I really, really want to the love MC30, but I struggle to fly it consistently and effectively. It seems like I'm never putting it in a good spot to use those black dice efficiently. When I do get in there, I usually end up skirting away too quickly and can't get back into the action soon enough to affect much else happening on the table. It's frustrating to keep missing out on the firepower that makes it an alluring ship in the first place.

So is it the ship or is it me (I suspect the latter)? Do I really just have to spam nav commands for as long as it's still flying? What am I missing?

Thanks!

So, the hard answer to this is to make a list with them and bid hard for first but choose second player 200 times and lose almost every game until you slowly learn how to play as first or second. I will speak only for the close-range brawler flavor of 30, as that's what I like to run the most.

As for the helpful answer, you want some sort of defensive upgrades. If you take one, Admonition and Lando or Derlin together are a good place to start. APTs and OE helps up the damage output, and whatever turbolaser you like for flavor.

If you are first player, you want to typically activate it after a ship has already moved that turn and zoom up to close range, activating it first the next turn to vomit death on someone. When you are 1st player, in general you want only one ship that is an obvious choice to activate, and as 2nd player you want to be threatening two things, that way whatever moves first you get to pop the other thing.

You DEFINITELY want to spam Nav, but once you get used to them you can get comfortable enough to sneak in some some concentrate fires. Anyway, that's just some basic observations. None of this really comes close to actually moving stuff around and learning by playing.

I'm saying this in a friendly manner with a smile on my face.

Yes it's you.

I was in the same position about a year ago. I knew the Mc30 was my ship the moment I first laid eyes on one. But I couldn't fly them for crap. It took a long time, many loses, much reflection and learning, and then things started to click. Caldias' recommendations above are solid. It's an unforgiving ship. You live, die, and kill based on your flying.

I almost always regret not taking a Nav command. Pretty much the only other command I will do is Repair if I'm facing open space and am already at Speed 4 on an escape vector.

The key is learning the attack sequence. I've been meaning to take some Vassal pics to illustrate this, but it goes like this.

This is assuming you have ideal circumstances (last/first activation advantage)

Step (Turn) 1: 'The Setup' You choose which target ship your 30 will hit. You force your opponent to move it before you move. Your move this turn is setting up your 'Dive In' step next turn. If you are a Scout Frigate, you want to position yourself so that the target ship will move into your long range double arc next turn, but you are outside of their long range.

Step (Turn) 2: The 'Dive In' You wait for the target ship to move. It didn't get a shot on you. You long range double arc it and then move into a close range double arc. Before you make this move, you want to be thinking about your escape move past this ship next turn if you don't kill it.

Step (Turn) 3: The 'Hit and Run' You unleash close range double arc fury on the target ship. If it's a small shop it should be dead. If it's medium or large, you now make your escape move to its weak arc.

After you execute a 'Hit and Run' move, you can begin the sequence again on another ship. If you set it up well, your Step 3 escape move can be your Step 1 Setup move on another target.

This sequence can be in motion simultaneously with a second Mc30 that is 1 turn behind the first one, to where you are getting a last/first monster hit at the beginning of every round.

Also, if you're trying to defend against these types of ships, whatever you can do to disrupt that sequence will be to your benefit.

Im in the same boat, love this ship and its taking time to get good at it. Cant wait for my imperial opponets to fear it!

DON'T GIVE AWAY ALL MY SECRETS RIGHT BEFORE I HAVE TO PLAY CARIBBEAN NINJA, YOU GUYS!

Yeah, Caldias pretty much hit the nail on the head. His best recommendation: play and lose a ton of games as second player. Even if you win the bid, take second player. If you can learn to force star destroyers into your double arcs and how to setup no-win choices for your opponent as second player, not only will it let you slash that awful bid for first that most MSU brawler players have to make, but you can still use all those same tricks as first player.

Matt is completely wrong by definition because he's flying scouts. Pfft. But if he weren't, his advice would also be good. He maps out the general approach well.

I have two general pieces of advice for MC30 payers.

1) Be disciplined. Start at speed 3, deploy deep in your back field, and always take a nav token on your first turn. Keep that nav token for as long as you possibly can. Your unpredictability is both your sword and your shield. If your opponent doesn't know if you're jumping to 4 or slamming on the brakes to 1, it becomes extraordinarily difficult for him to lay traps for you, and to avoid the ones you're laying for him.

2) Be aggressive. This one is hard to teach. You can show up with it; you can get it from painful, losing experience (like I did); or you just don't have it. Of all the ships in this game, the shrimp is the high-risk/high-reward choice. But you must be bold with it. It can't handle sustained punishment at all, but it can weather short bursts like no other. Don't be afraid to dive face-first into that Rhymerball if you have Mon Mothma or Admonition to fall back on. Don't be scared of that ISD1 without rerolls or XI7. Anything that doesn't one-shot you on approach, you can pull their shirt over their heads, give them a wedgie, and suckerpunch them before you run off. Sure, you're going to get hurt. But hurt ain't dead, which is what the other guy's going to be. You know the re-entry scene in Apollo 13? That's what every single fight should feel like for you.

BONUS) Think two turns ahead. This goes for every ship, but because your firing arcs are so unforgiving, it goes doubly for you. When you're lining up an attack run, know all the different places the target could be next turn, and have a plan to threaten all of those places viciously. Then, know all the places that your opponent can threaten the following turn, and have a plan to be somewhere else.

Good luck with the least forgiving, most rewarding, and most excellent ship in the game!

The above posts pretty much cover everything. I'd stress the most important as being able to play second player.

Ard I fly Scouts cuz they put rounds on target Turns 2 through 6. Thus, I don't need 4 of them.

5 minutes ago, Matt Antilles said:

Ard I fly Scouts cuz they put rounds on target Turns 2 through 6. Thus, I don't need 4 of them.

These kids with their 12" range bands.

As a player who is still learning to fly his mc30's better as second player, take Rieekan as your admiral while learning. He is very forgiving as you learn to dive your ships in for attacks. Even if you die, you still get to unleash the double arc fury and get some satisfaction from its devastating shots before you remove it from the board. You can then move to Mon Mothma, Acbar, or even Madine for better navs.

1 hour ago, itzSteve said:

As a player who is still learning to fly his mc30's better as second player, take Rieekan as your admiral while learning. He is very forgiving as you learn to dive your ships in for attacks. Even if you die, you still get to unleash the double arc fury and get some satisfaction from its devastating shots before you remove it from the board. You can then move to Mon Mothma, Acbar, or even Madine for better navs.

Also, as second player it's easier if you have 2 MC30s supporting each other, rather than just one.

I think it's worth remembering the versatility of the MC30; sure, your main aim is to make use of those black dice, but don't discount its effectiveness at range. There's a reason the MC30 comes with turbolaser reroute circuits - with the redundant evade, TRCs are the most efficient way to make the most of those red dice, and that can make the Scout a pain in the neck at any range. This best comes into its own when combined with the right admiral and titles - with Ackbar and Home One, you can be throwing four red dice at your opponent, one of which you can guarantee as a double hit, and another as an accuracy; with Sato, you can be throwing black dice at long range, making good use of your APTs, ACMs and ordnance experts. This makes the MC30 not only far and away the Rebels' best brawler, but also an extremely flexible ship throughout the game, so it's not just about that one turn of black dice; it's about skulking and picking the right moment to strike.

Wow, this thread is exactly what I needed. I'm just starting out, maybe half a dozen games in, and the MC30 is by far my favourite ship but it's been a challenge to fly it effectively. Just yesterday I finally managed to use it to double arc and kill a Gladiator on the third turn, then swoop around and get some shots into the rear of a Victory that was coming from the opposite direction. It was a lot of good luck (I mean, I did roll four hit/crits on four blacks...) and I still ended up losing by a hair, but man that was the most fun I've had with this game yet and I'm looking forward to getting better at it.

So I really appreciate all the great advice, good stuff!

I'll add some other stuff as a heavy MC30 player.

The Inside Turn
How can I be coming in so late and no one has mentioned the inside turn? The MC30 benefits significantly from the inside turn at all speeds. The inside turn is something that even experienced players don't often use, especially if they use very few small base ships since only small base ships can do one. The idea is that instead of putting the maneuver tool on the inside part of the turn, you put it on the outside part of the turn. This requires putting no clicks on the last joint, but it allows you to cover a slightly shorter distance without losing speed in exchange for the loss of maneuverability. Consider a speed 2 inside turn in the attached image. The inside turn stays out of the red range, and the outside turn puts you into the red range.

Deployment Speed
Personally, I like speed 2 deployment against a fleet that has ISDs or other ships with large, heavy hitting arcs. First turn I bank a nav token and then spam navigate commands like pretty much everyone already said. At speed 2 with a token, you can almost always jump from outside the heavy hitting arc's long range to an arc with much fewer dice depending on their speed and position, with or without the token. The token gives you a lot of flexibility. You can use it to go to speed 4 as first player to jump to the side of that ISD after it activates. You can use it after your attack run to stay engaged if you didn't take much damage on your initial engagement. Speed 3 is the sweet spot for maneuverability, but it doesn't give you many shots if you start out there unless your goal is to get beyond the front line.

Deployment Position
Since you almost always want to be flying two of them, there are some additional things to consider during deployment. There are three approaches to deployment with MC30s, and your selection of one over another depends on your opponent. The positions are similar to aircraft formations: in trail, echelon, and spread.

In trail, you fly the MC30s in a line. This is most often useful against an enemy who also has fast ships. By flying them in a line, your opponent has less capability to arc jump you since it's unlikely they'll be able to completely clear both side arcs unless they ended last turn inside the front MC30's side. You want to be careful with using this against a large ship because they have the capability to park in front of you and be a real pain for maneuvering. The survivability of MC30s is in their shields, not their hull. So rams are bad. Very. Very. Bad.

In echelon, the MC30s are deployed next to each other but typically with one slightly behind the other. If you're going against small ships, you want to be no farther apart than black range. Against bigger ships, you want to be closer together so both of them can hopefully arc jump to the same side of your target ship. As you maneuver them against multiple ships, you move in such a way that your opponent has very little space to go that avoids those hard-hitting side arcs. If you're first player, you typically don't want to leave them both threatened after they move. But usually, you're going for a one-activation kill against smaller ships and it's less of an issue.

Spread is one I don't use hardly at all anymore. It might work better with Scouts and Akbar though, so YMMV. While the MC30 is fast, an equally fast fleet will just outrun you. If you think this is a risk, you can deploy the two MC30s on opposite sides of the map at speed 3 or 4, two distance rulers from each side. You then fly them to intercept, aiming for where you think your opponent will be in two or three turns. I would only do this if you think your opponent is going to try to outrun the MC30s with all their ships because one of them is almost certainly not going to get any shots in this formation.

to echo many others I wad on the same boat it just takes practice.

More or less everything that needs to be said has been said. I'll add that for whatever Kool Aid Ard tries to make you drink regarding Torpedo Frigates, Scout Frigates have their own value. They can take TRC's and become a credible threat at range against large based ships, as well as the Imperial medium based ships, which can help in forcing your opponent to commit to engagement on more favorable terms. Meanwhile they handle red return fire exceptionally well with their titles and token suite.

I'm taking them with Sato.

... What's a Red Die ?

6 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I'm taking them with Sato.

... What's a Red Die ?

I like Scouts with Sato because they effectively become Torpedo at short-medium range. Against a flotilla target or anything with a single non-ECM Brace, blues are better than reds. I thought about editing my original post after I wrote it, but I'll edit this one. Sato with Scouts is the other Admiral where a spread formation might be acceptable.

Just now, comatose said:

I like Scouts with Sato because they effectively become Torpedo at short-medium range. Against a flotilla target or anything with a single non-ECM Brace, blues are better than reds.

I have APTs

... What's a Blue Die?

Just now, Drasnighta said:

I have APTs

... What's a Blue Die?

No damage against a flotilla, half damage against a VSD. My point was flexibility.

Just now, comatose said:

No damage against a flotilla, half damage against a VSD. My point was flexibility.

APT! IT CAN'T BE BRACED! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, I know, I'm being silly... But its part of the Strat, basically. I'm trying to take down bigger prey - I don't need to be throwing at Flotillas until the big prey is done, basically (as the MC30 is too fragile to duke out at both). Which means Long Range Duelling with Black Dice, and taking little return fire - and what fire is returned is less reliable than what I'm throwing out there... Most of the Imperial things I'm range-duelling with don't have Evades, anyway... The ones that do, well, its probably an Arq, and I'm playing "Nose to Nose" with them...

And honestly....

... I'm thinking of going ACMs for my CC list, anyway.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

APT! IT CAN'T BE BRACED! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, I know, I'm being silly... But its part of the Strat, basically. I'm trying to take down bigger prey - I don't need to be throwing at Flotillas until the big prey is done, basically (as the MC30 is too fragile to duke out at both). Which means Long Range Duelling with Black Dice, and taking little return fire - and what fire is returned is less reliable than what I'm throwing out there... Most of the Imperial things I'm range-duelling with don't have Evades, anyway... The ones that do, well, its probably an Arq, and I'm playing "Nose to Nose" with them...

And honestly....

... I'm thinking of going ACMs for my CC list, anyway.

After my regional next month, I might swap in Sato, Scouts, and Yavaris with some Relays to try out a mix that hits super hard from close-long range. I also kind of want to try a Fire Control Team with ACM - strip those shields off and then the bonus adjacent damage starts becoming face-up damage.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

APT! IT CAN'T BE BRACED! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, I know, I'm being silly... But its part of the Strat, basically. I'm trying to take down bigger prey - I don't need to be throwing at Flotillas until the big prey is done, basically (as the MC30 is too fragile to duke out at both). Which means Long Range Duelling with Black Dice, and taking little return fire - and what fire is returned is less reliable than what I'm throwing out there... Most of the Imperial things I'm range-duelling with don't have Evades, anyway... The ones that do, well, its probably an Arq, and I'm playing "Nose to Nose" with them...

And honestly....

... I'm thinking of going ACMs for my CC list, anyway.

I was one of the last holdouts for ACM in W2. The only reason I switched was the superior one-shot value of the APT. With a Sato build, you're not as concerned with one-shots anymore as much as raw throughput, so I agree that ACM is probably the right call there.

After the mental image that all of these tips gave me (awesome tips everyone, by the way), I really want someone to make a gif of that Nazi getting punched, with an ISD superimposed on his face and an MC30 on the guy who sucker punched him.

Would be hilarious (at least it is in my head)

Thanks, all. This has been super useful!

Since Ginkapo hasn't shown up to represent his Acbar shrimps....I will. I love equipping a torpedo mc30 with enhanced armament and sensor teams. Three reds, 2 blues, 3 blacks can be the hardest hitting mc30 out there.