Hey guys, how about we standardize a naming convention for lists. I love list nicknames, let's keep them. But for the uninitiated and random lists: can we use this format? Its fast to read, immediately you can determine ship firepower, and squadron plan:

List Nickname - ShipLetters, AdmiralLastName, Notes, #sq(uadrons)-squadronType, #b(id)

Examples:

Best Thing Since the Senate Dissolution - VVRZZ Jerjerrod FC 8sq-AA-TF 3bid

What can I read from this immediately?

Its 5 activations.
It has 2.5 ships worth of firepower: 2 VSD and 1 Raider
It has 8 tie fighters meant for AA
It has Flight Controllers which is the main gimmick of the list
It likely doesn't really care first or second, or likes second, due to bid 3.
Jerjerrod makes the maneuverability easier.
Analysis: I like this list. It attempts to be competitive in activations and ship firepower, and has a plan for squadrons. It has a snazzy nickname.

SSCTT Mothma 4sq-aces 3bid

5 Activations
3 ships of firepower - 2 Torpedo Shrimps, 1 CR90
Squadrons for AA, possibly rogue
Bid is confusing -> Likely needs tweaking here.
Analysis: This list needs works. Probably not enough AA cover, needs higher bid for 1st, which it seems to want due to Shrimps and Mothma

Ship Letters:

Imp:

I - ISD
V - VSD
N - Interdictor
G - Gladiator
R - Raider
Q - Arquitens
Z - Gozanti

Rebel:

H - Home One
L - Liberty
F - Assault Frigate
P - Pelta
S - Mc30 "Shrimp" Frigate
N - Nebulon
C - CR90
T - Transport flotilla

Nicknames are cool, but if you aren't in the in group, you kind of feel excluded when everyone makes jokes about it. Heck, I dunno what Dodonna the Oppressor is. Though seriously, keep using the nicknames, they're much more characteristic. =)

We aren't getting any official support to grow this community, and growth requires organization (and order!, cue General Hux).

Think of this as a nice thing to do everyone for the transparency of data.

Example lists:

VVRZZ MoffyJJ s8AA 3b
Author: BlailBlerg

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
= 91 total ship cost

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
= 84 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 56 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 48 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
3 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 24 points)
1 Black Squadron ( 9 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 Captain Jonus ( 16 points)

Card view link

Fleet

SSCTT Mothma s4

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 398/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon

Navigation Objective: Navigational Hazards

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)

- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 94 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)

- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 86 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)

- Bright Hope ( 2 points)

- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

= 64 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)

= 25 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)

- Jainas Light ( 2 points)

- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

= 46 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

1 Han Solo ( 26 points)

1 Dash Rendar ( 24 points)

Card view link

Probably too much ship, not enough squadrons.

I used to save my list PDF files from Fabs in a similar format

I'm totally willing to hear if there's a better shorthand that's even more informative btw. This is my giving to the community.
If you guys think its too forced, that's fine too.

I think if you study enough to get much out of the shorthand, you almost certainly know all the cool nicknames already.. interesting idea but I think you want the easiest to translate shorthand..

I don't know the nicknames. Either way, its more about general list naming.

The squadrons are an important part of the list, but I think i'll just put the points of squadrons. 8 tie fighters is easy to read, but a bunch of aces or rogues or whatnot could get annoying. The points invested should give some idea as to the role, and the post can provide the details. After all, 64 points is likely 8 ties or some A wings or whatever, whereas 134 is going to be an important part of the list, whatever it is.

Oh and I'd skip the notation about the gimmick, because that's what the post (& maybe the nickname) is for.

In summation, my preference is below:

List Nickname - ShipLetters, AdmiralLastName, Squadron points, Bid

I like the idea, but as a 'casual' in the listian world this is gonna be pretty opaque and I'm keeping with a few of my usual conventions*. I like where it's going, admittedly, but what about futureproofing names? We'll be handing out some pretty random letters soon enough: Hammerhead corvette, quasar carrier, MC75. Three fairly obvious choices, and we get H,Q, and P respectively (P for Profundity). Maybe 2 part names could be better even if it's a longer read?

I do think the notes section and squadron type need to be simplified while bids might just be better written as points to account for non-standard lists. Notes feel extraneous while I do think squadron types might better be reduced to A, S, or N (anti 'aircraft', anti 'ship', and neutral. Want to add in the 'aces' prefix, which might be good, then it could be AA, AS, or AN)

*Usual conventions being a list prefix is all: T (Casual tournament), RT (Regional tournament), CK (Ceknell, that's me' own blasted campaign is all), CC (Corellian campaign), and nothing for standard.

But I do rather like where it's going. Using my current Corellian fleet I get:

CC-"Liberators" FSCCTT Mothma 12-A, 500

Honestly, this sort of thing is probably better done by the various listing websites.

The user calls the list whatever its called, and the website auto generates the short hand.

People are generally terrible at following these sorts of rules, computers, surprisingly, are not.

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ship Letters:

Imp:

I - ISD
V - VSD
N - Interdictor
G - Gladiator
R - Raider
Q - Arquitens
Z - Gozanti

When I name my vassal logs (so that I can quickly bring up the fleets) I save them to a very similar convention. I do total points, commander, and then ship/squad layout.

My letters are: I,V,Int,G,T,A,Gz

So my Worldcup fleet is: 399 Motti IGGzGz Heavy Antisquad.

I like your convention better!

This works well on the Imp side, and it's pretty much the one I use as is. I haven't found a great similar convention for the Rebel side. I'm on board with yours: it's concise, although not the most intuitive for the Rebs. Unfortunately, I don't have a better solution, so might as well use this.

Gonna try this and see if we can get it to catch on. Might need some minor tweaks.

This sounds like a great way to cut through the jargon for anyone else not in the loop.

Personally I'd favour the most obvious naming strategy that used the fewest letters possible, similar to what Caribbean Ninja posted.

Vic's need only be a "V" and Glads need only be a "G" as long as the Gozanti is a "Gz".

The more people have to rely on a key, the less immediately accessible it is.

Looking at Code every day, in and out, and now subjecting my "fun" to interpretation by "code" just... I hate it.

Its an okay concept, and I'm sure it'll work.

But I hate it.

It represents a "formalisation" or evolution away from casual fun, in some way, to me. And that rubs me the wrong way about this community.

Sorry.

And I'm sure I'm the minority, anyway.

I think its enough to put in just the Admiral name, Basic Ship information (in human readable format: I/G/Arq/Gz/Gz for example as any kind of coding should be readable by those who don't know it and Z for Gozanti is much less obvious) and maybe bid. I would leave everything else (including squadron information) out as it can't be supplied that easy and makes the description too cluttered (and one can always go in and read the full fleet composition to see it)

So, I've been using a 1-2 letter naming convention for the Imps, and I think we can make it work for the Rebs too. I also don't think you need to differentiate between the abbreviations between Imp and Reb if you're also including the admiral's name.

IMP

V - Victory
G - Gladiator
I - Imperial
R - Raider
Gz - Gozanti
In - Interdictor
A - Arquitens

Rebel

C - CR90
N - Nebulon B
A - Assault Frigate
H - MC80 Home One
M - MC30
G - GR-75
L - MC80 Liberty
P - Pelta


Because it's significant in some cases, it could also be worth appending the variant to the letter, eg:

V1G1G1G1 Screed
I2I1GzGz Motti
HcCbCbCb Rieekan
MtMtMtMtGmGmGm Mothma

I love this game. It's my favorite miniatures wargame. I buy all the stuff, build lists, and all that.

But you guys.... you need some sunshine and fresh air I think.

I don't quite see the purpose of this. I'm afraid it will make an inclusive group of people who can quickly give info to others of the group, but for new people, they will have no idea what is being said. This is already apparent when we abbreviate upgrades such as Gunnery Team - GT, Leading Shots - LS, Flight Controllers - FC, Flight Commander - FC, etc..

I think this is a good idea for the fleet builders, because you can save/exchange data quickly with them. But one thing I like to see in a fleet is the upgrades associated with each ship. And how do you differentiate squads? Is 5 X-Wings, 5 Y-Wings a bomber wing or anti-squad? Or 8 Tie/D? What about aces?

This short hand method really loses a lot of info, and you also lose the ship variants, which is also very important IMO.

Needs more refinement before I'd try to use it.

One of the primary purposes of a public forum is to share ideas and suggestions with all members of the community, whether they're a Worlds-winning expert who know every aspect of a game, or a brand-new player who have yet to get their first starship.

Jargon like this suggestion only obscures information for new players - who are precisely the ones who should be encouraged to join in. When squads are posted, it's a few tens of seconds slower for an expert to read a full list as opposed to a shorthand version. But a brand-new player will need minutes to decipher the code, if they can do so at all - and this will naturally put them off from reading a topic in the first place. In the worst case scenario they are so put off they don't bother reading, joining in a discussion, asking questions, or even start playing at all.

As a community for a fairly small game that's just starting to grow in popularity (and a brand new member of that community - total 6 games in the last month) - please, please be as open and clear as possible

What does 3bid mean? I understand your short hand for the rest, but I swear I don't have the slightest clue what is meant by this.

3 bid would be the number of points under 400 the list is. It is a "bid"or attempt to gain initiative, which allows you to decide to go 1st or 2nd.

On 1/30/2017 at 9:34 AM, Undeadguy said:

I don't quite see the purpose of this. I'm afraid it will make an inclusive group of people who can quickly give info to others of the group, but for new people, they will have no idea what is being said. This is already apparent when we abbreviate upgrades such as Gunnery Team - GT, Leading Shots - LS, Flight Controllers - FC, Flight Commander - FC, etc..

I think this is a good idea for the fleet builders, because you can save/exchange data quickly with them. But one thing I like to see in a fleet is the upgrades associated with each ship. And how do you differentiate squads? Is 5 X-Wings, 5 Y-Wings a bomber wing or anti-squad? Or 8 Tie/D? What about aces?

This short hand method really loses a lot of info, and you also lose the ship variants, which is also very important IMO.

Needs more refinement before I'd try to use it.

You're right. You would have to learn the Ship shorthand.

What about 2 letter Ship shorthand? I think its less easy to read:

ViRaGlGo
I think that's still harder than VRGZ.

Squadron# at the very least is utterly critical. You need to see how many squadrons to know what kind of lists this isn't.
And bid information is also critical as with the ships and admiral, tells you immediately the lists plan for 1st or 2nd.

I may not be the best player out there, but I can tell you I would stand strong in saying these are critical Armada reading skills. That's why we have whole threads about fleet building tips and compositions.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

You're right. You would have to learn the Ship shorthand.

What about 2 letter Ship shorthand? I think its less easy to read:

ViRaGlGo
I think that's still harder than VRGZ.

Squadron# at the very least is utterly critical. You need to see how many squadrons to know what kind of lists this isn't.
And bid information is also critical as with the ships and admiral, tells you immediately the lists plan for 1st or 2nd.

I may not be the best player out there, but I can tell you I would stand strong in saying these are critical Armada reading skills. That's why we have whole threads about fleet building tips and compositions.

If you can convince people to start doing it, more power to you! I just wanted to point out some flaws with your system so you can brainstorm some new ideas for it.

I agree people should understand some short hand so we don't have to type out some of the longer names, like Rapid Launch Bays or All Fighters Follow Me, but then again, some people enjoy doing that.

Let me respond by saying that I don't see the extra info that ship variance give us. There are only a few times that I wish to know which ship variant, such As torpedo shrimp or scouts shrimp however I can't think of any other times where it is very useful perhaps saying gladiator two

If we could hardcode this into the builders to output for names that would be great. However I don't know what to do with the information that you have responded to me with, although it is good to think about.

On 1/30/2017 at 11:38 AM, Ardaedhel said:

HcCbCbCb Rieekan

Awww... I got remembered.