Would that be move? if so how would the target take damage when impacted by the force push wave?

It makes sense that Move would be the go-to power to simulate this. However, there isn't really anything there to discuss the effect of what would happen when you aggressively pull/push a sentient. I could see requiring you to have the "Hurl" upgrade (as it allows you to have the control necessary to move objects with any sort of speed) and make it a ranged attack (or Disc. vs. Disc.) that moves an object one range band and causes Disorient 1 as base, and then other upgrades but... that's it's own Force Power at that point.

I don't have my book handy at the moment, but I believe Move notes that when you use the Hurl control upgrade, both the object you throw and the thing it hits suffer the same damage, so if you "Force Push" your target into an obstacle or the wall or the floor, you can damage them based on their silhouette.

4 minutes ago, Kaigen said:

I don't have my book handy at the moment, but I believe Move notes that when you use the Hurl control upgrade, both the object you throw and the thing it hits suffer the same damage, so if you "Force Push" your target into an obstacle or the wall or the floor, you can damage them based on their silhouette.

Just checked my copy of the CRB and can confirm this is true.

2 hours ago, LordEnforcer said:

Would that be move? if so how would the target take damage when impacted by the force push wave?

The power is very flexible. Game-mechanically, you can make the object your enemy, and target the floor. Then, narrate it as your enemy being slammed with the Force. The effect is the same, and as a GM I would give the attack the Knockdown quality.

thanks everyone I appreciate it

A Force push/slam would be Move + the Control upgrade to hurl objects. Since you'd be making a ranged combat check, you can spend any advantage or Triumphs generated to knock the target prone (assuming you've not pushed them over their wound threshold).

Though to affect most characters, you'd need to have purchased at least one Strength upgrade to affect Silhouette 1 targets. As for using a Force push against a minion group... that can get a bit thornier, as it seems every GM has their own interpretation of how it's supposed to work.

Personally, I've been treating it as attacking the minion group with an object as the same Silhouette of the target's type (generally Silhouette 1). So if you're wanting to do a Force slam on a group of Silhouette 1 battle droids, you'd need to make an Easy Discipline ranged combat check and would deal 10+uncancelled successes in damage. If you've got Magnitude upgrades, you can use those to score an extra hit, treating it as an autofire attack. So for Obi-Wan to mow down a trio of battle droids, he'd probably need 3 Force points (1 for the basic power, 1 for Strength upgrade, and 1 for Magnitude upgrade), hitting the droids for two hits at a base damage of 10 each, which is more than enough to demolish the group.

Granted, this makes it fairly simple to pull off (provided you can generate the necessary Force points), which may not sit well with some GMs. So I'd suggest sitting down the GM (or with the player if you're the GM) and discuss how precisely you want to handle it at your table.

When it's a minion group I think the best method is to increase the targets Silhouette by 1 but still call it a single target. It removes the challenging 2 Advantage per additional target rule. It also increases the damage they take to a decent amount

Force Push is definitely Move in my opinion. As others have said, a good use is to throw people into objects that will cause them damage.

I've also ruled in the past, that a Move can be used to knock opponents off their feet with little to no damage if the player chooses such.

The Bind Movement Upgrade is my Go to for Force Push and Force Pull , If you read the upgrade, it specifically states that it immediately moves the targert one rage band closer to or farther from the Force user. You are pushing the target back or puling him forward. That is, by definition, Force Push and Force Pull .

5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The Bind Movement Upgrade is my Go to for Force Push and Force Pull , If you read the upgrade, it specifically states that it immediately moves the targert one rage band closer to or farther from the Force user. You are pushing the target back or puling him forward. That is, by definition, Force Push and Force Pull .

There is a very long thread primarily about this discussion here on the FaD forum I disagree with this evaluation. The Bind power is not even accessible until you're at least at a Force Rating 2, and the "telekinetic movement" upgrade is just a small aspect of the power (far from central to its main theme). By comparison, Move is, thematically, all about telekinetically moving things.

I don't disagree that Bind can be used to "Force push" an enemy, but it is rather that the Bind power's utility crosses into the utility of the Move power. These applications of both powers are not mutually exclusive. However, thematically, Move works just fine as a mechanical way to accomplish your normal Force push . The devs told us this a couple years back, as well (and also on the Order 66 Podcast—it's worth a listen if you aren't listening already).

Check out the Bind power, and the "push/pull" uprade, in action here at the end of Anakin's fight vs. Barriss Offee (just after 3 minutes in):

(This made me sad. I always like Barriss)

17 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

There is a very long thread primarily about this discussion here on the FaD forum I disagree with this evaluation. The Bind power is not even accessible until you're at least at a Force Rating 2, and the "telekinetic movement" upgrade is just a small aspect of the power (far from central to its main theme). By comparison, Move is, thematically, all about telekinetically moving things.

I don't disagree that Bind can be used to "Force push" an enemy, but it is rather that the Bind power's utility crosses into the utility of the Move power. These applications of both powers are not mutually exclusive. However, thematically, Move works just fine as a mechanical way to accomplish your normal Force push . The devs told us this a couple years back, as well (and also on the Order 66 Podcast—it's worth a listen if you aren't listening already).

Check out the Bind power, and the "push/pull" uprade, in action here at the end of Anakin's fight vs. Barriss Offee (just after 3 minutes in):

(This made me sad. I always like Barriss)

Yes, I've read that, and that was before Bind and it's Movement upgrade even existed in any form other than a beta. Move's hurl upgrade only realy works a sa means of picking up a target and throwing him/her into other people as a projectile, which is not what the basic purpose of Force Push and Force Pull are for. They are primarily for pushing a target back away from the user, or pulling the target to the user, not for slamming them into someone else. As for the FR cost, that has nothing to do with what power more accurately emulated the result.

Whatwe see Anakin do is a combination of Bind's basic power along with its Movement upgrade. By RAW, you can use the movement upgrade by itself without immobilizing the target. This is how Kanaan pushes Ezra across chasms. And it is what Yoda does to Palpatine when he pushes him across the room. That isn't the Move power, that is the Bind movement Control upgrade

Oh for the love of Pete let's not let this argument drool over into another thread.

Sorry, I agree. I was trying to approach it from a perspective where either power could work and leave it at that. I shouldn't have gotten into it.

It does need saying though that both are possible. It's just that Move is focused on moving things and therefore is most people's default power for this. But LordEnforcer there is an enormous thread devoted to the above argument that you can read if you want both sides of the argument. I for one am not going to be doing that again.

The Move Force Power

Question asked by Josep Maria

There is any official response about "Force Push" power or it isn't created? It's a variant from Move?

Answered by Sam Stewart :

Force Push, Pull, and Move are all the same thing in our game. Anything you could do with Push, you should be able to do with Move.

Follow-up Question asked by Josep Maria

How do you handle the "Knockdown" effect that we can see sometimes on the movies? Its cinematic or I miss something?

Answered by Sam Stewart :

If it's an opposed check, it would be something you could use Advantage to activate. If it's just a Force power check, then it's probably cinematic (if you're targeting minions or no-name rivals, whether or not they're knocked down probably doesn't make a huge difference either way).

From here

Hope it helped

19 minutes ago, Josep Maria said:

The Move Force Power

Question asked by Josep Maria

There is any official response about "Force Push" power or it isn't created? It's a variant from Move?

Answered by Sam Stewart :

Force Push, Pull, and Move are all the same thing in our game. Anything you could do with Push, you should be able to do with Move.

Follow-up Question asked by Josep Maria

How do you handle the "Knockdown" effect that we can see sometimes on the movies? Its cinematic or I miss something?

Answered by Sam Stewart :

If it's an opposed check, it would be something you could use Advantage to activate. If it's just a Force power check, then it's probably cinematic (if you're targeting minions or no-name rivals, whether or not they're knocked down probably doesn't make a huge difference either way).

From here

Hope it helped

There is also this more recent question and response:

Quote

Tramp Graphics Asked on On Feb 9, 2017, at 2:42 PM :

Rules Question:
I have a question regarding Force Push and Force Pull. If you look at the canon, including the movies and cartoons, we see a number of instances where Force Psuh and Force Pull are not used as a "ranged attack" to hurl individuals at other individuals. Rather, they are often used to pull targets to the user or push them away at relatively high speed, but not necessarily injuring the. For example: Yoda Force Pushes Palpatine across a room causing him to tumble head over heels across his desk and land in a jumbe on the floor, but otherwise unharmed, Kanan using Force Push to propel his allies across a chasm. Kylo Ren to yank a First Order Officer to him from across the room, and later to shove Rey back several meters resulting in her colliding with a tree, and staggered, but otherwise unhurt. Now, based upon the RAW, these all fit within the Bind movement upgrade the full text of which states on page 286 of F&D: "Spend Force Point to immediately move the target one range band toward or away from the user." Now, to me that reads Force Push and Force Pull. yet many other claim that Move is the only power to use for Force Push and Force Pull no matter what; even if you're not trying to use it as a ranged attack in order to inflict wound damage (ala the Move Hurl upgrade), and you, yourself stated that the base Move power only moves things (and people) at roughly walking speed. So my question is, CAN you use Bind's movement upgrade for these non wound inflicting uses of Force Push and Force Pull, as the upgrade seems to be intended, or are you required to always use Move no matter your intent? And if it is the latter then what is the point of the Bind Movement upgrade if it is not to simulate Force Push and Force Pull? Because, as written, that upgrade describes those abilities to a tee.

Sam Stewart responded:

Hello Michael,

You can use Bind to move people closer to you and further away from you, as per its upgrade. You can also use Move to move people closer to you and further away from you, as per the upgrade.

Honestly, I’m not sure what your question is. Does it really matter what Force power you use to shove someone away from you? The end result is the same.

Sam Stewart

RPG Manager

Fantasy Flight Games

with a followup being:

Quote

On Feb 9, 2017, at 3:16 PM,Tramp Graphics wrote:

Well, the issue is that almost everyone is saying the Force Push and Force Pull are always done through Move no matter what because that was the default for EotE before F&D came out with Bind and its Movement upgrade. So there has been a big (32 page long) argument over whether or not Bind's movement upgrade is intended to be the non ranged attack version of Force Push and Force Pull , as we see in canon, and can be used as such, or if Move is the only power to be used as those specific powers.

A second question, while I'm at it. You recently mentioned that to activate the movement upgrade, you do have to pay the base FP cost for Bind before using its Movement upgrade (which I always assumed was true anyway). The question is, after spending that base FP cost, do you always have to actually immobilize the target or does spending the additional FP for the movement upgrade change how the power works so that you're moving the target instead of immobilizing him?

Sam Stewart wrote:

No, you would have to immobilize your target if you spent the points to immobilize your target.

So, technically, both Move and Bind can be used for Force Push .

24 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

There is also this more recent question and response:

with a followup being:

So, technically, both Move and Bind can be used for Force Push .

This is a somewhat refreshing change in opinion. Well done sir. I applaud you.

3 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

So, technically, both Move and Bind can be used for Force Push .

Is there an echo in this thread?

Don't feed the Tramp Graphics ppl...

You can also Push using the Move power without causing damage, OP (no Hurl upgrade required).

Just have them make a Discipline check, using Advantages to knock-down.

59 minutes ago, emsquared said:

You can also Push using the Move power without causing damage, OP (no Hurl upgrade required).

Just have them make a Discipline check, using Advantages to knock-down.

Sam Stewart has also advocated making a "knockdown" effect narrative when there's no mechanical way to do it. Just activate the per, move your enemy, narrate then getting knocked down, and just don't test then as mechanically knocked down for attacks. You could narrate this as your event keeping their wits about them, or being very agile even when prone, or leaping back to their feet quickly...If the players raise any questions about such things, that is.

It's a difference of a single boost/setback die, so I wouldn't worry about it breaking the game.