Except I don' see converting as a problem. I see it as the goal.

And as for Matt's other posts and Screen name, all of that points to is he loves and wants to play a Jedi. All the more reason to build a proper Jedi character with the career he requested, namely a Sentinel or a Mystic, not a Bounty Hunter.

18 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Except I don' see converting as a problem. I see it as the goal.

And as for Matt's other posts and Screen name, all of that points to is he loves and wants to play a Jedi. All the more reason to build a proper Jedi character with the career he requested, namely a Sentinel or a Mystic, not a Bounty Hunter.

So you admitted you were having problems/difficulties converting, but now refuse to admit that trying to "convert" is the source of these problems/difficulties? Ok... you go take the blue pill wake up in your bed tomorrow and believe whatever you want to believe (is case you missed it this is a reference to "The Matrix", either that or to viagra ).

As for what Matt wants, what you are apparently far too myopic to see, it's to play a powerful BAMF with a light saber and force powers sneaky "jedi" and he doesn't particular care about the particular of the build that gets him that.

19 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

So you admitted you were having problems/difficulties converting, but now refuse to admit that trying to "convert" is the source of these problems/difficulties? Ok... you go take the blue pill wake up in your bed tomorrow and believe whatever you want to believe (is case you missed it this is a reference to "The Matrix", either that or to viagra ).

As for what Matt wants, what you are apparently far too myopic to see, it's to play a powerful BAMF with a light saber and force powers sneaky "jedi" and he doesn't particular care about the particular of the build that gets him that.

The only reason why I was having initial trouble was deciding how I wanted to convert skill ranks from D20 to FFG (unlike Korath, this character is a native D20 RCRB character). And, for the record, it's mostly done now, just needs some minor tweaking, as well as the Emotional Strengths/Weaknesses, etc.

So, Matt, if you want an actual badass Jedi Sentinel (like you asked for), rather than a Bounty Hunter, I'll email it to you. It's too big to attach.

Tramp? Any feedback on my post?

20 minutes ago, Silim said:

Tramp? Any feedback on my post?

I can't open that file. Post it on SWSheets.com and provide a link, I can look at it there. As for not being that good of a GM, neither am I. One of the points of this campaign is to give those of us who need it more experience as, and to learn from, GMs, as well as continue to play our favorite PCs.

5 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The only reason why I was having initial trouble was deciding how I wanted to convert skill ranks from D20 to FFG (unlike Korath, this character is a native D20 RCRB character). And, for the record, it's mostly done now, just needs some minor tweaking, as well as the Emotional Strengths/Weaknesses, etc.

So, Matt, if you want an actual badass Jedi Sentinel (like you asked for), rather than a Bounty Hunter, I'll email it to you. It's too big to attach.

You could host it on mediafire and post a link to it here.

Unlike you, I have faith in Matt's ability to recognize that THE LABEL applied a set of game mechanics which are appropriate to a character concept is less than meaningless.

45 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

You could host it on mediafire and post a link to it here.

Unlike you, I have faith in Matt's ability to recognize that THE LABEL applied a set of game mechanics which are appropriate to a character concept is less than meaningless.

I'm gonna put it in a Zip file and try that. I had to add a couple of skills anyway because It was missing one of the "free " career skills and over paid on XP for some other career skill ranks that should be free, so I added some ranks in Vigilance and Discipline, two skills not included in D20.

Now, as for career "labels" being "meaningless", I disagree. The career are fundamental to the character's whole mindset. A Bounty Hunter has a vastly different outlook and motivation than a Jedi Sentinel. That's why a character is locked into one specific career. It's a commitment. It's not just "fluff". It has specific mechanical effects on the character. No matter how many out of career specs a character has, he or she is still a member of that one career, and it forever colors his/her outlook and how he/she interacts with others.

11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I'm gonna put it in a Zip file and try that. I had to add a couple of skills anyway because It was missing one of the "free " career skills and over paid on XP for some other career skill ranks that should be free, so I added some ranks in Vigilance and Discipline, two skills not included in D20.

Now, as for career "labels" being "meaningless", I disagree. The career are fundamental to the character's whole mindset. A Bounty Hunter has a vastly different outlook and motivation than a Jedi Sentinel. That's why a character is locked into one specific career. It's a commitment. It's not just "fluff". It has specific mechanical effects on the character. No matter how many out of career specs a character has, he or she is still a member of that one career, and it forever colors his/her outlook and how he/she interacts with others.

Is a "bounty hunter" narratively sneaky/streetwise? Is a "sentinel" narratively sneaky/streetwise?

Are the bounty hunter career skills appropriate for a sentinel?

Is a character's "outlook" set by their game mechanical "career" or by their player's decisions about how to roleplay the character?

By the way a narrative career can have absolutely nothing to do with a game mechanical "career" i.e. there is no reason a character whose game mechanical "career" ever had to train in or participate in "bounty hunting" as such the "bounty hunter career" is not required to have any impact on their "outlook". This is a very simple concept that Tramp has never managed to master in the over a decade i've known him.

12 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Now, as for career "labels" being "meaningless", I disagree. The career are fundamental to the character's whole mindset. A Bounty Hunter has a vastly different outlook and motivation than a Jedi Sentinel. That's why a character is locked into one specific career. It's a commitment. It's not just "fluff". It has specific mechanical effects on the character. No matter how many out of career specs a character has, he or she is still a member of that one career, and it forever colors his/her outlook and how he/she interacts with others.

Fundamental to mindset? No, not unless the player wants it to be.

Differences in outlook and motivation? Not determined by career.

Locked into one career? Sure, but it really doesn't mean as much as you think it does.

Commitment? Minimal, and only for mechanical effects (see next line).

Not just "fluff" but has mechanical effects? True, but only in where starting skill ranks go, what you can choose as a starting specialization, which skills and specs you pay a very minor amount of extra XP to pick up (and the skills part can be mitigated through specs that cover the skills you want), what signature abilities are open to you, and whether you start with Force Rating 1 (and there are other ways to get this). And that's all it does. (Yep, I can bold stuff too!)

Forever colors outlook and interactions? Not determined by career.

To make a point, I could play a character with three specializations--one (starting) in-career spec and two out-of-career specs--and no signature abilities and, so long as I covered the "career" line with opaque tape, you'd never know for certain which career my character started in because I can play a character, not a label .

7 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Fundamental to mindset? No, not unless the player wants it to be.

Differences in outlook and motivation? Not determined by career.

Locked into one career? Sure, but it really doesn't mean as much as you think it does.

Commitment? Minimal, and only for mechanical effects (see next line).

Not just "fluff" but has mechanical effects? True, but only in where starting skill ranks go, what you can choose as a starting specialization, which skills and specs you pay a very minor amount of extra XP to pick up (and the skills part can be mitigated through specs that cover the skills you want), what signature abilities are open to you, and whether you start with Force Rating 1 (and there are other ways to get this). And that's all it does. (Yep, I can bold stuff too!)

Forever colors outlook and interactions? Not determined by career.

To make a point, I could play a character with three specializations--one (starting) in-career spec and two out-of-career specs--and no signature abilities and, so long as I covered the "career" line with opaque tape, you'd never know for certain which career my character started in because I can play a character, not a label .

And that's where we fundamentally disagree. Based on the RAW, a character's career greatly affects his/her entire outlook, which is why the choice of career is something to be considered very carefully because it can't be changed. Page 63 of F&D is very clear about that.

Quote

A career represents a character's general approach to living life and overcoming challenges. <snip>

An important consideration at this stage is the fact that a character's career does not change. This is a reflection of the PC's central personality. The overall approach toward challenges and confrontations remains consistent, even as a character learns new techniques and occupations through one or more specializations.

Now, that, to me, says that a character's. career is fundamental to how that character is played and how he/she interacts with others.

Be aware that the passage you quoted are not rules text and the game plays perfectly well without them. If I read the book the way you do then I wouldn't be able to have my characters evolve beyond their original concept, and there's far too many examples of characters (Star Wars and otherwise) that have done just that. Luke Skywalker, an Ace per AoR's section of the same type as you quoted from, certainly doesn't act much like an Ace after Hoth--at Endor he avoids the most massive space battle in a long time to do some out-of-career stuff with a lightsaber and the Force.

11 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Be aware that the passage you quoted are not rules text and the game plays perfectly well without them. If I read the book the way you do then I wouldn't be able to have my characters evolve beyond their original concept, and there's far too many examples of characters (Star Wars and otherwise) that have done just that. Luke Skywalker, an Ace per AoR's section of the same type as you quoted from, certainly doesn't act much like an Ace after Hoth--at Endor he avoids the most massive space battle in a long time to do some out-of-career stuff with a lightsaber and the Force.

Be aware that there are reasons why the iconic characters don't have game stats, much less PC stats. It's because no one can agree on what those stats "should"'be. At Luke's core, he's a Jedi, first and foremost. Thus his career (at least with the release of F&D) would be a Force using career, most likely Guardian or Sentinel, though possibly Warrior.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Be aware that there are reasons why the iconic characters don't have game stats, much less PC stats. It's because no one can agree on what those stats "should"'be. At Luke's core, he's a Jedi, first and foremost. Thus his career (at least with the release of F&D) would be a Force using career, most likely Guardian or Sentinel, though possibly Warrior.

And you don't believe that a PC can be just as rich and complex?

I'm fine with bounty hunter, I didn't want it before because before I didn't have the proper core rulebook. Now I do. End of discussion

11 hours ago, Matt Skywalker said:

I'm fine with bounty hunter, I didn't want it before because before I didn't have the proper core rulebook. Now I do. End of discussion

IF you're OK with it, that's fine. IF you still want a proper Sentinel, I do have one written up you can look at here . The only things he needs are Motivations, and Emotional Strengths and Weaknesses. Basically, he's a big, scary white Wookiee with a paired lightsaber and ryyk blade

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

IF you're OK with it, that's fine. IF you still want a proper Sentinel, I do have one written up you can look at here . The only things he needs are Motivations, and Emotional Strengths and Weaknesses. Basically, he's a big, scary white Wookiee with a paired lightsaber and ryyk blade

It says that your file doesn't exist. I'll PM you my email and you can email me the link

8 minutes ago, Matt Skywalker said:

It says that your file doesn't exist. I'll PM you my email and you can email me the link

try it now.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

try it now.

Didn't work

Just now, Matt Skywalker said:

Didn't work

Check your email then. I don't know what's wrong with the dropbox link.

No offence I hope, but I like, matt Skywalker the bounty hunter better(then again, it might be because the wookie has less xp)

7 minutes ago, Matt Skywalker said:

No offence I hope, but I like, matt Skywalker the bounty hunter better(then again, it might be because the wookie has less xp)

Well, the character was only 10th level in D20, and most of his skill points had gone into Force skills, and intimidation. I had to really fudge him a bit to convert him. I didn't add a Signature ability, because I figured I'd let you do that.

Thank you. Which ones can I get.(meaning getting the bottom of the tree thing, the tree names aren't labeled. And ebb/flow isn't very good.) If you could fix that, then thank you.

Just now, Matt Skywalker said:

Thank you. Which ones can I get.

The Sentinel Signature Abilities are My City , and Unmatched Vigilance . Both found In Endless Vigil. This file has both of the Sign Ability trees for all of the F&D careers except Consular, Mystic, and Warrior. The Sentinel Sig ability trees are on page 23 of the PDF.

1 hour ago, Matt Skywalker said:

Thank you. Which ones can I get.(meaning getting the bottom of the tree thing, the tree names aren't labeled. And ebb/flow isn't very good.) If you could fix that, then thank you.

In order to fix the Ebb/Flow sheet, I have to wait for Ahrimon to update his Force Power Sheets PDF to include the ones from Disciples of Harmony . The one in the PDF I sent you is just a placeholder . IT's the only copy of that Force power I have until the FPS pdf is updated. Besides, that character folio is only for your reference for putting the character up on SWSheets. It's not intended for actual play. You can add either of the Signature abilities to his Sentry spec, (it's maxed out) already. Once again, the label is blank so you can add what you want. Just let me know which one you want, and which upgrades (if any) and I can add it in. As I said, they're on page 23 of the F&D Specs PDF.

Sorry, but I really like the idea of playing a bounty hunter turned sentinel. I'll be playing Elias' character