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Edited by uhhsamdoublepost. no delete?
Hyperloop - Change Needed?
doublepost. no delete?
46 minutes ago, uhhsam said:My point was that sideboards counter decks, not 2-card combos. Hyperloop goes in any Hero deck with a yellow character. Devoting any sideboard space to countering Hyperloop will only make your deck worse in the 2nd game. And I believe color hosing would be much more effective in a game like Destiny. If Magic was a game where you could only have 5 creatures in your deck, they began the game in play, and you won by killing them, Pyroblast would be in every red deck's sideboard.
But they're not, so what are we actually comparing? My previous offer extends to you as well: I'll link all the top 10 winning standard lists from the previous half year and you point out which "entire decks" people are teching against in their sideboards.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding HyperLoop. It doesn't sound quite as exploitative as the way I understood it, but I could also be misreading. Essentially, if you can get the Falcon out there and have Hyperspace Jump in your hand, you can Activate the Falcon, your opponent has only one action to counter the loop, and then you can claim, which would normally let the enemy wail on you, but this ends the action phase so both players have to move onto upkeep phase. Repeat as needed to gain resources. It sounded like someone was saying that your opponent can still take actions after you make the Jump. Is this or is it not the case?
I have witnessed the loop once, but it was during a game I was spectating before I actually began playing myself. Does your opponent get to take actions after you claim and reactivate the jump? And I haven't seen much actual discussion on how to counter it. Dodge is the only way I can find, and in the process you're giving your opponent free resources also to activate Dodge. Problem being that you can only Dodge a max of twice and it's likely better used to prevent actual damage. It's expensive to activate but Poe alleviates that to a degree.
It's definitely abusive, to be fair. I just want to make sure I understand it, and I'm a fairly new player. As has been discussed, I came to this game from other FFG Star Wars products. What other choices exist to stop it? Why would I not just let it accrue me resources for a bit, like if I'm playing a Crime Lord deck? If you Loop 3 times you've provided me enough to get the Crime Lord special and assassinate a character. Because he can just Loop me out of being able to activate? He has to take a few actions to deal damage at some point. Doesn't he? Or is there some reason that I wouldn't gain resources as well?
Apologies for the wall of questions.
Edited by Engine25Nobody gets to act after you claim Emperor's Throne Room and resolve the Falcon's special. The loop doesn't exist to accrue resources, it exists to lock your opponent out of the game entirely; roll the Falcon onto the table, take a couple potshots with your damage dice (if you can), and then claim any time your opponent appears to be in an advantageous position. A lot of turns will end the moment your opponent rolls a die with damage showing. Then you start over - going first, of course - and wait it out until your dice are showing damage and your opponent's aren't. Repeat for 35 minutes or until your opponent rage quits.
Edited by WonderWAAAGHPlay Vader and activate him every turn first. Nothing else, but it puts your opponent on a count down that limits the number of times he hyperloops to around 20 or so, allowing for card plays, discards and what not to get the loop running in the first place.
If you have Crime Lord in play you could perhaps just claim and resolve the special yourself. But you will have to take everything that the other player can do, which may or may not be substantial.
27 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:Nobody gets to act after you claim Emperor's Throne Room and resolve the Falcon's special.
That's how I thought it worked but a few posts didn't seem that way from my quick read thru of the thread.
Side note, haven't seen you on the X wing forum in a while. I guess you've been hanging out here.
3 minutes ago, Amanal said:
If you have Crime Lord in play you could perhaps just claim and resolve the special yourself. But you will have to take everything that the other player can do, which may or may not be substantial.
But you have to be allowed to activate AND resolve, which is a problem here. But if you can assassinate his heavy hitter it seems line a good start.
22 minutes ago, Engine25 said:
That's how I thought it worked but a few posts didn't seem that way from my quick read thru of the thread.
Side note, haven't seen you on the X wing forum in a while. I guess you've been hanging out here.
I gave up X-Wing after they started introducing Rebels stuff. Just wasn't my jam. But yeah, Destiny sort of brought me back from the dead.
New Tournament Rule:
Once per action phase, if you do not control the battlefield, you may spend 2 resources to perform one additional action after you activate a character.
If you try to loop repeatedly, your opponent will be chipping away at you. Looping broken.
That's a joke suggestion right?
16 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:That's a joke suggestion right?
About 80% joking, but it would work right? lol
2 hours ago, Engine25 said:About 80% joking, but it would work right? lol
So would a knuckle sandwich to the looper.
13 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:I gave up X-Wing after they started introducing Rebels stuff. Just wasn't my jam. But yeah, Destiny sort of brought me back from the dead.
Can't wait for the rebels characters in this game.
4 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:Can't wait for the rebels characters in this game.
Ug I can, a very very long time. We all know it will happen though
If we're going to put everything that's bad about Star Wars into Destiny we might as well add Jar Jar and young Anakin. Wouldn't that be wizard?!?
2 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:If we're going to put everything that's bad about Star Wars into Destiny we might as well add Jar Jar and young Anakin. Wouldn't that be wizard?!?
To each their own I guess. I really like Rebels, Ezra was annoying at first, but the rest of the characters have been pretty solid, Maul is back, and the re-canonizing of Thrawn this season has been really good so far.
Maul would have to come back; the Clone Wars series finale left him and Sidious in a weird place.
Did you guys see that Vader's droids are coming to Imperial Assault? That would be a cool addition to Destiny, not that it's hard to trump saber-copters these days.
Edited by WonderWAAAGH3 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:Not that it's hard to trump saber-copters these days.
Haha yeah that was a little weird.
6 hours ago, WonderWAAAGH said:Maul would have to come back; the Clone Wars series finale left him and Sidious in a weird place.
Did you guys see that Vader's droids are coming to Imperial Assault? That would be a cool addition to Destiny, not that it's hard to trump saber-copters these days.
BT-1 is going to be boss.
But that's another thread...
Hard dice control ends hyper loop. One each round for falcon die, and then ways to handle cunning and Poe into another falcon.
Problem I have with loop is this: it only takes two cards to setup verse 1-4 cards per round to break.
If you have reaccuring dice control "on the hunt", this reduces card cost. Main deal would be claiming before opponent after breaking loop.
Edited by Keigi2 minutes ago, Keigi said:Hard dice control ends hyper loop. One each round for falcon die, and then ways to handle cunning and Poe into another falcon.
Problem I have with loop is this: it only takes two cards to setup verse 1-4 cards per round to break.
If you have reaccuring dice control "on the hunt", this reduces card cost. Main deal would be claiming before opponent after breaking loop.
That assumes you're in the right colors and in the right faction, which you obviously can't depend on. I know of a couple ways to circumvent maindecking hard counters, but that conversation has lapsed...
1 minute ago, WonderWAAAGH said:That assumes you're in the right colors and in the right faction, which you obviously can't depend on. I know of a couple ways to circumvent maindecking hard counters, but that conversation has lapsed...
Yes, but "right faction/color" can also be said about the other strong deck archetypes. Yellow villain for aggro, for Jango, for example.
Point is my hard control deck would not have issues with the loop. The issue would be using control on none damage dice, and the card cost of doing so.
Again, meta is still in its aggro-infancy. Take time for the good mill and control decks to gain ground. Since these decks are usually better at handling combo decks, here we are because of the lack of them.
Lukas talks about recursion in the spoiler video for SOR and what he says makes sense but kind of goes against how the Hyperloop works since it is effectively a cheap/free event over and over again:
31 minutes ago, [Ace] said:Lukas talks about recursion in the spoiler video for SOR and what he says makes sense but kind of goes against how the Hyperloop works since it is effectively a cheap/free event over and over again:
Yeah, do not think hyper loop was prevelant at time of recording.
It takes 5 resources, minimun, to setup. Problem is once it's set up, then you are able to use it for free with battlefield.
Rise again has the same resource cost. Can't imagine getting it off more than once a game.
The battlefields, junkyard & throne, seem to be the real enablers here for looped recursion.
40 minutes ago, Keigi said:Yeah, do not think hyper loop was prevelant at time of recording.
It takes 5 resources, minimun, to setup. Problem is once it's set up, then you are able to use it for free with battlefield.
Rise again has the same resource cost. Can't imagine getting it off more than once a game.
The battlefields, junkyard & throne, seem to be the real enablers here for looped recursion.
Correction it only takes 3 resources to setup, you can roll Poe's die in, claim the battlefield and resolve Poe's special resolving the 2 resource side of the falcon die then play the falcon with your 5 resources. You only need to generate 1 additional resource turn 1 to get the falcon down (assuming you have it in your opening hand of course hand).
Secondly based on the on the apparent ruling in the Rey/Holdout blaster/Jango thread, Nested actions do exist the question further up the thread is now event more pertinent:
Scenario.
Resolve Poe special for falcon special to trigger hyperspace in my discard. Am I still allowed to play the falcon as part of Poe's "then" even though the action phase has ended?
Seems like the answers Lukas/FFG are providing create more questions than answers.