29 minutes ago, Chris Montgomery said:

Having abruptly (apparently) dropped BL2E and re-releasing/updating games from the past, doesn't provide a great track record that the models I buy this year are going to be any use in 2 or 3 years

They never categorically said that Elves won't be coming for Battlelore at GenCon, in fact they said they won't talk about future products. To me that says the Elves will come for Battlelore but the resources were put into Runewars to get it ready for release. I also think Runewars, coupled with some lore books they said they were keen to work on, will end up getting an audience for the other Terrinoth games improving their support.

I wonder if they dropped prices due in part to pressure from retailers who also saw MSRP $30 as too high, and were worried about having a bunch of product that wouldn't sell... While there was a teapot tempest online among us (few!) active posters, I suspect feedback from stores was more influential

(just a guess, no idea why they dropped it)

11 hours ago, costi said:

Sure, but Skirmish is the "standard" game mode there, like 100/6 dogfight is in X-Wing.

Epic play in X-Wing also turns out to be pricey, but it's not what you usually play.

That depends. Tournament standard games are skirmish and would require both the core book (75) and the deluge (60) for the updated scenarios, additional effects, and so on. So, quite a bit on those two books alone! It's another 40 if your using a skirmish list from the new book too. Add in that skirmish of around 68. Like every miniature game, a skirmish force in bfas will only take you so far, you have little to no options, and some lists won't go as far as others before you need to expand it.

It can be a potential pit like every other miniature game.

8 hours ago, pancakeonions said:

I wonder if they dropped prices due in part to pressure from retailers who also saw MSRP $30 as too high, and were worried about having a bunch of product that wouldn't sell... While there was a teapot tempest online among us (few!) active posters, I suspect feedback from stores was more influential

(just a guess, no idea why they dropped it)

I'd add that if several players, as read throughout the forum, have cancelled their pre-order just because of those prices, this would make a non-negligible fact for FFG ! I'm still waiting for my beloved french retailer to open the pre-orders.

Impressed that ffg decided to lower the price of the expansions (if the $30 tag wasn't a mistake in the first place). I'm still on the fence about the game, as I don't have anyone to share a corebox (or two) with, and that really seems to be the way to go... I'll be patiently awaiting the next previews, of which hopefully there will be one on the miniatures. I would love to see some info on quality, customization options, a possible painting guide, pictures of actual blank production items and such.

5 hours ago, Vascopinto said:

Impressed that ffg decided to lower the price of the expansions (if the $30 tag wasn't a mistake in the first place). I'm still on the fence about the game, as I don't have anyone to share a corebox (or two) with, and that really seems to be the way to go... I'll be patiently awaiting the next previews, of which hopefully there will be one on the miniatures. I would love to see some info on quality, customization options, a possible painting guide, pictures of actual blank production items and such.

Where are you at?

Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

On 1/31/2017 at 2:34 PM, mulletcheese said:

That's the price range for ultra competitive worlds players, the rest of us chumps can just buy 4-5 ship's and have just as much fun on a much cheaper budget.

FFG did say we won't have to buy out of faction to get the upgrades so hopefully we won't see a money wins matches situation with runewars.

I do worry that the price of expansions will unbalance the game early on. IA is fantastic but as soon as it was released some players bought 4 core sets so they could run the 4x4 list. This list dominated IA for the first year and put a great game into a really bad competitive scene.

Yeah, that's totally understandable. X-Wing Core +3 Ships comes out to about $85. I suppose you could make it work for $55 if two buddies split two core sets, and then the rebel player picked up an extra ship.

By comparison, it looks like it would cost $150 minimum to field the most basic 200 point Runewars army. Not crazily more expensive, but not chump change either especially for the younger players out there.

1 hour ago, Elliphino said:

Yeah, that's totally understandable. X-Wing Core +3 Ships comes out to about $85. I suppose you could make it work for $55 if two buddies split two core sets, and then the rebel player picked up an extra ship.

By comparison, it looks like it would cost $150 minimum to field the most basic 200 point Runewars army. Not crazily more expensive, but not chump change either especially for the younger players out there.

And now that Banks (at least in my country) don't keep change in their chest anymore...bank hold-ups are no more a solution to have money...

I just noticed on UK Games Workshop "Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Bundle" at £105.40 ($131.6) - includes 47 Citadel miniatures, glue, clippers, brush and 13 paints, and undercoat. The figures are stunning.

Perhaps FFG could also support the other side of the minature gaming hobby, with some paints/tools ect and look at the level of detail against GW or reflect this in costs. Just a thought, if players are returning to minature games of this nature from a long break (like me) or just starting out they will need a game and also the tools/paints. GW looks like they are offering this and at a great cost with their starter bundle.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/AOS-Starter-Bundle-ENG-2016

29 minutes ago, Mighty Martin said:

I just noticed on UK Games Workshop "Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Bundle" at £105.40 ($131.6) - includes 47 Citadel miniatures, glue, clippers, brush and 13 paints, and undercoat. The figures are stunning.

Perhaps FFG could also support the other side of the minature gaming hobby, with some paints/tools ect and look at the level of detail against GW or reflect this in costs. Just a thought, if players are returning to minature games of this nature from a long break (like me) or just starting out they will need a game and also the tools/paints. GW looks like they are offering this and at a great cost with their starter bundle.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/AOS-Starter-Bundle-ENG-2016

Yeah, GW has REALLY lowered their barrier to entry in the last 2 years. Like, phenomenally so.

I think it's important to keep in mind (for us interested in Runewars) that the total potential cost is still lower, even if the barrier to entry is the same/higher.

But of course, people new to the hobby won't see this. So let's hope FFG markets this as a boardgame with figures, instead of a figures game. It'll be interesting!

Quote

So let's hope FFG markets this as a boardgame with figures, instead of a figures game. It'll be interesting!

But that'S not what it is so why market it as something it clearly isn't?

GW's Age of Sigmar experiment is quite nice, I wish they could of done with out shitting the lore, and has been a fresh strategy on them trying to make one of their games about 10 times more accessible. I've even heard the new rules/point system makes it some what interesting but GW's rules have always been notoriously sloppy so the way the game plays on the competitive table right now still isn't that great.

The reason I'm so happy to see Runewars miniatures come out is that I am excessively disappointed by the GW rule-sets. Version by version the tactical elements have disappeared in favour of dice rolls. In order to target younger audiences, they simplify and replace skill with luck. AoS is a major new step in this direction and has so little strategy that I finally turned away from the game. On top of this I find the minis perfectly ridiculous in their munchkin bodybuilding style.

All this to say that the price is not so important to me as good thinking adult's rules and support

6 minutes ago, Corto said:

The reason I'm so happy to see Runewars miniatures come out is that I am excessively disappointed by the GW rule-sets. Version by version the tactical elements have disappeared in favour of dice rolls. In order to target younger audiences, they simplify and replace skill with luck. AoS is a major new step in this direction and has so little strategy that I finally turned away from the game. On top of this I find the minis perfectly ridiculous in their munchkin bodybuilding style.

All this to say that the price is not so important to me as good thinking adult's rules and support

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I don't trust GW with rules. I don't trust them because I've played all their games, several of them for over a decade now. I have enough empirical evidence to support my conclusion that Games Workshop is far more interested in squeezing money out of players than they are in creating a good rule system, if only because they have a captive audience of people who have already invested so much cash they wouldn't dare quit playing.

FFG makes good rules. Period. Not always perfect, but always good, always interesting, and always with what weaknesses exist addressed quickly and concisely. They condense and simplify rule systems in elegant ways that remove all the BS overhead like stacks of codices and supplemental handbooks. They seem to follow a method of keeping customers that involves actually selling quality product, rather than dangling overpowered flavors of the month in front of their already-invested captives.

AoS isn't a *bad* game, it's just not a very interesting game. It's only *bad* when you take into account the game that it replaced, and the manner in which it was done. 40k is, arguably, a bad game in 7th ed.

I'd also agree that the models GW produces these days are the very definition of "overdesigned".

3 hours ago, Mighty Martin said:

Perhaps FFG could also support the other side of the minature gaming hobby, with some paints/tools ect and look at the level of detail against GW or reflect this in costs. Just a thought, if players are returning to minature games of this nature from a long break (like me) or just starting out they will need a game and also the tools/paints. GW looks like they are offering this and at a great cost with their starter bundle.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/AOS-Starter-Bundle-ENG-2016

FFG have stated they don't want to get into chemical industry to produce paints. I'm sure we'll see a sponsored paint pack by Army Painter though.

4 hours ago, Mighty Martin said:

I just noticed on UK Games Workshop "Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Bundle" at £105.40 ($131.6) - includes 47 Citadel miniatures, glue, clippers, brush and 13 paints, and undercoat. The figures are stunning.

Perhaps FFG could also support the other side of the minature gaming hobby, with some paints/tools ect and look at the level of detail against GW or reflect this in costs. Just a thought, if players are returning to minature games of this nature from a long break (like me) or just starting out they will need a game and also the tools/paints. GW looks like they are offering this and at a great cost with their starter bundle.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/AOS-Starter-Bundle-ENG-2016

that starter set is $175 on the US site, and I believe I heard somewhere of a potential partnership with The Army Painter for licensed sets similar to how they make stuff for KoW Zombicide and others... That bundle is an ok deal if you are getting into AoS but the GW 2player sets are never anywhere close to half an army and they don't really have the same trade value in many communities due to being modeled with specific options instead of being customizeable.

@Tvayumat

You are certainly right about WHF/40K being bad and in need of a rework, but I personally enjoyed the Lord of the Ring game and it's epic variant and would say the core rules aren't too bad, I have heard the same said about their Specialist Games and the books they released under the Warhammer Historical/Ancient Battles label, I got the pirate one (Legends of the High Seas or something like that) and it's quite fun.

3 hours ago, Muz333 said:

FFG have stated they don't want to get into chemical industry to produce paints. I'm sure we'll see a sponsored paint pack by Army Painter though.

FFG already has a deal in place with Army Painter... check out the Beasts Of War event at the end of March. The BoW guys stated FFG was working with them to release paints and also help teach people the game during their event weekend

9 hours ago, S0L said:

FFG already has a deal in place with Army Painter... check out the Beasts Of War event at the end of March. The BoW guys stated FFG was working with them to release paints and also help teach people the game during their event weekend

I thought that was the case, was going to go to the event with a friend but I doubt I could get the Friday off.

may have missed it but has anyone mentioned expansions are now listed at $24.95?

8 minutes ago, Hidatom said:

may have missed it but has anyone mentioned expansions are now listed at $24.95?

Yes it was already mentioned by Usaretama.

7 minutes ago, Hidatom said:

may have missed it but has anyone mentioned expansions are now listed at $24.95?

Yeah, it was mentioned on page 3. I thought it was a good thing until I read Julia's post. It seems FFG has been doing this a lot lately and that either means that they are trying to get away with higher prices until people outrage, or they are having a lot of internal miscommunication. Either way, it isn't a good sign.

1 minute ago, Budgernaut said:

Yeah, it was mentioned on page 3. I thought it was a good thing until I read Julia's post. It seems FFG has been doing this a lot lately and that either means that they are trying to get away with higher prices until people outrage, or they are having a lot of internal miscommunication. Either way, it isn't a good sign.

Let's have fun while the party goes on then, so we won't have any regret when the curtain falls...

5 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

Yeah, it was mentioned on page 3. I thought it was a good thing until I read Julia's post. It seems FFG has been doing this a lot lately and that either means that they are trying to get away with higher prices until people outrage, or they are having a lot of internal miscommunication. Either way, it isn't a good sign.

Which post do you speak of?