Hello all.

Looking for some opinions on the following scenario.

In last night's match both Nora Wexley and Lieutenant Blout died through Soontir ability damage as they were forced to attack an escort ship.

Does this give Soontir veteran status?

He didn't destroy them from a dice roll attack but they wouldn't have died if his ability hadn't been present.

Soontir Fel killed them, they died to his ability.

Without Soontir Fel they would not have died, until something else killed them.

Just as if Boba Fett killed a 1 health ace as he activated with his special ability.

58 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

Soontir Fel killed them, they died to his ability.

Without Soontir Fel they would not have died, until something else killed them.

Just as if Boba Fett killed a 1 health ace as he activated with his special ability.

Incorrect.

A squadron must destroy a ship or squadron with AN ATTACK to gain veteran status.

Yep, Sir Green is quite correct.: much like my heroic 'Divine Wind' CR90 ploughing into an ISD-II to kill the thing, it wasn't its guns that killed it. And since it was an ability or circumstance, it doesn't count and won't gain vet status* (that part is actually in bold print. It must be an attack and the enemy must die as a result of the damage resolved in that attack)

That CR90 might be 'Lightmaker Jr.' but its plucky relative Psyelk II is a vet for picking on a Gozanti. Figures, eh?

What if you intentionally chose to change your speed to a setting that would causing a ramming action? Would you class that a direct and intentional attack?

10 minutes ago, Dirklightning said:

What if you intentionally chose to change your speed to a setting that would causing a ramming action? Would you class that a direct and intentional attack?

Not for game purposes, no. For game purposes, that is simply "overlapping".

4 minutes ago, RobertK said:

Not for game purposes, no. For game purposes, that is simply "overlapping".

Exactly, the CC Rulebook is very specific that to gain veterancy the ship/squadron must be destroyed by an attack from your ship/squadron (which is: you declare the target and roll the dice and by result of that the defending ship/squadron gets destroyed)

Time to take off some veteran status markers.

The rules for CC spell it out, seemingly not because it wouldn't be clear how to gain veterancy the old fashioned way, but in order to exclude things like Boba Fett, Mauler Mithel, Soontir Fell, ramming, Planetary Ion Cannon, Minefields, a persistent face up damage card that you dealt it two turns ago, or using Slicer Tools to remove a Nav command so something crashes and dies.

You gain veterancy if you perform an attack and the target is destroyed at the end of that attack.

So, it includes damage boosts that are part of the attack, like CF or Dutch Vander, and also includes atypical attacks like Counter or Snipe. But it excludes the non attack ways to kill something.

On a related note, Soontir Fel would earn veteran status if he destroyed an enemy using "Counter". This is because "Counter" specifically states that it is an attack.

21 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Incorrect.

A squadron must destroy a ship or squadron with AN ATTACK to gain veteran status.

bleh, that seems kinda lame. And something that can be easily gamed to take the chance of Veterancy away from your opponent.

9 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

bleh, that seems kinda lame. And something that can be easily gamed to take the chance of Veterancy away from your opponent.

Maybe.

But it`s what the rules say.

Im sure there will be plenty of house rules soon (if not already).

Yeah, but last game i got rhymer and mauler to take shots at enenies with 1hp before mauler wiped the rest by moving.

You can game it both ways

20 hours ago, Nostromo V said:

The rules for CC spell it out, seemingly not because it wouldn't be clear how to gain veterancy the old fashioned way, but in order to exclude things like Boba Fett, Mauler Mithel, Soontir Fell, ramming, Planetary Ion Cannon, Minefields, a persistent face up damage card that you dealt it two turns ago, or using Slicer Tools to remove a Nav command so something crashes and dies.

You gain veterancy if you perform an attack and the target is destroyed at the end of that attack.

So, it includes damage boosts that are part of the attack, like CF or Dutch Vander, and also includes atypical attacks like Counter or Snipe. But it excludes the non attack ways to kill something.

I am absolutely enthralled that my minelayers and Planetary Ion Cannon teams could gain veteran status. This deserves a houserule.

9 hours ago, TheEasternKing said:

bleh, that seems kinda lame. And something that can be easily gamed to take the chance of Veterancy away from your opponent.

That seems kinda fair rules, since the rebels has noone like shoontir, mithel or boba to cause damage in a complety ***** and unfair way.

1 hour ago, xerpo said:

That seems kinda fair rules, since the rebels has noone like shoontir, mithel or boba to cause damage in a complety ***** and unfair way.

Apart from Ten Numb...

34 minutes ago, Kendraam said:

Apart from Ten Numb...

Still not the same.

He has to roll dice, and get a specific result, to do so. There is a chance it never happens, and there are times you want to reroll that to attempt to get damage on your primary target

The others are literally automatic.

By that logic, Ruthless Strategist kills shouldn't count. RS doesn't need to roll any damage against the target to kill it, just be able to make the attack.

And that would be true prickly.... you know, I'm not gonna finish the rest of that nickname : P Ruthless Strategist kills shouldn't count, and they don't: ships need to kill ships to gain veteran status, squadrons need to kill squadrons or ships. They must perform an attack and the defender must be destroyed after resolving damage (meaning critical effects that were inflicted but caused a delayed effect that resulted in a ship's destruction --ruptured engines etc-- don't count either).

The odd and interesting thing of note is that even generic squadrons can gain veteran status, but they can't use it to do anything as they aren't unique squadrons.

37 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

By that logic, Ruthless Strategist kills shouldn't count. RS doesn't need to roll any damage against the target to kill it, just be able to make the attack.

Ships don't become veterans by killing squads, so irrelevant.

And what about Biggs? Would he prevent from gaining veteran status?

I mean: I shoot to an escort squadron and I roll enough to kill it but Biggs "move" the damage to another squadron with escort and this new one die as the result. As long as Biggs reduce the damage and then the other suffer "new" damage did I kill it or not?

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

And what about Biggs? Would he prevent from gaining veteran status?

I mean: I shoot to an escort squadron and I roll enough to kill it but Biggs "move" the damage to another squadron with escort and this new one die as the result. As long as Biggs reduce the damage and then the other suffer "new" damage did I kill it or not?

Well, the attacking squad wouldn't gain Veteran status - could Biggs get it by killing his own wingmen? Again, no, I guess not.

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

And what about Biggs? Would he prevent from gaining veteran status?

I mean: I shoot to an escort squadron and I roll enough to kill it but Biggs "move" the damage to another squadron with escort and this new one die as the result. As long as Biggs reduce the damage and then the other suffer "new" damage did I kill it or not?

It must be an attack - and the DEFENDER must be destroyed.

Thank you!

So I have no way to control Soontir, Mithel and Boba skills and I could find Biggs who could avoid me to gain veteran status. Good to know before I start the CC.

Or are the imperial aces skills optional? I think not cause the lack of "may" but I am not sure.

Of course I prefer to deal the damage everytime I could but it would be interesting if I could choose in some situations.

Upgrades are always optional.