It's not just because of the small cardpool, btw. They tend to make the core set eternally legal, so that it's always a good way for a new player to start. I think that's pretty clever, and it allows them to create all those basic followers and items once, and then not have to keep designing more cheap +1/+1s (or whatever). Just create all the Ashigaru Spearmen in core amd never worry about them again.

They also don't have to keep reprinting them, either, so they really free up space for later cards.

1 hour ago, Myrion said:

It's not just because of the small cardpool, btw. They tend to make the core set eternally legal, so that it's always a good way for a new player to start. I think that's pretty clever, and it allows them to create all those basic followers and items once, and then not have to keep designing more cheap +1/+1s (or whatever). Just create all the Ashigaru Spearmen in core amd never worry about them again.

They also don't have to keep reprinting them, either, so they really free up space for later cards.

While I like the rotating pool of legality, I don't think the cycling is aggressive enough.

Fair enough, but that's not really what I was talking about. I'll try to be clearer:

We've seen some complaints from former design staff (and players) that they had to spend a lot of time and design space on basic cards each card set. There always had to be some basic weapons, some Ashigaru etc. and that limited what they could do with each set.

With the eternally legal core set, they can deal with most of those basic cards once, and then they're done. Each new set can therefore contain much more interesting equipment and followers as its neutral cards.

See what I mean now?

Also, why do you think they're not cycling aggressively enough? I mean, I see quite a few benefits to not cycling too aggressively.

Netrunner proved that solid Core Set cards are balast that will be hard to avoid without reprinting CS wit some "tweaks". Rotation at this form takes too long and we still don't know how it will impact to scene. First game that is going to hit rotation is Netrunner and it - maybe - wil be this year at 8th Cycle, 5 years after premiere.

Hola, Rokugan!

In regards to victory conditions, I hope that the game's designers allow us players to defend our provinces, or more abstractly, access to our cards as the original game provided.

I deeply value games that require players to protect their life points and require directly taking victory from opponents. For example, winning a game of L5R by destroying the opponent's last province, while holding onto one, last province feels much more like VICTORY, with a capital V, than a semi-assymetrical race to a certain number of victory points.

I hope that the new L5R let's us take victory from our opponents. And when we lose a match, our opponents have defeated us, rather than speeding passed us on their way to victory points.

Every time I sit down to play classic L5R CCG as a Crab player, I imagine my people living in my provinces, supporting and counting on me to make the difference in their lives and on the battlefield.

And I can't tell you how many consternated looks my Unicorn opponent gave me when I declared that all of my personalities would defend my provinces against his weakling attackers on horseback. My opponent would tell me that in this game we're supposed to trade losing provinces down to the very end, but that sounded blasphemous to me. Those provinces house my people, and if I stood by and allowed three-fourths of my people burn, then I am not their leader after all.

Usually, my Unicorn opponent would surrender and pick up his cards when I trounced his forces as a defender.

Here's hoping that we'll all fight, honor, and dishoner one another this summer, instead of stockpile "gain three VP when this happens" events.

If I wanted to collect Abstract VP, I would play Stefan Feld board games and play House Tyrell as a gentleman card player in AGOT 2nd edition.

You've seriously had someone quit the game because you didn't just hand over your provinces?!

I mean, I get not committing to a fight you know you can't win. I get that it's annoying if you draw things out by fighting every last fight, no matter how pointless. But clearly that wasn't that kind of fight, since you ended up winning?!

?!!?!

Please explain.

And *I* like playing for time and desperately trying to eke out the extra turn I need to hit 40 honor before getting crushed by a military deck.

7 hours ago, Myrion said:

Fair enough, but that's not really what I was talking about. I'll try to be clearer:

We've seen some complaints from former design staff (and players) that they had to spend a lot of time and design space on basic cards each card set. There always had to be some basic weapons, some Ashigaru etc. and that limited what they could do with each set.

With the eternally legal core set, they can deal with most of those basic cards once, and then they're done. Each new set can therefore contain much more interesting equipment and followers as its neutral cards.

See what I mean now?

Also, why do you think they're not cycling aggressively enough? I mean, I see quite a few benefits to not cycling too aggressively.

Sorry my post was too short.

Yea I understand that about design space and agree that is very convenient for not having to design the same stuff over and over. That is good.

What I mean by not aggressive enough is that by only introducing ~20 cards a month and having them cycle out YEARS after they come out, it gets stagnant pretty quick for me. At least that's what I experienced with Netrunner

The very-unforgiving players that taught me the game traveled to kotei tournaments around the country and took matches very seriously.

They created a meta-culture of destroying provinces as fast as possible, each turn, even if the attacks seemed a bit weak, while bluffing that they held swing-tactics cards in their hands. So, games would usually go with each player taking one province a turn, not blocking anything, like kamikaze pilots in World War 2. Until the end of the game, when both players stood at only one or two provinces left. Then, each player built up their forces through an arms race of dynasty phases. Then, like a duel, one player would strike with an all-out attack, tactics cards and abilities bowing like the end of the world. So, to me, that meta-culture felt like each game involved twenty minutes of build up for one fight.

So, as I lost game after game as a beginner, I realized that the meta-culture had left the opening for a player like me to call everyone's little bluff attacks with ten force or so. So my opponents would declare an attack and continue their turn like it was a foregone conclusion that I would allow the attack, let my province burn, so that I could continue amassing my army for late-game. So when I declared that all of my personalities would defend my first province, my opponents looked at me like I didn't know the game or broke a gentleman's rule.

Then, I'd bow my personalities to mess up their attackers and have a hand full of defensive shenanigans like Turtle Shell and the ability to kill their personalities.

So, after a few turns of this, I would eliminate their big-force, special personality with followers. At this point, the opponent would angrily scoop-up their cards and forfeit.

L5R seemed more like a roleplaying game told card by card. So whereas in Magic the Gathering, some card effects are worth sacrificing abstract life points, creatures, and land, in L5R, I am the Crab clan, and I will defend my people to the end. Then, build a small side force to attack my opponent after he or she makes a tactical mistake.

I can't imagine a general with a domestic scorched-earth policy.

Sounds like they got too practiced with their own group meta. And were unable to adapt to alternate plays.

Yeah, jeez. I know people get like that but wow. They seriously needed someone to come in and play that ^^

Also, actually RPing your clan out is awesome, even if the group isn't in dire need of a shake-up.

thinking is probably time for a previews thread

19 minutes ago, cielago said:

thinking is probably time for a previews thread

Yessssssss

Man,

I'm thinking that we could induce most of the gameplay if FFG just released a couple of cards from the set, the resource system, and the victory condition(s).

That information alone would feed my imagination for the next six months.

I just picture five years from now: we all have 1,000 L5R cards in the pool that all function without errata and nerfing. Wow!

That's "just" most of the important stuff

I'd be happy about seeing a few cards.

Somehow I'm most interested to see the card templates...

51 minutes ago, the eigensheep said:

Somehow I'm most interested to see the card templates...

I just wish they keep them symmetric.

Some news posted in L5R Brasil facebook:

* Steve Horvath announced they will make more products besides the card game.

* the players will still make impact in the history, but in a different way..

8 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

Some news posted in L5R Brasil facebook:

* Steve Horvath announced they will make more products besides the card game.

* the players will still make impact in the history, but in a different way..

* there will be no compability with the old CCG;

* Design Team:
Lead designer: Nate French
Co-designers: Eric Dahlman and Brad Andres

* Koteis will still exist.

* Store championships, Opens, Nacionals e world champ. are planned. The first world champ. will be in november, together with the others FFG games.

* will receive the same rotation as the other lcgs (as netrunner)

* “Dynasty packs” lauched monthly (little expansions);

* the big expansions will be based on clans.

* O Core set cost $39.95

* will be necessary 2 Core Sets to have the playset of all cards;

Thanks for info, but you really think that 10+ hours delayed stuff is still "news" here?

2 minutes ago, kempy said:

Thanks for info, but you really think that 10+ hours delayed stuff is still "news" here?

Hey-O,

I appreciate the bullet-point breakdown, L55BR. That Brazil meta-culture has STRENGTH.

Huh, I somehow missed that.

7 hours ago, L5RBr said:

Some news posted in L5R Brasil facebook:

* Steve Horvath announced they will make more products besides the card game.

* the players will still make impact in the history, but in a different way..

* there will be no compability with the old CCG;

* Design Team:
Lead designer: Nate French
Co-designers: Eric Dahlman and Brad Andres

* Koteis will still exist.

* Store championships, Opens, Nacionals e world champ. are planned. The first world champ. will be in november, together with the others FFG games.

* will receive the same rotation as the other lcgs (as netrunner)

* “Dynasty packs” lauched monthly (little expansions);

* the big expansions will be based on clans.

* O Core set cost $39.95

* will be necessary 2 Core Sets to have the playset of all cards;

so excited for all this news but i would be cautious to say 2 core will get you a full playset of the cards as Steve Horvath's Exact words were "2 cores are required for competitive play".