11 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:
The point that I was trying to get across (and mostly failed), was that a jump of 100+ points is certainly possible, if at the same time, they give you a large "centerpiece" model/unit that completely swallows those points alone.
A Colossal Monster, for example, rather than a unit of smaller Monsters, like Rune Golems.
Oh got it, I misunderstood your point a bit there.
I wouldn't rule out tournament formats at 2 different scales, say a 200 point tournament and a 400 point tournament, like they do for X-Wing Epic.
7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:
The point that I was trying to get across (and mostly failed), was that a jump of 100+ points is certainly possible, if at the same time, they give you a large "centerpiece" model/unit that completely swallows those points alone.
A Colossal Monster, for example, rather than a unit of smaller Monsters, like Rune Golems.
Gotta make room for Chaos Lords, Roc Warriors and Barrow Wyrms!
On 3/7/2017 at 1:04 PM, Tvayumat said:Gotta make room for Chaos Lords, Roc Warriors and Barrow Wyrms!
I really hope when they make things like this we see new types of trays that are large like 2x1 or 2x2 sized trays for really gigantic monsters
On 3/7/2017 at 11:42 AM, rudedog said:Armada went from 300 to 400, RWM will go from 200 to 300 (I hope).
the only reason Armada went from 300 to 400 was because they didn't have enough models out for a 400 point list to work like they wanted. They had planned on 400 points from before the game was released, they just needed to get enough models out there to make it work.
So unless they say something about increasing the point cost down the road, it's unlikely they will.
On 3/10/2017 at 9:54 AM, VanorDM said:the only reason Armada went from 300 to 400 was because they didn't have enough models out for a 400 point list to work like they wanted. They had planned on 400 points from before the game was released, they just needed to get enough models out there to make it work.
So unless they say something about increasing the point cost down the road, it's unlikely they will.
Yeah right (insert sarcastic face here)
Both x wing and Armada are played at double the points their games are recommend at in their respective starters, we'll see the same thing here without a doubt
I hope not to grow this limit of 200 points.
The game must to be something tactical and fast gamed. Not fielding huge blocks of infantry / cavalry / whatever vs your opponent. I prefer to have space to flank with other units
Any competitive format that requiere more than a morning / afternoon to play a store tournament is not good for popularity.
Just a marginal feedback on the whole question: I asked at my local GS about RuneWars and if people were asking for it. At the moment they got 0 preorders for the core set, and the shop decided not to stock the line because of the way expansions were priced. I know 1 single shop has no statistical meaning, but it's worth noticing I live in a city with a quarter of million of abitants, and there is only one shop that stocks miniature games, so, if they don't get it... true, people might get the game on-line, but still, it's a possibly interesting sign nonetheless
I often feel games work best at the point values designed by the developers and not the ones the community works. I ostensibly feel that both warmahordes worked better at 35 points until the community pushed it to 50, and 40k worked better at 1250-1800 points compared to whatever its played at now. Games tend to breakdown at a higher scale then what they were designed for.
I also inherently dislike *super massive* style models, they tend to turn games into skewfests or they don't actually represent such a destructive weapon/beast.
2 hours ago, Julia said:Just a marginal feedback on the whole question: I asked at my local GS about RuneWars and if people were asking for it. At the moment they got 0 preorders for the core set, and the shop decided not to stock the line because of the way expansions were priced. I know 1 single shop has no statistical meaning, but it's worth noticing I live in a city with a quarter of million of abitants, and there is only one shop that stocks miniature games, so, if they don't get it... true, people might get the game on-line, but still, it's a possibly interesting sign nonetheless
Meanwhile, in San Antonio, TX we have one store with ten boxes ordered and eight of them reserved that I know of, and two stores running release events.
There isn't *that* much hype about this game, but that's hardly surprising given that its a generic entry to the miniature market. I'm more interested in how the game does once a few people are demo-ing it among the people rather than trying to sell them on the idea alone.
1 hour ago, Tvayumat said:Meanwhile, in San Antonio, TX we have one store with ten boxes ordered and eight of them reserved that I know of, and two stores running release events.
There isn't *that* much hype about this game, but that's hardly surprising given that its a generic entry to the miniature market. I'm more interested in how the game does once a few people are demo-ing it among the people rather than trying to sell them on the idea alone.
this is the same at my FLGS in Orlando, FL also I know CoolStuffInc has several preorders at their stores.
Looking at 1:285 scale modern micro armor at GHQ website today. $11.95 for 5 Abrams M1A1 tanks. That's $2.39 per model. No rules, no dials, no movement trays, tokens, or upgrade cards. Also no intellectual property art, or design work of any kind... It's just a tiny tank. Or, $11.95 for a single AH-1 Super Cobra helicopter.
Suddenly the $3.12 per model price tag for Runewars looks like a bargain.
In my local store there is only 2 preorders. Mine and a friend. But I've talked with him to make some demos some afternoons in the shop. I'll try to get more adepts.
1 hour ago, Elliphino said:Looking at 1:285 scale modern micro armor at GHQ website today. $11.95 for 5 Abrams M1A1 tanks. That's $2.39 per model. No rules, no dials, no movement trays, tokens, or upgrade cards. Also no intellectual property art, or design work of any kind... It's just a tiny tank. Or, $11.95 for a single AH-1 Super Cobra helicopter.
Suddenly the $3.12 per model price tag for Runewars looks like a bargain.
To be fair, $11.95 will also get you ~60 of GHQ's 1/285 infantry figures (so $.20 per figure). You could fight a realistic, company-sized engagement with just a couple sets of infantry and 4-5 tanks per side. Of course, if you wanted to fight a battalion-level engagement, you'll want at least a few hundred infantry, 10-20 tanks, and various other support units. In the end, I'm not sure those two games are really that comparable on a figure for figure cost, given how different their philosophies, rules, and components are.
Also, I have to disagree with "no design work of any kind." A lot less work per item, sure, but they still have to design and make the prototypes and molds for production. You can't just upload a couple pictures onto a computer and have it spit out an accurate 3D model (if you could, model companies wouldn't spend time and money laser-scanning every surface of real planes and tanks in museums). They also sell a massively wider range of vehicles and figures than any FFG game, so the overall amount of work starts adding back up (and they'll probably make a less money on any given item they release, since sales would be spread out across their wider range). As a specific example, between their modern and WWII 1/285 armor lines, GHQ sells 33 different tank types for just the United States Army alone, covering a 60+ year period of time. And that's not counting the tank destroyers, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers, artillery, trucks, jeeps, etc. they also sell that were used by the US Army. Or any item from any other country.
@Aldaros Yep, totally agree, the total cost of the game is going to be much lower for GHQ microarmor. If I wanted to field an entire reinforced armored infantry battalion, I could do it for less than $100. And for my part, I've argued elsewhere that for me, the value proposition is the total cost of the game experience, rather than the per unit cost of its components (minis). This is more of a response to folks who see a different value proposition of price per mini, rather than price per game.
Good point too about the value of the game being dependent on the size of the range. The more models in the range, the deeper, more immersive, and varied the game experience can be. There's an important value proposition there too and one of the things that's exciting about being around at the beginning is to see that value growing. Of course that reminds me that one of the most important value propositions in a game is the number of people playing and the ease of networking into games. It's been super easy to get games of X-Wing the last couple of years, but harder and harder to get games of Warhammer and even 40k. Don't even get me started on Robotech RPG Tactics 
. In a way, that makes my approximately $500 investment in X-Wing much more valuable than my god-only-knows how large an investment in GW games... at least $2000+
And also, thanks for calling out my hyperbole on "no design work of any kind". I was really thinking about concept through execution, but you're right that there is real creative and valuable skill that goes into designing and producing minis, even if the concepts are given. Credit where credit is due to GHQ. I obviously wouldn't even be considering anything from them if they didn't apply their talent and effort towards the hobby.
I think that if they took the BIG step to provide prepainted minis (even X-wing tabletop level of painting) they would just blow away the competition even with high price tags...but that is just my opinion...
11 minutes ago, Dayne said:I think that if they took the BIG step to provide prepainted minis (even X-wing tabletop level of painting) they would just blow away the competition even with high price tags...but that is just my opinion...
I diasagree. You'd probably be talking at least $2 per figure for a poor paintjob. The increased costs would put it out of reach of boardgamers and the poor paintjobs would make it undesirable to wargamers.
1 hour ago, Dayne said:I think that if they took the BIG step to provide prepainted minis (even X-wing tabletop level of painting) they would just blow away the competition even with high price tags...but that is just my opinion...
As someone new to painting, these will be my first set, I'd rather buy grey plastic than see 50 d&d paint quality minis.
1 hour ago, Dayne said:I think that if they took the BIG step to provide prepainted minis (even X-wing tabletop level of painting) they would just blow away the competition even with high price tags...but that is just my opinion...
if these were pre painted i wouldnt be interested. re painting minis is a real pain
10 minutes ago, Klaxas said:if these were pre painted i wouldnt be interested. re painting minis is a real pain
Why not pay for a friend or local painting service to paint the mini's for you? It's no different that if the figures came prepainted but at increased cost.
6 minutes ago, Muz333 said:Why not pay for a friend or local painting service to paint the mini's for you? It's no different that if the figures came prepainted but at increased cost.
i think you miss understood my post. i do not want pre painted miniatures. re-painting them is a pain. i would rather have bare plastic so i can paint it right the first time.
3 minutes ago, Klaxas said:i think you miss understood my post. i do not want pre painted miniatures. re-painting them is a pain. i would rather have bare plastic so i can paint it right the first time.
Right you are, just back from the pub so my reading comprehension isn't the best!
2 hours ago, Dayne said:I think that if they took the BIG step to provide prepainted minis (even X-wing tabletop level of painting) they would just blow away the competition even with high price tags...but that is just my opinion...
Paintedfigs.com
I know the owner very well, he's a gamer and a great guy, the prices are very reasonable and you can get your army done to an excellent standard. I'm an excellent painter, and even I've had them do some of my stuff.
I have to disagree with you. As user interested mainly on board games and not war games I would really appreciate prepainted miniatures.
X-Wing was a really good example how prepainted miniatures could introduce a lot of people into skirmish miniatures games.
Some of us are not really interested on painting miniatures. I don't have time for this. When I get some time I just want to play. Prepainted miniatures on this game could introduce much more people than people gone because of this.
6 minutes ago, Hijodecain said:I have to disagree with you. As user interested mainly on board games and not war games I would really appreciate prepainted miniatures.
X-Wing was a really good example how prepainted miniatures could introduce a lot of people into skirmish miniatures games.
Some of us are not really interested on painting miniatures. I don't have time for this. When I get some time I just want to play. Prepainted miniatures on this game could introduce much more people than people gone because of this.
There are several factors to consider, though...
Firstly, the X-Wing and Armada pre-paints are much simpler affairs. A handful of colors, base grays, a black wash, and a few hull markings are much, much easier to do on an assembly line than the sort of detail involved in human figures. In fact, these games are far from normal, they are almost completely anomalous in that they provide painted figures, but also comparatively few. A "unit" in X-Wing is one fighter, as opposed to 8-50 skeleton warriors. It's not feasible to expect a game like RuneWars to come pre-painted.
Secondly, assuming they *did* go ahead and pre-paint these figures, the price would skyrocket. Myself and many others would much rather receive MORE miniatures rather than fewer, okay-ish looking painted figures.
Furthermore, and as mentioned, those of us who *do* like to paint our own miniatures would be pretty instantly turned off by crappy, detail obscuring paint jobs (they would be, see Heroclix) that we would then have to strip and re-paint.
It sounds like Runewars isn't the game for you, if you can't stomach playing with unpainted miniatures, or devoting 15 minutes a day for a while to get your army up to tabletop standards.
That's fine. There are plenty of skirmish level games made for folk who don't want the experience Runewars has set out to provide.
