She may not be worth 22 points, but I think that has more to do with the Lancer's pricing than with hers. For 7 points, you bump one black die to two blue (which also allows synergy with Torryn Far during those bomber runs!), and she gives a brace and a scatter token, and you get her "tie 'em up" special ability.

I think that's kind of a steal, compared to the base Lancer.

2 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

I mean... if you haven't used her against Intel, what basis do you even have for the efficacy of her skill? Do you face Chiraneau a lot or something?

If you don't see Intel much, there's not going to be much value in bringing a counter to intel.

There is the point. You may face intel or you may not, and paying 22 fleet points for a posibility is too much. In case you dont you are just running an overpriced and fairly weak bomber.

2 hours ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Ketsu buys you time and in my experience works best in fleets trying to capitalize on wiping carriers/all of the opponents ships. She operates kind of like Wave 1 Tycho. Yeah, she is gonna die but she'll clog up your fighter engines with her corpse.

She's durable to last more than one turn in these fleets and the ships are flying fast enough that speed 2 can't really keep up if they manage to disengage.

You have to capitalize on the maxim: 1. If you win the capital ship game (wipe your opponents ships) you win 2. You don't have to win the fighter game to win the ship game.

Conversely, she's is overpriced if you go for the normal convetional fighter game. She offers you some positioning leverage in this case but if you are trying to just wipe the opposing fighters she doesn't seem worth it.

There is not much like a choice when you get tied up by guys like this:

2 hours ago, Eggzavier said:

I will say that Ketsu is one of my priority targets as a primarily Imperial player.

Thats why I'm saying that it is overpriced. You can play your game the way you think it must be done, but her skill is so circumstantial that you rarely make use of it. And when you do, is not that impressive.

Just now, xerpo said:

There is the point. You may face intel or you may not, and paying 22 fleet points for a posibility is too much. In case you dont you are just running an overpriced and fairly weak bomber.

Right, it's a tech card. You take it if you expect to see Intel/Chirpy/Tycho shenanigans. If you don't see those much, you don't take it. It's like spending your officer slot on Yavaris for Wing Commander if you expect Slicer Tools: sh*tty, until it's critical.

Most people running heavy bomber lists will take at least one of Intel/Chirpy. So if your meta is very squadron-heavy, it's a pretty safe bet to take her. If you do and then have a game where you don't see Intel, no too big a deal, you've blown 7 points over the vanilla Lancer on an unused ability and a couple of super nice defense tokens. If you do... well, that has yet to be evaluated. And that can't be done if you've never even tried it in a game where it mattered. That's like saying Instigator is trash if you've never used it in a game with squadrons.

1 hour ago, Critias said:

She may not be worth 22 points, but I think that has more to do with the Lancer's pricing than with hers. For 7 points, you bump one black die to two blue (which also allows synergy with Torryn Far during those bomber runs!), and she gives a brace and a scatter token, and you get her "tie 'em up" special ability.

I think that's kind of a steal, compared to the base Lancer.

I think you got it, 15 points for a regular Lancer is a high price for a rogue bomber. That speed 4 is not a big deal because most of your escort are going to speed 3, so you won't use that speed at is full potentiel. Grit is not that great too cause habitually, your foe will not bring only one interceptor. Too fragile for a bomber. If I have to choose between a YT-2400 and a Lancer, my choice go with the YT-2400 first. That 1 point of difference do worth it for that extra blue dice and those extra 2 hull.

And for Ketsu, 22 points is a bit too much to pay for her ability. 19 points should be the right price. Her special ability is too contextual to worth that amount of point.

But that only my point of view and I know it will change nothing. It's only for the fun of talking about it

8 minutes ago, xerpo said:

There is not much like a choice when you get tied up by guys like this:

Thats why I'm saying that it is overpriced. You can play your game the way you think it must be done, but her skill is so circumstantial that you rarely make use of it. And when you do, is not that impressive.

Don't ever get frustrated using something because people like to kill it. Just because it's a priority for them means it's probably very effective at what it does.

8 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Don't ever get frustrated using something because people like to kill it. Just because it's a priority for them means it's probably very effective at what it does.

Exactly, if I'm using my alpha or beta strike to kill Ketsu, then you better be making sure the other stuff you brought is going to be punishing me for making that decision.

She's a 22 point target that can threaten ships with bomber/grit/rogue and 2blue dice, has decent anti-fighter attack and a tech ability that hurts Intel, which is one of the key aspects of the meta that I have experienced.

I would trade 22 points for a turn or two of relief from double BCC'd tie bombers. In fact, that might be the whole game for me.

I love Ketsu in my Riekkan aces build. She sits right behind the Trench Boys(Luke, Biggs, Wedge) and keeps everyone who engages the escorts from getting away even if Intel is around. She is then used as a secondary bomber after the boys are done farming squads. In the last game I used her in, if if wasn't for my opponent burning his remaining brace token, she would have been the finishing blow on a Demo.

I haven't gotten the chance to run her yet, as I'm running Imperials in our current CC campaign, but my idea with her was a token fighter screen with some YT-1300's. She can tie up faster moving things to keep them in range of the slow moving 1300's, which obviously can eat quite a bit of damage. If you want to beef it up a bit, add Jan and Biggs.

I feel she also might pair well with E-Wings at hunting down squads if they try and flee.

One aspect of her ability that hasnt been mentioned is fighter in terrain are not considered engaged, so you can use her to prevent them from getting an alpha strike on something you care about.

Ive only used her once but when i did i thought she was pretty good.

1 minute ago, grandadmiralthrawn said:

One aspect of her ability that hasnt been mentioned is fighter in terrain are not considered engaged, so you can use her to prevent them from getting an alpha strike on something you care about.

Ive only used her once but when i did i thought she was pretty good.

Great point.

2 minutes ago, grandadmiralthrawn said:

One aspect of her ability that hasnt been mentioned is fighter in terrain are not considered engaged, so you can use her to prevent them from getting an alpha strike on something you care about.

Ive only used her once but when i did i thought she was pretty good.

Very nice, didn't even consider this use case.