules tied to them.

Faction Keywords: No specific rules are attached, but in general cards with a certain faction's keyword will tend towards a certain playstyle. (This is about the level I think clans would fit.)

Thematic Keywords: No specific rules and no real playstyle, but some cards may interact with these (e.g. "If you own a Samurai and a different Scout at the same location...")

It might be worth noting in regards to that "Clans are keywords" thing....

I am pretty sure Phoenix Clan once had a stronghold where all non-clan shugenja counted as in clan... or did they grant a 2 gold discount... it was something like that.

1 hour ago, Ryoshun Higoka said:

Hmm. Interesting idea. Are you worried about clan identities becoming more blurred? While I like the idea of having armies of mixed clans, I'd be very concerned if the clans became, as you put it in your last paragraph, essentially just another keyword. That wouldn't feel like L5R to me... but as always, I'm open to trying out new ideas!

I agree, and I dont' think you need clan sharing/mixing. First, it would be something that makes L5R different from other LCG's and CCG's. Second, thats the function of Ronin in the game, to be personalities that everyone can use. It'd be nice if we saw more focus on them, and for there to be Ronin that are auto-includes in a lot of decks (they could also become a common tournament prize). But the setting doesn't lend itself to samurai from two clans working together.

The exception would be when two clans are brought together by the story. Whether we get strongholds, kami, generals or something else for an affliciation card, having some limited time options to include two clans together would/could work and be fun.

I don't know how feasible it would be, but I do think it would be really cool to have a fair number of Ron in in your deck that can't advance any other win condition or board state other than, "get dudes"

It would instill in me a sense of, "I like your presence, but **** I look down on you."

6 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I guess I'm thinking a bit of Lord of the Rings LCG. In that, certain themes align with certain factions (Dunedain want to be engaged with numerous enemies at once; Noldor discard a lot of cards and get bonuses based on what's in the discard pile), so it makes a certain amount of sense to build a deck around these themes. However, if my Noldor deck is a little weak in one area, I can sprinkle in some non-Noldor cards with no real penalty other than perhaps some reduced synergy. It's also possible to make other decks that don't revolve around one of these themes; either for thematic reasons (e.g. wanting Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas to work together as the Three Hunters) or just for novelty's sake.

When I say, "just another keyword", I don't mean to imply that clan choice won't be an important -- and in many cases fundamental -- decision in deck-building, but rather that it would be nice to be able to build a Mantis deck that didn't automatically ignore all non-Mantis cards, and even give people the possibility to build decks that really break the mold! These decks could be thematic ("Oh, the fiction just introduced the idea of a Unicorn-Phoenix alliance! I'd like to build a deck to reflect that!") or just sheer novelty ("I wonder if I could create a Shugenja Guild with shugenja from every clan in the Empire?").

I'll also point out that not all keywords are created equal! In LotR, for instance, there are at least three varieties of keywords:

Rules Keywords: Keywords with specific rules tied to them.

Faction Keywords: No specific rules are attached, but in general cards with a certain faction's keyword will tend towards a certain playstyle. (This is about the level I think clans would fit.)

Thematic Keywords: No specific rules and no real playstyle, but some cards may interact with these (e.g. "If you own a Samurai and a different Scout at the same location...")

That's an interesting idea (and I definitely see what you're going for, in terms of game design). As with any flavor-filled design, however, the designers will need to make sure that they keep a sense of "identity", and not just attached to whatever kind of keywording mechanic they've come up with.

The long and short of it is that each of the clans they include in the game will need to feel and play differently, which can either be done with "simple mechanics" or "tied mechanics"; if they go with tied mechanics, then playing (for example) Crab should feel very different than playing Crane. If they go with simple mechanics, then each clan will be played in the same fundamental way, but specialize in different advantages, such as in your LotR example.

Either way they go is certainly viable, fun game design, and I can't wait to see what they've done!

Building around a theme will hopefully be something that can be done, especially in regular non-tournament games, and it would be fun to have some self-imposed challenges or house-ruled games with those themes! I love your shugenja-from-each-clan idea - it would be neat to see a sort of "Jade Champion" challenge.

Hm. Once the game is released, we'll need to get our heads together on some fun house-rules/challenges...

Just joined the board but I would absolutely love an L5R themed version of Imperial Assault. There is so much content there to work with, you feel like there would be expansions for years out there.

On 13/02/2017 at 8:03 PM, Jedi samurai said:

Togoshi wasn't body hoping. Seriously, you need read some fictions.

Sure, the tamashii never existed...

http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Tamashii

11 hours ago, kurikaeshi said:

Just joined the board but I would absolutely love an L5R themed version of Imperial Assault. There is so much content there to work with, you feel like there would be expansions for years out there.

We have discussed some ideas for that at length.

On 2/5/2017 at 4:31 PM, Shiba Gunichi said:

Is anyone here truly interested in buying and assembling rank upon rank of Ashigaru spearmen and painting them in the proper clan colors, just so they can field a couple blocks of Inferno Guard troops, the Firestorm Legion, a Houhou model, and Isawa Tsuke?

Not to be snarky, but lots of people, thousands have done just this with mini war games like Johnny Reb and Napoleon.

You make a good point and those days are gone.

The problem people seem to miss is that the special characteristic of a clan is likely a small part of that clan, the RPG portion if I may.

For a war game, each army field hundreds of generic soldiers. But those days are gone. It's a great idea, but it's a byegone time.

Sorry

New game coming out soon!

Been thinking of getting some and painting them up in clan colours!

https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/test-of-honour/

Here is a Samurai war game you may be interested in:

http://web.zenitminiatures.es/en/kensei-the-game/

its too new to know anything about, so do your research....

this company produces samurai miniatures so you may want to add to your RPG:

http://muraminiatures.com/on-collecting-samurai-miniatures.html

these are the mainstay miniatures...the best:

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_38

As I discussed with Osprey's game and miniatures here are more:

http://skirmishwargaming.com/ronin-miniatures-overview/

this is a wargame set of rules so enjoy:

https://miniaturewargaming.com/blog/2015/07/kensei-samurai-rules/

hope this helps with your idea, but war game rules are out there....

I've been looking at the RuneWars previews - I think that system would be a really good foundation/starting place to build an L5R miniature game.

2 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:

I've been looking at the RuneWars previews - I think that system would be a really good foundation/starting place to build an L5R miniature game.

I would be surprised if we didn't get an L5R Miniatures game at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed this before a new RPG system.

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:23 AM, kurikaeshi said:

Just joined the board but I would absolutely love an L5R themed version of Imperial Assault. There is so much content there to work with, you feel like there would be expansions for years out there.

If such a thing had a campaign mode, my friends and I would play the heck out of it. We love IA and Descent. It would be even better if it launched with an app "GM" like Mansions of Madness.

13 minutes ago, Mirith said:

I would be surprised if we didn't get an L5R Miniatures game at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed this before a new RPG system.

I think a miniatures game will depend on how well the LCG does.

LCG -> RPG -> Boardgame(s) -> Miniature Game is the natural progression I think... (if all goes well)

New L5R product as Imperial Assault or Descent? Me wants. A boardgame like Dune/Rex would also be amazing.

11 minutes ago, Wintersong said:

A boardgame like Dune/Rex would also be amazing.

This... Is the most excellent idea I have ever heard. Why did It never occured to me? It's a natural fit!

L5R had a minis game (Clan Wars) which did terrible so I'm not sure if FFG will try this again.