This is another interesting interaction that goes into the same bucket as Hand of Justice vs Compartment Fire, I think

Capacitor Failure - If a hull zone has no remaining shields, you cannot recover shields in it, nor move shields to it, if that hull zone is defending, you cannot spend redirect tokens.

Projection experts - You may spend up to 2 engineering points to move that many shields from your ship to a friendly ship at distance 1-5.

The question is: can projection experts ship (ship A) send shields to another ship (ship B) with capacitor failure and 0 shields in the target hull zone?

I think that the answer is yes, because 'you' on the critical effect means ship B and with projection experts wording it is ship A that adds shields.

This is the exact same situation as below (EDIT: duh, you pointed it out yourself but I didn't see it... feeling dumb now)

The consensus is that the answer is yes, for the reason you gave. I see no reason why the same would not hold true here.

I happened to fortuitously jump into Pt's game as soon as this issue came up last night on Vassal.

I'll echo the point I made last night.

The damage deck was created and distributed with the core set.

Projection experts was released in Wave 2.

Because projection experts was not in existence at the time Capacitor Failure was written, the card could only have been written to mean that the afflicted ship itself, by using an engineering command, cannot recover shields in that hull zone.

While with projection experts, the afflicted ship is recovering shields in effect, it is not the ship itself that is recovering shields within the original meaning of Capacitor Failure.

Without an FAQ, I believe that Pt's interpretation is correct because of my reasoning and his own (which I also accept). But with an FAQ, I could see FFG reversing course.

Yeah, in theory I could see it being FAQ'd (or, less likely, errata'd) in the negative. But it's been 3 waves and I don't recall it having been an issue thus far, so...

I disagree with a fundamental assertion:

" Because projection experts was not in existence at the time Capacitor Failure was written, "

Previously, in an Interview, The Design Team has stated an 18-24 month Cycle in creating new content. That;'s why :Fixes: can take so long to get out into the wild. Also, that Development happens up until the item is at the Printer - occasionally to the day beforehand.

Its entirely possible and probable, that the Rule Effect of Projection Experts was known and planned alongside the Core Release.

Remember, Large Ships are mentioned in the Rule Book, after all.

Some things are sorted very quickly in a wave and expansion, too, as a counterpoint - but we;ll never know specifics.

I will state however, that I hate rules precedence based on "Well, it wasn't thought about."

Because I'm pretty sure it **** well was thought about - that's what the design team is, y'know, paid to do, as part of the process.

Because remember, Large Ships are specifically mentioned in the Core Rulebook. Despite not existing until Wave 2 ... The same time as Projection Experts.

Yes.

13 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I disagree with a fundamental assertion:

" Because projection experts was not in existence at the time Capacitor Failure was written, "

Previously, in an Interview, The Design Team has stated an 18-24 month Cycle in creating new content. That;'s why :Fixes: can take so long to get out into the wild. Also, that Development happens up until the item is at the Printer - occasionally to the day beforehand.

Its entirely possible and probable, that the Rule Effect of Projection Experts was known and planned alongside the Core Release.

Remember, Large Ships are mentioned in the Rule Book, after all.

Some things are sorted very quickly in a wave and expansion, too, as a counterpoint - but we;ll never know specifics.

I will state however, that I hate rules precedence based on "Well, it wasn't thought about."

Because I'm pretty sure it **** well was thought about - that's what the design team is, y'know, paid to do, as part of the process.

Because remember, Large Ships are specifically mentioned in the Core Rulebook. Despite not existing until Wave 2 ... The same time as Projection Experts.

This same argument gets thrown out virtually every time there's an edge interaction between effects from different waves.

Yes, it's true that CF could have been written before PE was conceived (unlikely, per Dras' discussion, but conceivable).

PE, on the other hand, was definitely written to account for CF, because CF was already published when PE released. PE could've been written differently, in such a way that it interacted differently with CF. But it wasn't.

"They came out at different times and are therefore probably incompatible" is not a good argument for any rules interaction in this game.

13 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

This same argument gets thrown out virtually every time there's an edge interaction between effects from different waves.

Yes, it's true that CF could have been written before PE was conceived (unlikely, per Dras' discussion, but conceivable).

PE, on the other hand, was definitely written to account for CF, because CF was already published when PE released. PE could've been written differently, in such a way that it interacted differently with CF. But it wasn't.

"They came out at different times and are therefore probably incompatible" is not a good argument for any rules interaction in this game.

"They came out at different times and are therefore probably incompatible" is not a good argument for any rules interaction in this game.

Yeah this is wrong.

There is a huge difference between taking into account cards already in existence when writing a new one and writing a new card while looking into a crystal ball.

If you want to debate whether Projection Experts was already in the development pipeline when FFG wrote Capacitor Failure, then fine.

Assuming that Projection Experts was not contemplated when CF was written, its one of the strongest arguments one can make.

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

Assuming that Projection Experts was not contemplated when CF was written, its one of the strongest arguments one can make.

I agree that it's one of the strongest arguments you can make for this, but that doesn't make it a strong argument, for the reasons I detailed above.

Let me put it to you this way: what makes you think that interaction with Capacitor Failure wasn't considered when Projection Experts was written?

17 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

I agree that it's one of the strongest arguments you can make for this, but that doesn't make it a strong argument, for the reasons I detailed above.

Let me put it to you this way: what makes you think that interaction with Capacitor Failure wasn't considered when Projection Experts was written?

Capacitor Failure was most certainly considered when Projection Experts was written because the former was already in existence when the latter was created.

To the contrary: it's an incredibly strong argument when you assume that Capacitor Failure was written before Projection Experts was contemplated.

It's not an unreasonable assumption to make either. Look, others have pointed out that some cards may have been written before the release of other cards, although those subsequently released cards may have already been created (and on "ice" for future Waves). Obviously the reason for this would be from a marketing perspective, to implement a staggered release of Waves to increase profit.

We're never going to know if Capacitor Failure was written with Projection Experts in mind unless we ask FFG. And to be frank, it'd be a waste of time and energy.

I don't see the disconnect here, but since we are all in agreement on how the card functions, I think it's best to just move on.

EDIT: Never mind, nothing to see here.