Hey all!

I recently played a Corellian Conflict style game where my opponent ran 5 MC30's with Ackbar and just flew sideways the entire game. I had dust fields in the game so I was able to mitigate his shooting for 3 turns, but even in the other 3 turns, his 5 MC30's just chucked buckets of dice at me and I watched my ISD-C2 go up in smoke. This lone ship lost almost lost me the game if not for the free mission points.

I unfortunately did not have the squadrons to chase down his MC30's either, as I had taken a blob that was more focused on clearing and destroying enemy squadron blobs rather than outright bombing.

My question is this: Does anyone have a reliable method of dealing with 5 MC30's that chuck out 5 red dice every turn and gunnery teams? No matter how clever my positioning was with the Dust Fields, I just couldn't stop the massive pool of dice coming at me. What can I do?

The most reliable way to deal with Ackbar in general is get in front of him. If you are 2nd player, you can also afford to be patient. If neither side gets any points, 2nd player always wins. MC30s are also extremely one-shotable, so sounds like XI7s are going to be your best friend, probably with some leading shots on that ISD.

Yes ISD-II with XI7s, Gunnery Teams, LS and maybe even Captain Needa. Then take a Rhymer ball with a BCC flotilla staying out of trouble. Throw in an Arquitens or Demolisher to complete the fleet.

Getting in front of MC30s is a lot harder than MC80 + 2xAFII Ackbar fleets as they are quite nippy and if Admonition is at the front it can be hard to take down in one turn as it sheds all its red defence tokens after using them. Their small ship bases sizes and ability to reach speed 4 can stop the conga line getting easily blocked.

Using High Capacity Ion Turrets on the ISD can be fun, giving you a flank shot of 5 or 6 dice with XI7s diminishing the redirects. MC30s don't like this and with gunnery teams you can finish off 2 MC30s at a time even if they slip around your big front arc.

Since you're in the CC, get a Spynet token so you can redeploy right in front of him.

1 hour ago, Caldias said:

The most reliable way to deal with Ackbar in general is get in front of him. If you are 2nd player, you can also afford to be patient. If neither side gets any points, 2nd player always wins. MC30s are also extremely one-shotable, so sounds like XI7s are going to be your best friend, probably with some leading shots on that ISD.

The problem was he sat at Speed 4 the entire game and just out activated me with 5 activations to 4. And it was the first battle so I didnt have X17's or Leading Shots.

1 hour ago, Mad Cat said:

Yes ISD-II with XI7s, Gunnery Teams, LS and maybe even Captain Needa. Then take a Rhymer ball with a BCC flotilla staying out of trouble. Throw in an Arquitens or Demolisher to complete the fleet.

Getting in front of MC30s is a lot harder than MC80 + 2xAFII Ackbar fleets as they are quite nippy and if Admonition is at the front it can be hard to take down in one turn as it sheds all its red defence tokens after using them. Their small ship bases sizes and ability to reach speed 4 can stop the conga line getting easily blocked.

Using High Capacity Ion Turrets on the ISD can be fun, giving you a flank shot of 5 or 6 dice with XI7s diminishing the redirects. MC30s don't like this and with gunnery teams you can finish off 2 MC30s at a time even if they slip around your big front arc.

Unfortunately, Demolisher Title was taken by someone else on the empire side, and I did not have the bombers to pull off a Rhymer Ball.

I just couldn't keep him in my front arc at all.

---------------------

Thanks for all the advice though, in my non-Corellian Conflict games I will keep all this in mind, because this guy plays this cancer as his only list, usually its just 4 with TRC's, Ackbar and Gunnery Teams

57 minutes ago, pasewi said:

Since you're in the CC, get a Spynet token so you can redeploy right in front of him.

So tasty... oh goodness. I would love to pop 2 of those things on Turn 1.

9 minutes ago, n00bzilla99 said:

The problem was he sat at Speed 4 the entire game and just out activated me with 5 activations to 4. And it was the first battle so I didnt have X17's or Leading Shots.

Unfortunately, Demolisher Title was taken by someone else on the empire side, and I did not have the bombers to pull off a Rhymer Ball.

I just couldn't keep him in my front arc at all.

---------------------

Thanks for all the advice though, in my non-Corellian Conflict games I will keep all this in mind, because this guy plays this cancer as his only list, usually its just 4 with TRC's, Ackbar and Gunnery Teams

I had a buddy who run a very similar list that sported all of the above plus Intel Officer... it was mean...

It does fall to a big bad rhymer ball though, as with all those upgrades there is little to no squadron cover.

Yeah, I personally think running mass TRC in the campaign is a real **** move. Its just disproportionatly stronger than any other one upgrade in the game. One or two is cool. 4+ is a little jerky imo.

Speed 4 MC30s are pretty predictable. If you defend against him, try running making sure you always end up with two in your front. If you attack, ram that ISD down his gunline.

If you bring trcs. You are abusing your evades and dont have admo or foresight.

Thats fine with me. Your defence will be weak

Flip the table?

1 hour ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I had a buddy who run a very similar list that sported all of the above plus Intel Officer... it was mean...

It does fall to a big bad rhymer ball though, as with all those upgrades there is little to no squadron cover.

The problem I have is then that forces me to take a Rhymer ball, which necessarily isn't that bad, but if I were doing an all-purpose list, I might not have taken a Rhymer Ball, which then leaves me high and dry when he pulls out this cancer.

51 minutes ago, Caldias said:

Yeah, I personally think running mass TRC in the campaign is a real **** move. Its just disproportionatly stronger than any other one upgrade in the game. One or two is cool. 4+ is a little jerky imo.

Best part is that it wasn't even TRC's, just 5 red dice with Ackbar with Gunnery Teams, since it was Corellian Conflict, which is enough to just pour it on.

However, in general his list does the TRC's and Ackbar and 4 of them. I told him how cancer his list was and his only reply was "meh, then just blow up the ships." As if it was just that easy...

57 minutes ago, Caldias said:

Yeah, I personally think running mass TRC in the campaign is a real **** move. Its just disproportionatly stronger than any other one upgrade in the game. One or two is cool. 4+ is a little jerky imo.

Speed 4 MC30s are pretty predictable. If you defend against him, try running making sure you always end up with two in your front. If you attack, ram that ISD down his gunline.

Guess I need to figure out predicting speed 4 better then.

44 minutes ago, n00bzilla99 said:

The problem I have is then that forces me to take a Rhymer ball, which necessarily isn't that bad, but if I were doing an all-purpose list, I might not have taken a Rhymer Ball, which then leaves me high and dry when he pulls out this cancer.

Best part is that it wasn't even TRC's, just 5 red dice with Ackbar with Gunnery Teams, since it was Corellian Conflict, which is enough to just pour it on.

However, in general his list does the TRC's and Ackbar and 4 of them. I told him how cancer his list was and his only reply was "meh, then just blow up the ships." As if it was just that easy...

"Cancer"? As in not fun to play against? Hard to play against? Cheesy?

Everything has a weakness. 4 scouts with TRC's and Ackbar is 342 points. If he has nothing else on them, he can afford less than 60 points of squadrons. Take Jan/Dengar + 6-7 rogues and teach Ackbar the meaning of pain while your own ships sit back out of range entirely until the flagship pops.

You get people to stop running lists by finding a solution, not by calling it cancer and asking them to stop playing it. Why shouldn't they use what works?

Ackbar conga lines were a big deal back in wave 2 when they were primarily a successful response to Imperial lists that pointed their ships directly at an enemy and went straight at him (Gladiator spam was a big deal back in wave one and ISD/VSD heavy lists were a thing briefly at the start of wave 2). They can still be quite successful these days against similar approaches. Their strategy relies on facing fleets that aren't bringing a serious squadron threat (as Ackbar's preferred ships and side-arc limitations make his fleet very weak against bombers) and/or facing fleets that aren't bringing maneuverable ships that can get to the front of the conga line (which succeeds at both causing a conga line logjam as they can't move well past the ship in front of them and avoiding the menacing side arcs).

That type of fleet is definitely beatable but it requires changes in fleet composition and/or fleet usage to accomplish. If you find you have a slower fleet that doesn't have the tools to handle the Ackbar conga line, what you need to do immediately is not play into his game. Do not blunder into the kill zone (with several overlapping fields of fire) because you feel like you're expected to. Make him work for any damage and avoid the kill zone as best as you can. Navigate a lot. What you need to do after the game is make list changes that give you some tools to handle that kind of fleet more easily in the future.

2 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Ackbar conga lines were a big deal back in wave 2 when they were primarily a successful response to Imperial lists that pointed their ships directly at an enemy and went straight at him (Gladiator spam was a big deal back in wave one and ISD/VSD heavy lists were a thing briefly at the start of wave 2). They can still be quite successful these days against similar approaches. Their strategy relies on facing fleets that aren't bringing a serious squadron threat (as Ackbar's preferred ships and side-arc limitations make his fleet very weak against bombers) and/or facing fleets that aren't bringing maneuverable ships that can get to the front of the conga line (which succeeds at both causing a conga line logjam as they can't move well past the ship in front of them and avoiding the menacing side arcs).

That type of fleet is definitely beatable but it requires changes in fleet composition and/or fleet usage to accomplish. If you find you have a slower fleet that doesn't have the tools to handle the Ackbar conga line, what you need to do immediately is not play into his game. Do not blunder into the kill zone (with several overlapping fields of fire) because you feel like you're expected to. Make him work for any damage and avoid the kill zone as best as you can. Navigate a lot. What you need to do after the game is make list changes that give you some tools to handle that kind of fleet more easily in the future.

This is all excellent advice.

Ackbar has been doing well in the current Regionals season. I think it is due to him being a nice response to fleets that like to slowly roll across the table behind their cloud of squadrons. The Ackbar fleets that are doing well seem to be bringing a stronger squadron screen for defense and then blast away at the carriers.

1 hour ago, n00bzilla99 said:

The problem I have is then that forces me to take a Rhymer ball, which necessarily isn't that bad, but if I were doing an all-purpose list, I might not have taken a Rhymer Ball, which then leaves me high and dry when he pulls out this cancer.

Best part is that it wasn't even TRC's, just 5 red dice with Ackbar with Gunnery Teams, since it was Corellian Conflict, which is enough to just pour it on.

However, in general his list does the TRC's and Ackbar and 4 of them. I told him how cancer his list was and his only reply was "meh, then just blow up the ships." As if it was just that easy...

Oh okay, I take it back if he wasn't using those in the first round, my hat is off to your opponent and I came off harsher than I meant to. Round 1 of the campaign, TRC is pretty much the king offensive upgrade. Not unbeatable or anything, just very advantageous in the world of only one upgrade per ship.

The advice given here is sound. I think your ISD upgraded would put a hurting on the 30s, and Ard is of course correct in that squadrons would eat that list alive.

4 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

"Cancer"? As in not fun to play against? Hard to play against? Cheesy?

Everything has a weakness. 4 scouts with TRC's and Ackbar is 342 points. If he has nothing else on them, he can afford less than 60 points of squadrons. Take Jan/Dengar + 6-7 rogues and teach Ackbar the meaning of pain while your own ships sit back out of range entirely until the flagship pops.

You get people to stop running lists by finding a solution, not by calling it cancer and asking them to stop playing it. Why shouldn't they use what works?

I didn't tell him it was cancer... It's just how I feel about the list.

Thanks to Snipa Fist for that great post. I think I'll go about planning out how to go about that all

After playing agaisnt MC30s for a few months, I can tell you that you want a Fireball to kill them. It is the easiest and quickest way to do it. Rhymer and 2 Firesprays and BCC. Get some Decimators in there too. Attack from medium to see if you can get him to spend his Evades and break em so you don't have to worry about them next round. Getting the squads will also improve your deployment, which I think can make or break a game before the first round when you go against MC30s.

I typically play against the close variant, and I've seen Vic I and Glads really tear MC30s apart with APTs. 4 hull just do not stand up very well against 8 hull. If you are able, get a close range ship that can get in front of an MC30 and pin it there. Raiders with APT can work for this. I'm a bit more reckless than other people, so I say bait your opponent with the ISD and leave it in the side arc. Don't go crazy and get in all 4 ships arc, but 1 or 2 should be fine if you do it at the end of the round. No need to give away free shots.

My biggest advice: Focus fire 1 ship at a time. You cannot reliably kill 2 properly upgraded MC30s (Admonition, Lando, AP, Foresight, etc.) at the same time unless you have Gunnery Team. And even then, you may be hard pressed because you would want to be at medium range. Always, always, always kill an MC30 if you get the chance. Do not let it activate, even if it means you have to ram or over-extend your squads. MC30s can have massive spikes in damage and surprise you, and I've learned that the hard way.

If you defend against them, you can always run away. 2nd player wins be default. If you defend a base, Ion Cannon or Fighters would be good for you for the extra damage output.

Post your list here and you will get better advice on what to add and what to sacrifice in order to beat this MC30 list.

Here was the list I ran.

CC: Empire List
Author: n00bzilla99

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 59 total ship cost

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
= 59 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 163 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Vector ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)
1 TIE Defender Squadron ( 16 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
2 TIE Phantom Squadrons ( 28 points)

5 hours ago, n00bzilla99 said:

I told him how cancer his list was

1 hour ago, n00bzilla99 said:

I didn't tell him it was cancer

Sooo.....?

Funny story: my own 4xMC30 list just got smoked last night by Caribbean Ninja flying an ISD2 with Leading Shots and XI7. The key is forcing engagement on your terms, not his. He can only run for so long, and an MC30 with no defensive upgrades has a good chance of popping in one shot at medium range to an XI7 ISD2 with rerolls.

You have to force the engagement to happen at medium-close range, you can't hang out at long, and he has to be forced to pay the price every time he activates first. Threaten two shrimp at once with your front arc. Threaten one with the ISD and one with the kittens.

Soften then up with squadrons, even if not bombers, before you open up on them: forcing even one extra damage onto the arc you're about to shoot into may not seem like much to you, but trust me, he's sweating. Those shrimp are brittle as hell: hard to get damage onto them, but just a little bit of pressure and they crumple.

His defense tokens are his life, so focus your fire on one of them to force him to burn tokens as fast as you can.

Point your nose at where he is going, not where he is, and then step on the gas to be there to greet him. If he's hanging out at speed 4, you out-maneuver him--leverage that to push him into the corner. He can only kite for so long when you're chasing him at speed 3.

Control your speed carefully. You don't need to be worrying about CF or squadron commands with the ISD, nav is your life and your strongest threat. Don't let him draw you into overlapping fields of fire, and force him to eat your arcs.

Good luck!

23 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Sooo.....?

Not literally told him. I just told him that I thought his list was very frustrating to play against. Those words exactly.

And unfortunately, it was CC so I couldn't have leading shots and X17's together like I would usually run.

15 hours ago, n00bzilla99 said:

Not literally told him. I just told him that I thought his list was very frustrating to play against. Those words exactly.

And unfortunately, it was CC so I couldn't have leading shots and X17's together like I would usually run.

CC's first round is a unique beast. But now you and your teammates know whats going on across the table and can adjust your builds/tactics accordingly.