Hey all,

So if a gunner droid brain is installed with both increased Gunnery Skill mods added it has Gunnery 4, Agility 0.

-With an advanced targeting array this can receive two upgrades (creating a YYGG pool).

-The fluff text indicates it can assist a sentient gunner. Does this mean it can grant a Boost die to a sentient gunner or combine it's four ranks of skill with whatever the sentient's agility is (a very effective bit of aid!)?

-Does the droid brain also get a maneuver in addition to it's action to fire? (essentially a chance to aim every round?)

-If a technician with Speaks Binary orders the droid brain to shoot a particular target would the bonus dice from Speaks Binary apply to the attack?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Finarin

#1. Yes

#2. If the sentient ranks in Gunnery are less the Gunnery Droid Brain's ranks, then yes it combines the sentient's Agility with the four ranks. If the sentient has four ranks in Gunnery, it is just a Boost die. I think..

#3. I am not sure Droid Brains can use maneuvers on their turn.

#4. Yes. Multiple times if multiple ranks are purchased.

#3 is tricky, because the description doesn't say that the droid brain doesn't get a maneuver, but on the other hand, it doesn't have a full stat block like a rival NPC would. Search didn't turn up any mention in the Developer question thread. That said, if droid brains can't take maneuvers, then they can't assist and can only be assisted, since assisting is a maneuver. Based on that, I would err on the side of letting them have maneuvers.

#4 Not only can Speaks Binary apply, but a Droid Tech could conceivably apply Improved Speaks Binary if ordering the droid brain to assist another character's Gunnery check, letting them add a boost die in addition to whatever other benefits assistance provides (assuming droid brains are allowed to assist).

I am not sure if the droid gunner brain has regular maneuvers on its own and I am relative positive that it has no actions. Basically it can just do one thing: Assist the gunner and malfunction shoot than on its own instead. In cases when attachment can fire automatically the rules usually mention this, which is not the case for the gunner brain.

I'd never considered that Speaks Binary could be applied to droid combat checks...interesting and makes the ship mechanic a great partner for their new Droid Gunner Brain.

48 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I am not sure if the droid gunner brain has regular maneuvers on its own and I am relative positive that it has no actions. Basically it can just do one thing: Assist the gunner and malfunction shoot than on its own instead. In cases when attachment can fire automatically the rules usually mention this, which is not the case for the gunner brain.

Quote

Droid brain can perform Gunnery checks for vehicle with a Gunnery skill of 2 and an Agility of 0 (if unassisted. it rolls (2 green dice) for Gunnery checks). Although a droid brain can be connected to more than one weapon system. it is still limited to one action per turn.

To me, this definitely spells out that the droid brain can fire on its own. You could still make a case for it not having maneuvers though.

You are correct. Interesting can of worms.

Quote

Droid brain can perform Gunnery checks

This phrase specifically states that a droid brain can perform an action, since combat skill checks are actions. Last I checked, the RAW permits an action to be used (traded) for a maneuver.

I would absolutely allow the droid brain an Aim restricted Maneuver (as well as an Action) on it's turn. Just makes perfect sense to me that it would 'aim' with all attacks as part of it's software (essentially a kind of 'target lock').

3 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

This phrase specifically states that a droid brain can perform an action, since combat skill checks are actions. Last I checked, the RAW permits an action to be used (traded) for a maneuver.

This still only allows either an attack OR an aim maneuver in the action, as it is still only a single option. You could allow for it to take an aim maneuver in the same way a character can take a second maneuver, but it causes 2 system strain (like a character would take strain, but the droid brain does not have its own strain track).

For me, this would depend on the group. If the Gunnery brain was installed because the party has no Gunnery based characters, and no desire to rank up the skill, I'd probably let the brain Aim for a boost, since its their only line of offense.

For a group with some Gunnery and an active gunner, I'd say the brain isn't advanced enough to Aim itself, so as to avoid overshadowing any PCs. Sure, the ship can fire on its own, but it needs a sentient gunner to really be effective.

2. Skilled Assistance can only be used out of combat. So most of the time if the Droid Brain is assisting an actual Gunner then it will "only" be providing a Boost.

4 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

2. Skilled Assistance can only be used out of combat. So most of the time if the Droid Brain is assisting an actual Gunner then it will "only" be providing a Boost.

´Really?

Tthat must be one of the worst offenders for misleading descriptions in an FFG book then, mentioned that the agility of zero when unassisted and the basic dice pool, when they just meant that it gets one boost dice when assisted. But it certainly would solve one of the balance problems that you get from that cheap, zero hardpoint costing monsters. This thread seems to remove a pretty good amount of misconceptions I had over the rules, and it is still a pretty good attachment as it increases the action economy dramatically when it can shoot on its own once per turn and can installed multiple times for each weapon system on the ship and synergies with the advanced targetting array and other gunnery mods.

edit:
But admittedly, I did not read this from the rules. "During combat […] , assistance can be accomplished by performing the assist maneuver. The assist maneuver allows an ally to benefit from assistance provided by an engaged ally on his next skill check." This would include both forms of assistance, unskilled and skilled.
The assist maneuver itself describes than unskilled assistance as default. I guess you might be right. *shrugs*

Then that means the Astrogation and Autopilot Droid Brains gain skilled assistance benefits since the skills they possess can be used outside of combat. The "if unassisted, the -insert droid brain here- rolls GG" makes everything fuzzy. The text seems to indicate the that PC would be assisting the droid brain, rather than the droid brain assisting the PC.

1 hour ago, Oden Gebhac said:

Then that means the Astrogation and Autopilot Droid Brains gain skilled assistance benefits since the skills they possess can be used outside of combat. The "if unassisted, the -insert droid brain here- rolls GG" makes everything fuzzy. The text seems to indicate the that PC would be assisting the droid brain, rather than the droid brain assisting the PC.

That's true but, in the interests of keeping it fun, any time a choice is made between a PC or NPC making a check it's usually (obviously) better to let the Player roll.

By a strict reading of the rules, I think Richardbuxton is right, but in the interests of clarity, I fired off a rules question to the developers on whether or not someone can provide skilled assistance during structured time (such as on an attack roll during combat). I'll update everyone when I get a response.

6 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

That's true but, in the interests of keeping it fun, any time a choice is made between a PC or NPC making a check it's usually (obviously) better to let the Player roll.

If skilled assistance is possible, the droid brain could instead assist the PC too and thus make the PC make the roll. That's actually how we played it the whole time as the whole group misread the rule.

Though brings another issue as it makes gunnery, piloting and astrogation skill nearly useless when you can get a skill of 4 from the droid brain for just about 10,000 credits. Which is one of the reasons why I am quite certain that you are correct with your reading of the rules. Asking just in case is nice and all, more importantly would be to make the rules more clear in the next printings of fly casual and special modifications.

Honestly I haven't had to interpret the rules at all. The sub heading "Assistance And Timing" (core rules EotE p26, AoR p33, FaD p34) is very clear in what Assistance can be provided during structured play. You can only use the Assist Manoeuvre and it only provides a single Boost die that must be used by the end of the assisted characters next turn.

I figured this would spark some debate

I have to agree that skilled assistance is only an option outside structured time (in non-combat situations basically).

It does seem that the droid brains (all of them really) should get a maneuver as well as an action, but like a rival would be unable to voluntarily spend strain to gain an additional maneuver. This would seem to affect Pilot Droid Brains the most except that they can downgrade their action to a maneuver to take the two they'd want since they wouldn't typically need a piloting action.

The Order 66 Podcast suggests that Speaks Binary should apply without any need for the Assist Maneuver from the Mechanic in question (as an incidental essentially). He can just order the Gunner Droid Brain to shoot down the enemy and apply any and all benefits from Speaks Binary that he possesses.

Its been a few months but this topic popped back into my head while I was considering starfighter upgrades. The action economy is a bit bleak for single seat fighter pilots as you often want to spend your action on flying (GtA) and if you have droid brain to pull the trigger for you with its own action, that's awesome. Even with the least generous interpretations of the rules (1 action, no aiming) droid brains can be made pretty accurate, and the pilot telling it to shoot another fighter should qualify it for any Speaks Binary bonus dice as well.

The thing is, when does it shoot? It does not have any applicable stats for rolling initiative, so should it always go last (npc rolling zero success and zero advantage) or would it act in the pilots initiative slot, which essentially makes it a bonus action?

I just re-read the section and indeed they would have to provide assistance via a maneuver, but I looked around and couldn't find rules that said that they couldn't use a maneuver, so if someone could point me to that I would appreciate it. But even if they can't, they could turn their action into a maneuver couldn't they?

Barring that, the player sits down at the controls and the gunner brain provides skilled assistance (either via maneuver or turning it's action into a maneuver) and provides agility 0 and gunnery 4 to the agililty 3 gunnery 0 character. The brain has a higher gunnery, so they player adds the gunnery 4 to his 3 agility for a final pool of GYYY. The player can then use an aim maneuver for a total pool of GYYYB.

If the player instead assisted the gunner brain, he could provide his 3 agility to the brain's 4 gunnery for the same pool, but this would allow the player to use the speaks binary talent since he is directing and assisting the gunner brain to fire bringing the pool to GYYY(Bx speaks binary). In this case, I would still allow the player to make the roll for fun's sake.

Whether or not the droid brains can aim as well, I'll let others figure out, but it really looks like with speaks binary it's better to allow the brain to do the firing.

Skilled assistance can only be provided out of combat.

The Gunner Brain can use its AAAA pool to shoot during combat, or it can provide a Boost for assistance as a Manoeuvre.

When does it act? Personally I think it's simpler if it acts when the PC flying the ship does.

11 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Skilled assistance can only be provided out of combat.

I just re-re-read the assistance section and there was nothing about skilled assistance can only be provided outside of combat. Can you please point out where it says that so that I can reference it later?

EotE Core p26. Sub Heading: Assistance And Timing.

Its annoying, but I understand why they did it, 2 characters performing the same action at the same time doesn't fit easily into their Initiative system.

Having a gunner droid brain providing an extra action is a huge boon for single seat fighter. I'd almost call it game breaking if the system already didn't favor ships with separate gunners already.

Granted, a simple unmodified GDB has fairly unspectacular accuracy and the price tag might not be warranted for the cheapest fighters, but i cant for the life of me understand why it wouldn't be standard issue on a fighter costing 70K+ or so.