Band-aids tend to do that when the designers value intent over their own RAW.

3 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

Correction

Seems like the answers Lukas/FFG are providing create more questions than answers.

Correction, 5 resources is 5 resources.

Is the resolution of poes ability counted as an action? Is it counted as an act? Can you claim imperial armory and tap bind all things to reduce the cost of the upgrade?

Agreed, maybe we are over thinking unclear rules/rulings.

11 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

Correction it only takes 3 resources to setup, you can roll Poe's die in, claim the battlefield and resolve Poe's special resolving the 2 resource side of the falcon die then play the falcon with your 5 resources. You only need to generate 1 additional resource turn 1 to get the falcon down (assuming you have it in your opening hand of course hand).

Secondly based on the on the apparent ruling in the Rey/Holdout blaster/Jango thread, Nested actions do exist the question further up the thread is now event more pertinent:

Scenario.

Resolve Poe special for falcon special to trigger hyperspace in my discard. Am I still allowed to play the falcon as part of Poe's "then" even though the action phase has ended?

Seems like the answers Lukas/FFG are providing create more questions than answers.

Why wouldn't you be able to play the Falcon in that situation? The action phase ending doesn't change Poe's special or give you any indication that you shouldn't resolve it fully.

Bringing the Falcon into play like that isn't an action.

1 hour ago, ScottieATF said:

Why wouldn't you be able to play the Falcon in that situation? The action phase ending doesn't change Poe's special or give you any indication that you shouldn't resolve it fully.

Bringing the Falcon into play like that isn't an action.

The answer to the Rey+Holdout Blaster+Jango question created an additional dilemma associated with Hyperspace Jump. Combined with Infamous, it appears to possibly create an Ambush action that would occur during the Upkeep phase. RAW again provide no real help, as there's nothing that directly limits Actions to the Action Phase.

You know what the real problem with Hyperspace Jump is? Villains don't get a similar means to swap battlegrounds.

13 hours ago, Keigi said:

Correction, 5 resources is 5 resources.

Is the resolution of poes ability counted as an action? Is it counted as an act? Can you claim imperial armory and tap bind all things to reduce the cost of the upgrade?

Agreed, maybe we are over thinking unclear rules/rulings.

You might call it semantics I suppose, but you start your action with 3 resources in play, then at the end of the action you end up with a falcon in play, seems to me like you get a falcon for 3 resources.

And yes I do believe you can combine the effects of IBAT and Armoury to reduce the cost of an upgrade by 2

5 hours ago, ScottieATF said:

Why wouldn't you be able to play the Falcon in that situation? The action phase ending doesn't change Poe's special or give you any indication that you shouldn't resolve it fully.

Bringing the Falcon into play like that isn't an action.

The fact that you have an action that is trying to finish resolving after you have ended the action phase maybe?

Not to mention (as noted above) the fact that you can now generate an entire extra action that in theory will resolve after the action phase has ended

6 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

You might call it semantics I suppose, but you start your action with 3 resources in play, then at the end of the action you end up with a falcon in play, seems to me like you get a falcon for 3 resources.

And yes I do believe you can combine the effects of IBAT and Armoury to reduce the cost of an upgrade by 2

The fact that you have an action that is trying to finish resolving after you have ended the action phase maybe?

Not to mention (as noted above) the fact that you can now generate an entire extra action that in theory will resolve after the action phase has ended

It's not an action though.

If you play tactical mastery, you can not claim the battlefield and then use the second action.

17 minutes ago, Keigi said:

It's not an action though.

If you play tactical mastery, you can not claim the battlefield and then use the second action.

Playing the Falcon is part of an unfinished action .

You can't have it both ways, you either allow triggered actions and effects to resolve after the action phase has ended or you don't.

In one sentence you are insisting that part of an action resolve outside of the action phase and the next sentence you say that you aren't allowed to use actions you have outside the action phase.

Which is it?

It's not an action.

4 minutes ago, Keigi said:

It's not an action.

This is the text that forms Poe's special ACTION:

"- Discard a card from your hand to resolve one of the sides of its die, if able. Then, if it was a vehicle card, you may pay its cost to play it from your discard pile"

Every word therein is part of the same ACTION.

6 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

This is the text that forms Poe's special ACTION:

"- Discard a card from your hand to resolve one of the sides of its die, if able. Then, if it was a vehicle card, you may pay its cost to play it from your discard pile"

Every word therein is part of the same ACTION.

1. ACTION: Claim Battlefield.

2. Optional claim ability taken.

3. Turn Poe's die to special side.

4. Optional resolve of Poe's special side taken.

5. Poe's special ability now resolved.

6. Resolve Poe's special ability by discarding falcon.

7. Resolve falcon special side.

8. Falcon's special ability now resolved.

9. Resolve falcon's special ability by playing hyperspace jump.

10. Resolve hyperspace jump. Action phase ends. Choose to switch battlefield. Discard hyperspace jump.

11. Hyperspace jump ability now fully resolved.

12. Poe's special ability "Then" ability triggers because falcon is a vehicle card.

13. Resolve Poe's "Then" special ability to play Falcon from discard pile for five resources.

14. Poe's special ability now fully resolved.

15. Claim ability fully resolved.

16. Upkeep phase.

Ability not an action. Claiming is an action, everything after is an ability.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actions Are:

1. Play card from hand.
2. Activate a character or support.
3. Resolve dice.
4. Discard a card to reroll dice.
5. Use a card action.
6. Claim the battlefield.

Those are the only current actions available to be taken by a player [RR 12].

Claim The Battlefield:

"... passes all of their future turns and declines to act if they ever have the opportunity to take actions. [RR 13].

Abilities Are:

1. Action Abilities
2. Claim Abilities
3. Ongoing Abilities
4. Inherent Dice Abilities
   1. Special Abilities

Special Abilities:

"These are a type of inherent die abilities that appear on some cards and are marked by the special symbol. When a die with that symbol is resolved, the special ability on its matching card is resolved. [RR 15]"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Playing a Falcon from your hand can be a chosen action and an act. Using Poe's special ability to play Falcon from your hand is resolution of a special ability; therefore not an action or act. Playing tactical mastery is an action; then claiming the battlefield is another action; but after claiming the battlefield the bonus action from tactical mastery cannot be used because it would count as an action or act.

The falcon costs five resources. It's not semantics. You are just mashing up the the queue and only seeing the start and end of it. If you didn't pay to play the falcon, after resolving it's two resource side, you would have five resources - not three.

Hope this clears things up.

i played against this deck yesterday for the very first time, even though i won with Vader/Raider by milling with 1 card left in my hand i did find the mechanic very frustrating and a NPE, i must have lost close to 20 damage over the course of the game because i would always start with activating Vader and at this point Vader had a a Kylo saber,Force choke and Force throw, he would just Hyperloop the minute i rolled good, i only got lucky at the end when he rolled a 2 on Falcon and i electroshocked it thus saving me from another stall.

1 hour ago, Darth evil said:

i played against this deck yesterday for the very first time, even though i won with Vader/Raider by milling with 1 card left in my hand i did find the mechanic very frustrating and a NPE, i must have lost close to 20 damage over the course of the game because i would always start with activating Vader and at this point Vader had a a Kylo saber,Force choke and Force throw, he would just Hyperloop the minute i rolled good, i only got lucky at the end when he rolled a 2 on Falcon and i electroshocked it thus saving me from another stall.

Jango is still more overpowered than this combo.

The play experience is the problem, jango decks are stronger, but playing against hyperloop is 0 fun even in winning.

On 3/11/2017 at 9:10 PM, ozmodon said:

Jango is still more overpowered than this combo.

There is a difference between powerful decks/cards, Jango, and a Negative Play Experience, Loop. With Jango it can be fun if you play well and get a close game. Loop is a NPE as you can god roll but if they want they can just straight up negate that.

Worst case scenario in Jango is you roll bad they roll good you die turn 2, 3 at latest. Worst case in Loop they get 1 damage ahead and infinitely loop you for 35 minutes just for the win.

4 hours ago, GamerGuy1984 said:

There is a difference between powerful decks/cards, Jango, and a Negative Play Experience, Loop. With Jango it can be fun if you play well and get a close game. Loop is a NPE as you can god roll but if they want they can just straight up negate that.

Worst case scenario in Jango is you roll bad they roll good you die turn 2, 3 at latest. Worst case in Loop they get 1 damage ahead and infinitely loop you for 35 minutes just for the win.

I get that the loop sucks and for all but Jango it's a death sentence. I think if they eratted it to must change battlefield it would help

Ah the Hyperloop.

I faced it in a couple of games , it's pretty easy to set up the loop , and then the game is over unless you have a way of getting your dice out and resolved.

They can play the turn until they see danger and then turn over , they start again , it's broken.

On Wed Feb 08 2017 at 10:42 PM, Mace Windu said:

This is the text that forms Poe's special ACTION:

"- Discard a card from your hand to resolve one of the sides of its die, if able. Then, if it was a vehicle card, you may pay its cost to play it from your discard pile"

Every word therein is part of the same ACTION.

Wrong. Hes already corrected you. Poes ability is an ability, not an Action. Leia and Veers are Actions. It states clearly in the rules/FAQs. Thats like claiming Ackbars ability wouldnt take effect bc you played Hyperspace Jump as the last card from your hand that turn. You still have to do the damage.

Poes ability pertaining to the special symbol on his dice is all one resolution. Therefore you get to resolve everything it states on his card before you move onto the next step.

~D