8 minutes ago, RogueLieutenant said:

I'll be surprised if we don't see a vader attachment in the new BT-1 and 0-0-0 pack coming out.

Sadly, there isn't any card face down. If you see the picture there are only three cards (BT-1, 0-0-0 and a skirmish upgrade). It seems like not will be vader changes in a few months so i'm doing that home made card to play with my friends.

1 minute ago, naitsirk said:

Sadly, there isn't any card face down. If you see the picture there are only three cards (BT-1, 0-0-0 and a skirmish upgrade). It seems like not will be vader changes in a few months so i'm doing that home made card to play with my friends.

ah. I didn't go back to look at the picture. That's a shame. Though I suspect we'll see some more unique upgrades like Iggy's in the future.

Quickly pitching this, what about:

0

Exhaust the attachment to ready your deployment card.

When it comes to fixing Vader - I imagine there are two rough approaches - reducing his points cost or improving his actual card.

If they were to 'make him worth 18 points' that might be dangerous for the meta game, because then he just becomes a really powerful points fortress.

So I think he needs to come down in points and to maybe get some sort of movement boost, whilst also not being fast somehow...

3 hours ago, Norgrath said:

Quickly pitching this, what about:

0

Exhaust the attachment to ready your deployment card.

This would be too much! 2 activations every round? 18 points seems like a gift with this haha

Let's go to put all the ideas. I would like you to choose wich 3 abilities of the list to include in the Vader's home fix:

A-Sith March: Whenever Darth Vader defeats a figure, gain 1 movement point

B-Special Action: Force Shove. Choose a small figure within 3 spaces. Push that figure 2 spaces. That figure takes 1 points of damage.

C-Chosen One: When a card or ability chooses one or more of your dice to reroll, you may choose whether to reroll them

D-After use force choke, you can move the affected figure up to 3 spaces.

E-Echaust this card during your activation to gain 2 movement points

F-All hostile figures with a deployment cost of 6 or less within 3 spaces become weakened

G-All hostile figures with a deployment cost of 6 or less within 3 spaces become stunned

H- All hostile figures with a deployment cost of 6 or less within 3 spaces must spend two actions to perform a movement.

I- Another one (explain what)

Thanks all for the answer, i think we are in a good way together

Give him "Reach" and "~ Deadly". Just those changes would help a lot. Maybe "at the start of your activation, gain 2 movement points" too.

Though I think there are probably more thematic changes you could make, like giving him a Force Throw, or an "intimidating presence" aura effect.

1 hour ago, Stompburger said:

Give him "Reach" and "~ Deadly". Just those changes would help a lot. Maybe "at the start of your activation, gain 2 movement points" too.

Though I think there are probably more thematic changes you could make, like giving him a Force Throw, or an "intimidating presence" aura effect.

I'm sure they don't want to add "deadly" to vader cause they already did the "deadly precision" command card but would be nice.

I dont feel reach would be thematically for vader but sure it helps a lot.

I don't think deadly and reach are the answer, just like how I don't think changing brutality to heroic is the answer. Mechanically, it works but you lose the thematic and uniqueness of Vader

Vader needs to be Vader, with his own special abilities. Thematic is how they are start and then just make the mechanics work with it

I think the moving in between brutality is gold, a nice mechanical fix to the ability while keeping the favor. The darkside aura is also another key iconic ability, unique to vader. Other mechanical improvements like extra MP or adjusting force choke would just be icing on the cake (which I won't complain about :D)

On 1/30/2017 at 10:45 AM, naitsirk said:

I just created a B option with all your feedback.

What about??

* Weakened (errata)

What program are you using to make this? There has to be something better than paint!!!

On 1/2/2017 at 7:07 PM, frotes said:

I don't think deadly and reach are the answer, just like how I don't think changing brutality to heroic is the answer. Mechanically, it works but you lose the thematic and uniqueness of Vader

Vader needs to be Vader, with his own special abilities. Thematic is how they are start and then just make the mechanics work with it

I think the moving in between brutality is gold, a nice mechanical fix to the ability while keeping the favor. The darkside aura is also another key iconic ability, unique to vader. Other mechanical improvements like extra MP or adjusting force choke would just be icing on the cake (which I won't complain about :D)

the answer is in all the things you said here. With some testing i can tell you, vader is awesome and worth his half army points.

On 2/1/2017 at 1:03 PM, naitsirk said:

I'm sure they don't want to add "deadly" to vader cause they already did the "deadly precision" command card but would be nice.

I dont feel reach would be thematically for vader but sure it helps a lot.

I don't think they have any problems making their old command cards obsolete (activation passing and the new points scoring system are two examples). I don't like that his attack can be dodged by a lowly Rebel Trooper; maybe there's another way to deal with this.

In the recent video they talked about how Jabba changes how the game is played just by being in your list - I think Vader should do the same. Jabba does that at 6; Vader should definitely do it at 18, and to do so he needs to be a lot more than points denial.

How about, "Before you declare an attack, if the target is in your line of sight you may push it up to 2 spaces to a space adjacent to you. If the target has a figure cost of 4 or less, remove all dice from its defense pool".

I think that's more thematic than him moving between attacks - instead of moving, he pulls enemies to them (and if they're weak enough, immobilizes them).

I like the "Weaken aura" though. It makes sense thematically and makes him have an impact even when he's not activating.

I really don't want additional cards to balance the older cards that have been replaced. That adds clutter and layers of obfuscation to the game.

FFG should just errata the old cards. Either make them worth their points in comparison to the modern releases OR lower their costs. I'd like to see Vader stay incredibly expensive, but just more worth those points.

Finally, i think this is the most balanced with some testing

I'm really playing the role of the critic here, but I think you need to change the name of the card to "Power of the Dark Side."

I would also make it a 2 point card and add Assault - You can perform multiple attacks each activation. Can you imagine the command card "Lord of the Sith" with Brutality AND Assault!? That is the Rogue One scene!

Even better, upon deployment, choose either +5 health and Immune - You cannot gain HARMFUL conditions or Assault - You can perform multiple attacks each activation.

Then he'd absolutely be worth half of your deployment points!

On 02/02/2017 at 6:34 PM, Quigman said:

What program are you using to make this? There has to be something better than paint!!!

I used photoshop. I made an empty card using the zillo technique picture from this web

15 hours ago, Quigman said:

I'm really playing the role of the critic here, but I think you need to change the name of the card to "Power of the Dark Side."

I would also make it a 2 point card and add Assault - You can perform multiple attacks each activation. Can you imagine the command card "Lord of the Sith" with Brutality AND Assault!? That is the Rogue One scene!

Even better, upon deployment, choose either +5 health and Immune - You cannot gain HARMFUL conditions or Assault - You can perform multiple attacks each activation.

Then he'd absolutely be worth half of your deployment points!

I tested vader with assault and is that good but when you use his command card is a breaking game ! He can not do all the attack he wish because with his command card he can literally kill all of the enemy's army (with a little luck or with combos with force use cards + attacks).

Definitively he can,t attack more than 2 times. I want him to be nice playable not breaking the game. By one point you have unshakable to be "inmune" to harmful.

Perhaps he need more health cause everybody had 15 or 16 now for only 10-12 points....

PD.:Yeah i must correct the dark side

5 minutes ago, naitsirk said:

I used photoshop. I made an empty card using the zillo technique picture from this web

That's what I figured.

I've got to learn how to use that program. Paint gets rid of the imperial/rebel/mercenary logo in the back when you remove text .

It's also a pain in the a$$ manipulating the picture you want to use. I'm almost done Yoda, I just have to add the ability text and he'll be done for a play test!

So I may be a little late to this party, but I came up with this. I think its thematic and fun, please critique.

Lord Vader’s Wrath

Lose Force Choke

More Machine Than Man: This figure cannot be assigned conditions.

Shock and Awe: Any non-unique, non-droid hostile figure that begins its activation within 3 spaces of this figure and is within line of sight of this figure immediately gains the Stunned condition

(Action) Power Of The Dark Side: Choose a figure within line of sight and perform one of the following:
- Deal two damage.
- Move that figure up to two spaces.
- That figure gains the stunned condition.
You may then exhaust this card to perform an attack. (You cannot do this if you have performed the Brutality action this activation)

You cannot perform the Brutality action if this card is exhausted.

On 26/2/2017 at 1:45 PM, lordkane995 said:

So I may be a little late to this party, but I came up with this. I think its thematic and fun, please critique.

Lord Vader’s Wrath

Lose Force Choke

More Machine Than Man: This figure cannot be assigned conditions.

Shock and Awe: Any non-unique, non-droid hostile figure that begins its activation within 3 spaces of this figure and is within line of sight of this figure immediately gains the Stunned condition

(Action) Power Of The Dark Side: Choose a figure within line of sight and perform one of the following:
- Deal two damage.
- Move that figure up to two spaces.
- That figure gains the stunned condition.
You may then exhaust this card to perform an attack. (You cannot do this if you have performed the Brutality action this activation)

You cannot perform the Brutality action if this card is exhausted.

Shock and awe sounds too powerful. People start to use vader running throw the enemy forces and then use the rest of the list to hunt them down.

I don't understand the exhaust hability. It means that you don't spend action to attack? This would means that brutality have no sense if you can do 2 attacks, one by action and another by exhaust.

Perhaps stunning with force choke is an option to ensure the enemy don't flee from vader position.

Ah men, i love this design speculations

2 hours ago, naitsirk said:

Shock and awe sounds too powerful. People start to use vader running throw the enemy forces and then use the rest of the list to hunt them down.

I don't understand the exhaust hability. It means that you don't spend action to attack? This would means that brutality have no sense if you can do 2 attacks, one by action and another by exhaust.

Perhaps stunning with force choke is an option to ensure the enemy don't flee from vader position.

Ah men, i love this design speculations

Both fair observations. The whole idea of the exhaust ability was to not allow Vader to get too many attacks in one activation. I failed to realise that he could Brutality twice in one turn anyway. Also I see what you mean about the stun. I've had a think and made changes below.

Lord Vader’s Wrath

Lose Force Choke

More Machine Than Man: This figure cannot be assigned conditions.

Shock and Awe: Any non-unique, non-droid hostile figure within 3 spaces of this figure and is within line of sight must use two movement points to exit it's space.

(Action) Power Of The Dark Side: Choose a figure within line of sight and perform one of the following:
- Deal two damage.
- Move that figure up to two spaces.
- That figure gains the stunned condition.
You may then exhaust this card to perform an attack. (You cannot exhaust this card if you have performed an attack action this activation)

You cannot perform an attack action if this card is exhausted.

---

Changed shock and awe to slowing enemies down rather than stunning.

The power of the dark side idea is to give Vader an "effective movement" of 6 i.e. move 4 drag them in 2 and attack. Or allow it to be used to position enemies to make full use of brutality without giving too many attacks (max of 3 in one turn using brutality once.) Rather than make him faster because I prefer the idea of his slow implacable march across the battle field controlling it with his force powers.

For campaign, on top of Brutality, Force Choke and Foresight, I'm thinking about adding the following changes :

- Darth Vader cannot be assigned conditions (He should benefits from his two activations, instead of losing one and becoming useless. And he's a Sith Lord! And was considered at some point to be one of the most powerful jedi!)

- After a "long-range" attack (blaster symbol) targeting you or an adjacent friendly figure resolves, a maximum of 2 damages you or the adjacent friendly figure would have suffered are redirected to a hostile figure of your choice in your line of sight.

The latter is a bit more powerful than Jedi Luke's Deflect. For example, if an attack on Vader puts 7 damages and Vader rolls 4 blocks that would normally result in Vader suffering 3 damages. But with the upgraded Deflect, Vader will redirect 2 damages he would have suffered to hostile figure in his line of sight. So the final result is Vader only suffering 1 damage. If you keep your troops close to Vader, he should be able to do some damage to compensate for his "low" speed and difficulties to get at close range from the coward rebel scums. And he can still force choke for some more damage during his activation. With the changes, Vader would still cost 18, because I think he's more powerful this way.

On 2/2/2017 at 5:25 PM, Arttemis said:

I really don't want additional cards to balance the older cards that have been replaced. That adds clutter and layers of obfuscation to the game.

FFG should just errata the old cards. Either make them worth their points in comparison to the modern releases OR lower their costs. I'd like to see Vader stay incredibly expensive, but just more worth those points.

Agreed. And if we need seperate Vaders for Campaign and Skirmish, so be it. But I don't like the idea of having these "fixes", especially when it's well known that the allies/villains in campaign are still far from perfect. Seriously, it's a bit silly that Chewie will almost never get picked, but Hera is almost going to be a requirement to bring.

Yeah...additional cards will get really messy.

So many deployment cards are in a tough spot. Does FFG "re-print" the cards with an errata version? Do they make a new version?

IG-88 with the specific upgrade I believe is the direction they'll stick with sadly.

3 hours ago, Quigman said:

Yeah...additional cards will get really messy.

So many deployment cards are in a tough spot. Does FFG "re-print" the cards with an errata version? Do they make a new version?

IG-88 with the specific upgrade I believe is the direction they'll stick with sadly.

Possibly.

I haven't played IG-88 in a campaign yet, so I can't say if he's broken or not.

However, in Iggy's specific case, "upgrades" make thematic sense, at least. For other characters, it would be a little sillier- though I guess upgrades could represent expanded gear or training.