I've been toying with the idea of a fleet with no (or almost no) squadrons for the first round of CC. It's kind of crazy, but was thinking about going with

1 VSD-II (Warlord)

2 VSD-I (one with the Dominator Title)

1 Combat Retrofit Interdictor w/Projection Experts to serve as tank and healer.

Moff JerJerrod to be able to swing the gunline around fast when needed. This leaves 17-27 points for squads (depending on a possible VSD-I upgrade).

I was inspired by a post about someone running 4 VSD-Is in the Vassal cup.

Thoughts?

I really dare anyone to try and tell me that your first VSD will last longer than 1 turn of FCT moved Yavaris bombing with BCC. Go ahead.
(3x2 + 3) bombers x 2 low-bound-avg dmg = 18 avg dmg. Overkill.

That's 6 bombers only, out of 8 or 10 squadrons. AND a LOWER avg dmg that what is really the case.

Overkilled in one turn.

if we assume 1 Toryn 1 BCC, where most lists now use two. One reroll on each only:

blue die 6/8 + 2/8 x 6/8 = 0.9375

black die 4/8 + 2/8x2dmg + 2/8 * (4/8 + 2/8x2dmg) = 10/8 = 1.25

Total = 2.1875, assuming one reroll on each, but often, you'll use two rerolls on black dice for even higher average.

Well they cannot have a FCT Yavaris in the first turn of CC..............

Where is Toryn going to be? She can't be on the same ship that has the BCC, either. Also, don't the VSDs have two redirects and a brace? The 4 VSD-I gunline worked well in the Vassal Cup, I thought. (emfrank ran it?)

I was hoping you were going to be placing bets on every game. Instead of money, you bet points. If you lose a bet, you have to give away upgrades and ships/squads to the winner.

"Here are your 10 new Engineering Captains. Enjoy!"

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

Well they cannot have a FCT Yavaris in the first turn of CC..............

This.

That is the entire point. And Sooner, it was Emfrank playing with the 4 VSD line and he didn't do it in campaign, he did it in the vassal tourney! You should pm him and see what his thoughts were.

My thoughts (have played the list) is it very risky, but also has a high reward as you can spend the majority of your next 100 pts on anti-squadron and activations.

As long as you don't get tabled in your first match you should be ok.

I love it Turn 1, but you better have a long range plan.

Define ran well?

Maturin vs Emfrank72: 10-1 (MoV 389)
SkyCake vs Emfrank: 9-2 (MoV 223)
Emfrank vs Brobafett: 6-5 (MoV 29)

That said, it could work well round 1 of CC. Worst case, get to turn 4 and hyperspace out of there. You will need someone to go and win the show of force so you can get squads fast!

Support refit of Interdictor, you are going to want a second expermental upgrade at some point.

11 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Define ran well?

Maturin vs Emfrank72: 10-1 (MoV 389)
SkyCake vs Emfrank: 9-2 (MoV 223)
Emfrank vs Brobafett: 6-5 (MoV 29)

That said, it could work well round 1 of CC. Worst case, get to turn 4 and hyperspace out of there. You will need someone to go and win the show of force so you can get squads fast!

Support refit of Interdictor, you are going to want a second expermental upgrade at some point.

I was going for the extra anti-squad black die there. Is it worth losing that to get the second upgrade?

Also, what is the exact rule about Interdictors and your opponent hyperspacing out?

I can't see this ending well. It is way easier to build your squadrons up on turn one, and you can get more than 100 points of squadrons for the entire campaign. We're quickly finding that a fleet without squadron support - just to kill enemy squadrons if nothing else - is just not viable in CC. Especially without upgrades anywhere on Campaign round 1, those squadrons are going to be your primary method of dealing damage and protecting your ships.

They cannot hyperspace if they are within 5 of an Interdictor.

1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:

I can't see this ending well. It is way easier to build your squadrons up on turn one, and you can get more than 100 points of squadrons for the entire campaign. We're quickly finding that a fleet without squadron support - just to kill enemy squadrons if nothing else - is just not viable in CC. Especially without upgrades anywhere on Campaign round 1, those squadrons are going to be your primary method of dealing damage and protecting your ships.

I see your point of dealing damage with squads, but I don't see how it is easier to build up your squads in turn one than it would be to get a capital ship (along the lines of a 73 point VSD) after turn 1. What am I missing here?

I think if you are running a bunch of VSD's, Jerry or not, you want squadrons. But I applaud you and your meaty clackers.

Just now, SoonerTed said:

I see your point of dealing damage with squads, but I don't see how it is easier to build up your squads in turn one than it would be to get a capital ship (along the lines of a 73 point VSD) after turn 1. What am I missing here?

I think its actually a similar issue. Its getting enough of them to make a difference.

1 minute ago, Madaghmire said:

I think if you are running a bunch of VSD's, Jerry or not, you want squadrons. But I applaud you and your meaty clackers.

So, more than 2 or 3 TIEs?

I think the VSD/Int combo is strong in CC. I'd love for you to drop a VSD and have a wave of TIE fighters. That'd be awesome.

6 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

So, more than 2 or 3 TIEs?

Lol.

I mean thats just my preference though. I love the VSD as a carrier. The two components (VSD/Squads) complement each other well, with the VSD drawing opponents ships and creating a "chin" and the squadrons mobility compensating for the VSD's rigidity. I think you can probably cover up some of the flaws the squadrons normally do with formation flying and jerry turns with regards to opposing capital ships, but you now have the problem that once your enemy gets squadrons into one of your front arcs he can just ride the vic as they are continually displaced, and you have no good answer for/method of dissuading him from doing so on like, turn 2.

And the VSD/Jerry/Squad combo is SO good...

I think you should run 4 VSD II with Jerry and GTs on all, and 1 with Warlord. Go bold. Deny the naysayers.

If you are worried about squads, use GT to blast the ones in front. Deploy them in a line, with about 1/2 range 1 apart so you can peel one off to give chase to something, or turn your front arc to protect your flank. This will also stop fighters from getting in between your ships, and force them to stay in your front. If they try to get behind you, they will be outside command range. Even with BC, that carrier will be in arc of at least 2 ships, if not all of them meaning that is 6-12 red dice, and whatever blue dice you can muster.

I'd run Repairs and CF to keep them scary. Next round I'd get them upgraded. Maybe add squads if you want. Decimators would be great.

Remember, all you have to do is score more points than your opponent. Station Assault, Fire Lanes (if your meta doesn't use lots of Strategic) or Capture the VIP, and Solar Corona would be a good place to think about objectives.

Your problem lists you run into are Ackbar MC80s, MC30s since they can get behind you quickly, crazy bomber heavy lists with Nora and 2 BCC, and obviously Sato lists.

13 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

I see your point of dealing damage with squads, but I don't see how it is easier to build up your squads in turn one than it would be to get a capital ship (along the lines of a 73 point VSD) after turn 1. What am I missing here?

If you fill up 400 points on ships, this will give you 100 points or less on squadrons. Everyone else in your group will be running AT LEAST 134 points of squadrons after 1-2 campaign turns.

15 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think you should run 4 VSD II with Jerry and GTs on all, and 1 with Warlord. Go bold. Deny the naysayers.

If you are worried about squads, use GT to blast the ones in front. Deploy them in a line, with about 1/2 range 1 apart so you can peel one off to give chase to something, or turn your front arc to protect your flank. This will also stop fighters from getting in between your ships, and force them to stay in your front. If they try to get behind you, they will be outside command range. Even with BC, that carrier will be in arc of at least 2 ships, if not all of them meaning that is 6-12 red dice, and whatever blue dice you can muster.

I'd run Repairs and CF to keep them scary. Next round I'd get them upgraded. Maybe add squads if you want. Decimators would be great.

Remember, all you have to do is score more points than your opponent. Station Assault, Fire Lanes (if your meta doesn't use lots of Strategic) or Capture the VIP, and Solar Corona would be a good place to think about objectives.

Your problem lists you run into are Ackbar MC80s, MC30s since they can get behind you quickly, crazy bomber heavy lists with Nora and 2 BCC, and obviously Sato lists.

4 VSD-II's? Holy cow.....now THAT is an interesting thought. I was planning on using them in a line just line that, but wanted the Interdictor as well for future flexibility. I do love my ACMs on my VSDIs....but ...hmmmmmmm your idea is intriguing.

As far as I'm concerned anything goes turn one or take a squadron screen that can be rezed with the starting free refit points. Then put points into squadrons. Use HSE turn 1 if need be to save the fleet.

38 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think you should run 4 VSD II with Jerry and GTs on all, and 1 with Warlord. Go bold. Deny the naysayers.

If you are worried about squads, use GT to blast the ones in front. Deploy them in a line, with about 1/2 range 1 apart so you can peel one off to give chase to something, or turn your front arc to protect your flank. This will also stop fighters from getting in between your ships, and force them to stay in your front. If they try to get behind you, they will be outside command range. Even with BC, that carrier will be in arc of at least 2 ships, if not all of them meaning that is 6-12 red dice, and whatever blue dice you can muster.

I'd run Repairs and CF to keep them scary. Next round I'd get them upgraded. Maybe add squads if you want. Decimators would be great.

Remember, all you have to do is score more points than your opponent. Station Assault, Fire Lanes (if your meta doesn't use lots of Strategic) or Capture the VIP, and Solar Corona would be a good place to think about objectives.

Your problem lists you run into are Ackbar MC80s, MC30s since they can get behind you quickly, crazy bomber heavy lists with Nora and 2 BCC, and obviously Sato lists.

Well Warlord couldn't have Gunnery Teams on turn one, but the rest is interesting to me.

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

Define ran well?

Maturin vs Emfrank72: 10-1 (MoV 389)
SkyCake vs Emfrank: 9-2 (MoV 223)
Emfrank vs Brobafett: 6-5 (MoV 29)

That said, it could work well round 1 of CC. Worst case, get to turn 4 and hyperspace out of there. You will need someone to go and win the show of force so you can get squads fast!

Support refit of Interdictor, you are going to want a second expermental upgrade at some point.

Ha Ha. That is what I was going to point out. I had fun trying it and made many mistakes along the way. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go with 3 VSD I or II, an Interdoctor, and squads. Or more realistically 2 VSD, 1 Interdictor, 2-3 Gozantis, and squads. Maybe not all of that in a 400 point tournament but you get the idea. My other mistake was that 2 lone Decimators is a lousy way to destroy squads, especially uniques with scatter. You need some squads that can engage bombers.

For CC, you probably want to get as many large capital ships in your fleet to start out. It is doubtful that you will be able to add a capital ship of any size on turn 2 but depending upon how you play, it is certainly possible turn 3. That being said, I'd shoot for 3 bigger ships and squads turn 1 and then start adding upgrades and flotillas to flesh out the fleet. Also don't fogey that hyperspace is a wonderful thing in CC and can be used to salvage as much of your fleet as possible in an obvious losing situation. In my CC campaign I'm a rebel and playing a bomber fleet which is new for me but a lot of fun. I also consider myself a fairly new player so take any of my advice with a grain of salt.

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

If you fill up 400 points on ships, this will give you 100 points or less on squadrons. Everyone else in your group will be running AT LEAST 134 points of squadrons after 1-2 campaign turns.

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Well they cannot have a FCT Yavaris in the first turn of CC..............

Honestly, the game and CC just emphasizes squadrons too much. Limit ship upgrades, but no limit to squadrons beyond uniques?
Either way, Turn 1, you're be facing huge masses of squadrons period.
And once you get to Turn 2, were you can get unlimited upgrades, you're done.

Also, you CAN have FCT on another ship, Yavaris, and two transports with BCC. EASY.