Yeah they clearly play very differently, Cracks are coming in looking to kill something ASAP while Snaps are primarily trying to stay alive and just chip away.
So you'd rather have 4 'good' Snappers than 5 'cheap' snappers?
Pure Snapshot
29 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:Yeah they clearly play very differently, Cracks are coming in looking to kill something ASAP while Snaps are primarily trying to stay alive and just chip away.
So you'd rather have 4 'good' Snappers than 5 'cheap' snappers?
Awings would be the only "good" Snappers to me due to being able to abuse PTL in addition to Snapping. I'd take 4 Awings with PTL+Snap+Title+CharRefit+VTs over 5 with Snap+Crack+CharRefit+Title any day. Theyre 24pts with that build, so even got a 4pt bid (which actually now that i think about it DOES matter in case you face Defenders you can snap before they get the evade token)
Pretty much any other ship though, more snaps the better. I'd rather field 5-6 BlackSnaps than 2-3 plus a good Ace.
8 hours ago, darthlurker said:You can also add an ARC with Weapons Engineer and M9-G8 to the list to be able to reroll a die on all 4 A-Wing attacks. You can round the list off with anything you like but Biggs fits in perfectly.
Nope, Snap shot specifically says " You Cannot Modify this Attack " There is no work around. The dice rolled is the dice rolled, not even Palp can change that . If you take snap shot the only thing you can do is modify your opponents defense rolls. However there is a lot of dice control not just for your own dice but for your opponent's dice as well. Which can make some games very frustrating. "Here let me roll your dice for you and wow, what a bad roll I would choose not to make it better so you lose."
Palp and M9G8 can change that as long as they arent on the ship firing the snapshot. This has been discussed over and over and over, the ruling for Palp against Omega Leader is the deal breaker here: M9G8 and Palp are the ones modding the dice, not the ship attacking, thus "You cannot mod your dice" does not apply as "you" is the ship in question, not the player. When Palp or M9G8's card goes off, since its on a different ship, "You" refers to that ship for their ability, meaning the ship with the "you cant mod dice" effect isnt the same "you"
The reason nothing else works is because its not the other ship causing/forcing the mod, its allowing the ship in question the option. M9G8 and Palp does not give the ship in question a choice (players choice is not the argument here), if they trigger then that ship MUST reroll a die or mod to a specific die result.
It has to be worded that way otherwise M9G8 on an enemy ship would do nothing beneficial
.
6 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:
Yep, Snap Shot + Operations Specialist jumped out to me, too. Mostly after I had a bad run-in with Hotshot Copilot Chiraneau. That was a sad, sad match. Snap Shot really amps up the number of focus tokens, which is really nice. For a while I was really jazzed about Snap Shot on my generic TIE/sf's, supported by the Upsilon with Operations Specialist...and then it sank in that Snap Shot only works out the front arc. Still, You can put Sensor Cluster on those guys and get a lot of mileage out of the extra focus tokens from Operations Specialist, especially with the option to shoot fore and aft in a single round. Probably worth trying, but not necessarily with Snap Shot.
I think Snap Blacks are probably a better buy, especially Snap Mithel. Mmmm!
1 hour ago, Marinealver said:Nope, Snap shot specifically says " You Cannot Modify this Attack " There is no work around. The dice rolled is the dice rolled, not even Palp can change that . If you take snap shot the only thing you can do is modify your opponents defense rolls. However there is a lot of dice control not just for your own dice but for your opponent's dice as well. Which can make some games very frustrating. "Here let me roll your dice for you and wow, what a bad roll I would choose not to make it better so you lose."
You refers to the ship the card is equipped to, not you the player.
2 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:Palp and M9G8 can change that as long as they arent on the ship firing the snapshot. This has been discussed over and over and over, the ruling for Palp against Omega Leader is the deal breaker here: M9G8 and Palp are the ones modding the dice, not the ship attacking, thus "You cannot mod your dice" does not apply as "you" is the ship in question, not the player. When Palp or M9G8's card goes off, since its on a different ship, "You" refers to that ship for their ability, meaning the ship with the "you cant mod dice" effect isnt the same "you"
The reason nothing else works is because its not the other ship causing/forcing the mod, its allowing the ship in question the option. M9G8 and Palp does not give the ship in question a choice (players choice is not the argument here), if they trigger then that ship MUST reroll a die or mod to a specific die result.
It has to be worded that way otherwise M9G8 on an enemy ship would do nothing beneficial .
1 hour ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:You refers to the ship the card is equipped to, not you the player.
FAQ incoming. But I am sure the whole point of snap shot when they said You cannot they mean YOU CANNOT MODIFY THE DICE YOU ROLL FOR SNAP SHOT ! Palp, MG-98, TO from last tournament sayzso, whatever. You roll the two red dice and that is it. You can add a die, you can modify your defender's die.
Either way accretion and off phase attacks is going to make some convoluted game rules.
Edited by MarinealverOmega Leader says YOU cannot mod your dice if he has you TL'd, yet FAQ says Palp can do it anyway (unless hes the ship TL'd of course).
Thats the argument. Its literally the same exact wording, except one is a reroll one is a flatout mod.
Dont like it? Argue your point on the dozens of threads in the rules forum that will make the same exact points.
Edited by Vineheart015 minutes ago, Marinealver said:FAQ incoming. But I am sure the whole point of snap shot when they said You cannot they mean YOU CANNOT MODIFY THE DICE YOU ROLL FOR SNAP SHOT ! Palp, MG-98, TO from last tournament sayzso, whatever. You roll the two red dice and that is it. You can add a die, you can modify your defender's die.
This interaction is directly comparable to the Palpatine/Omega Leader situation that was ruled on about a year ago. That interaction is discussed here and a discussion on Snap Shot's interaction with M9-G8 can be viewed here . They're directly comparable because of the definition of "you" in this game refers to the ship the upgrade card is on and not the player. If, for example, OL is defending from an attack from a ship that has Zuckuss equipped and he has that ship locked, Zuckuss cannot force OL to reroll his agility dice because Zuckuss is the source of the dice modification despite the fact that it's not the owner of the Zuckuss card that's physically rerolling the dice. On the other hand, if the dice modification is coming from a third ship (such as Palpatine on the shuttle or M9-G8 on an ARC), the dice CAN be modified because it's not "you" that is modifying them but the third ship. Finally, notice the difference in phrasing between the Snap Shot text and that of Accuracy Corrector; the first says "you cannot modify your attack dice" and the latter says "your dice cannot be modified again."
46 minutes ago, Marinealver said:
FAQ incoming. But I am sure the whole point of snap shot when they said You cannot they mean YOU CANNOT MODIFY THE DICE YOU ROLL FOR SNAP SHOT ! Palp, MG-98, TO from last tournament sayzso, whatever. You roll the two red dice and that is it. You can add a die, you can modify your defender's die.
Either way accretion and off phase attacks is going to make some convoluted game rules.
If the "You cannot modify your attack dice" refers to the player and not the ship, the "and cannot attack again this phase" that comes after, also refers to the player and not the ship? Well, that would be a lot more grievous.
Only one unmodified 2 red dice shoot in a round for your whole army...
So in other words, you can make a situation where you control all the dice. Even when others can't. X-wing is starting to get a little too bloated in power rules.
Snap shot juke Nora means I reroll all my dice turn your evades into focus before you get a token to say otherwise. I roll guarantee to hit, you roll guaranteed to get hit and I won. Game Over.
Terrible game mechanics IMHO, I know the saying fickle green dice but now you might as well not roll dice (even though rules state you have to roll dice). But again why roll dice when it doesn't matter. Anyways this is getting off on a tangent and is a bigger problem which needs its own topic.
25 minutes ago, Marinealver said:So in other words, you can make a situation where you control all the dice. Even when others can't. X-wing is starting to get a little too bloated in power rules.
Snap shot juke Nora means I reroll all my dice turn your evades into focus before you get a token to say otherwise. I roll guarantee to hit, you roll guaranteed to get hit and I won. Game Over.
Terrible game mechanics IMHO, I know the saying fickle green dice but now you might as well not roll dice (even though rules state you have to roll dice). But again why roll dice when it doesn't matter. Anyways this is getting off on a tangent and is a bigger problem which needs its own topic.
Norra can't get both juke and snap shot, you need an Awing for that.
Also Norra can't reroll any of her red dice when using snap shot, she just can waste a TL to add an eye (waste because she can't modify that eye).
Also Norra have no evade action to proc Juke, so she can't modify your defense. And even if she have two EPT and evade action, she can only use Juke if she move before you, son only against PS>7 pilots.
So no, you don't roll guaranteed to hit, you have the traditional 75% of hit with two unmodified red dice. And no, I don't roll guaranteed to get hit...
On the other side, Mithel and Palpatine together can made a nasty snap shot. But aggain, only with unmodified defense against high PS oponents.
Edited by Draconis HegemoniaTheres very little guaranteed damage in this game. Theres more and more insanely reliable damage, but outside Autoblasters theres very, very little "Take the damage i dont care what you rolled" attacks.
Anyway...back on topic..
I sent that Rhymer + 4Snapblacks list to a friend and he quote "Dude i swear to god if you run that against me imma punch you" LOL. Even someone who never sees snapshot noticed why that was so potent: OpSpec
4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:Theres very little guaranteed damage in this game. Theres more and more insanely reliable damage, but outside Autoblasters theres very, very little "Take the damage i dont care what you rolled" attacks.
Actually there is more than what there used to be. Snap Juke can be a I don't care what your green dice rolled for 1 agility ships.
4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:Anyway...back on topic..
Sure thing, Use Snapshot in conjunction with stuff that allows you to modify dice. Modifying dice is almost always better than +1 die. (Early proton torpedos and concussion missiles proved that).
1 hour ago, Marinealver said:Actually there is more than what there used to be. Snap Juke can be a I don't care what your green dice rolled for 1 agility ships.
Actually Wedge don't care what your green dice rolled for 1 agility ships from the very first wave, or any other ship with outmaneuver... and those examples not even need snapshot + juke + lower PS + range 1 (a fairly difficult and costly combo limited to the greens Awing, and well, the Awing need al the help they can get).
What about three greens with snap and outmanuver and then tycho with swarm leader and rage.
Highly situational, outmanuver need you not being in the firing arc of the defender.
Opportunist could do better, but I think juke is the best option, more evento if you want a swarm leader
I'm going to run that mixed As/TIEs list of mine on Friday, just to get a feel for it.
I love a swarm, though I don't believe in Snap Shot. But I should give it a try to see if the style of flying comes naturally or not. I guess you're mostly looking at 'area denial', almost like every ship drops a Proxy Mine out the front every turn.
Area denial is a good way to look at Snapshot. The moment your opponent goes "Ah phooey its just 2dice!" and dives into 2-3 snapshots is the moment he gets wrecked before he does his actions. And if he is worried about it odds are hes losing a ton of shots on you trying to avoid it.
6 hours ago, Draconis Hegemonia said:Highly situational, outmanuver need you not being in the firing arc of the defender.
Opportunist could do better, but I think juke is the best option, more evento if you want a swarm leader
Swarm Leader and Juke work against each other, since one takes away the evades the other needs to change green dice.
9 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:Swarm Leader and Juke work against each other, since one takes away the evades the other needs to change green dice.
Only if the swarm leader fires before the other ships. Juke by itself doesn't take away the evades.
2 minutes ago, Draconis Hegemonia said:Only if the swarm leader fires before the other ships. Juke by itself doesn't take away the evades.
Tycho is an 8.
2 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:Tycho is an 8.
PS8 shoot after the snap shoots.
Just now, Draconis Hegemonia said:PS8 shoot after the snap shoots.
And then their normal attacks can't hit.
I'm coming off a little dismissive. You're right that this can go well for the initial snaps, but I think the good thing about a snap list is how you can get attack after attack and whittle through token stacks. That's why I don't want to follow up with unmodified two-die attacks, and why I made a thread about the best way to use Sabaac, since 4/3 die are so much better.