If a ship goes off the board with a red move, does it gain the stress before dying? Mindlink lists and mistakes want to know...

I genuinely don't know the answer to this one.

According to the "Fleeing the Battlefield" section on p11 of the Rules Reference, you don't destroy an off-the-mat ship until after it executes its maneuver. So "Check Pilot Stress" will have happened, and the stress from the red maneuver will have been assigned.

ETA: For anybody coming across this thread in the mysterious future, this is contradicted by the FAQ. Keep scrolling past all the wrongness.

I don't think that it does get the stress as the ship is destroyed before finishing maneuver execution.

18 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

According to the "Fleeing the Battlefield" section on p11 of the Rules Reference, you don't destroy an off-the-mat ship until after it executes its maneuver. So "Check Pilot Stress" will have happened, and the stress from the red maneuver will have been assigned.

Thought so. Wasn't sure.

18 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I don't think that it does get the stress as the ship is destroyed before finishing maneuver execution.

You must determine if the final position of a manoeuvre has left the ship outside the play area, thus the manoeuvre must be completed. The ship is destroyed as soon as it's outside and cannot perform an action or manoeuvre to get back inside. So I would say you get any stress from the red, spread that with the Mindlink, then boom!

Execute Maneuver:

a. Move Ship

b. Check Pilot Stress

c. Clean Up

"If a ship is placed outside the play area as a result of executing a maneuver, the ship flees the battlefield and is immediately destroyed. It cannot perform an action or execute a maneuver to move back within the play area."

'Fleeing the battlefield' is not check after executing a manoeuvre, which would mean completing all substeps. It is checking for something happening as a result of performing a manoeuvre, which could be any part thereof. So as soon as you do move the ship in substep a and any part of the base is outside the play area, then boom : No ship, no stress.

This is one of those hair splitters. If you do a 5K and your only 3 away from the edge. it's obvious you've fled. If you're doing a hard 3 near the edge you have to use the final position of the ship to see if you're on or off the mat. Would this be considered "completing" the maneuver" if your base isn't completely on the mat? I would say no.

5 hours ago, Stoneface said:

This is one of those hair splitters. If you do a 5K and your only 3 away from the edge. it's obvious you've fled. If you're doing a hard 3 near the edge you have to use the final position of the ship to see if you're on or off the mat. Would this be considered "completing" the maneuver" if your base isn't completely on the mat? I would say no.

To complete a manoeuvre you must complete all three steps of executing a manoeuvre: Move Ship, Check Pilot Stress, Clean Up. If you perform that hard 3 and your base goes slightly out of play, you're dead. I see no hairs to split there.

9 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

To complete a manoeuvre you must complete all three steps of executing a manoeuvre: Move Ship, Check Pilot Stress, Clean Up. If you perform that hard 3 and your base goes slightly out of play, you're dead. I see no hairs to split there.

True

Just for anyone that might get confused reading this, this is in the FAQ:

If a ship with Attani Mindlink flees the battlefield while
performing a red maneuver, the ship is immediately
destroyed and does not receive a stress token.

I really should have checked but I was mid-game.

And... that doesn't actually seem consistent.

Sigh.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I really should have checked but I was mid-game.

And... that doesn't actually seem consistent.

Sigh.

I missed that one in the FAQ as well. And you're right, it doesn't seem consistent. But there you go.

Doesn't seem consistent with what?

The rules for flying off the board as discussed above.

But they're completely consistent. There's literally no difference between what was expressed above and the Attani Mindlink ruling.

On 27/01/2017 at 7:46 PM, thespaceinvader said:

Thought so. Wasn't sure.

This post.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

This post.

Wasn't trying to be obstreperous; I just wasn't sure.

That reference is incorrect. It says that the 'Fleeing the Battlefield' section of the RR on P11 says that a ship is destroyed after it executes a manoeuvre and is outside the play area. That is not actually what the RR says. It actually says it is destroyed if it is outside the play area as a result of executing a manoeuvre. As a result of is immediate at any point during the process. The rule and the FAQ entry are completely consistent.

Case closed?

16 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

As a result of is immediate at any point during the process.

Well, I don't agree that that's what those words mean. (You wouldn't say "Making an omelette for breakfast resulted in a bowl of raw beaten eggs" unless you stopped pretty early in the process.) But that's not relevant here, because the Rules Reference doesn't use the word "result". It does say "When a ship executes a maneuver or performs an action that changes its position, if any part of its base is outside the play area....". Now we know you don't flee the battlefield if a maneuver would cause you to leave the play area but you're moved back to safety as a result of an overlap, so obviously something has to be completed before you check. Based on "executes a maneuver" in the rules text, I thought the thing you completed was, you know, the execution of the maneuver. Apparently not so.

The FAQ ruling is consistent with the "flee the battlefield" check happening after the "Move Ship" substep of Execute a Maneuver, so I guess that's what we're going to pretend it says.

What about if a ship with attani was destroyed and they got the thrust control fire critical hit? Would all other midnlinked pilots be stressed? Sorry if this is obvious, im just curious

Yes, they would. Crits from attacks are dealt and resolved WELL before the ship is removed from play.

(Exception, based on the above discussion: if that crit somehow managed to come from an asteroid during the process of driving off the board - in that instance, I'm pretty sure the ship is removed before the rock roll, let alone resolving the crit. Don't'cha love edge cases?)

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yes, they would. Crits from attacks are dealt and resolved WELL before the ship is removed from play.

(Exception, based on the above discussion: if that crit somehow managed to come from an asteroid during the process of driving off the board - in that instance, I'm pretty sure the ship is removed before the rock roll, let alone resolving the crit. Don't'cha love edge cases?)

Alright, thank you

1 hour ago, digitalbusker said:

(You wouldn't say "Making an omelette for breakfast resulted in a bowl of raw beaten eggs" unless you stopped pretty early in the process.)

No, we wouldn't say that, but that fact is not relevant because it is a false comparison.

A correct comparison might be 'if making an omelette results in spillage, immediately clean the spillage up'.

We are talking about results from execut ing a manoeuvre, not the execution (past tense) of one.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Don't'cha love edge cases?

I see what you did there.

2 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

The FAQ ruling is consistent with the "flee the battlefield" check happening after the "Move Ship" substep of Execute a Maneuver, so I guess that's what we're going to pretend it says.

I think it's fairly clear that IS what the reference says. If you move a ship such that it hangs off the edge of the board, what is the earliest point at which you can see that the ship should destroyed? Clearly it's immediately after moving the ship. If the language was "after executing a maneuver" that'd be different but it says "when executing a maneuver" so you check as soon as you possibly can for if the ship has fled.

Additionally the reference has a bullet point here: "When a ship flees the battlefield, it is
immediately destroyed and removed from the
play area. It cannot resolve any of its Ship or
Upgrade card abilities." which doubly backs up that Mindlink won't happen.