48 minutes ago, aermet69 said:

This is a nice move. He'll definitely be worth trying out. It makes a lot of sense for IG-88 to get this kind of upgrade, as there is no reason to really print a new IG-88 (as with Luke). I could see Chewie and Han just get new versions and be done with that as they evolve during the story. I agree with others, that this really shows that they listen and care. Not just about pushing out new product.

I agree. I prefer a fix to the Wizards of the Coast way of keep launching ever lower quality miniatures with more abilities. The miniatures for this game have been great. Luke was very much an exception canonically, so I fully understood that. Han, Leia, Chewbacca, or even Vader made no leap of ability over the course of the Trilogy. I hate to say it, because I worry about what will come in the future, but Luke should be, and remain, the most powerful figure in the whole game, with Darth Vader on par.

18 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

Side note, I get that Zach Bunn is the face of Covenant or the owner or whatever he is, but I can't help but feel this interview would have been wayyyy better with Vader's finest in control. Set the ego aside Zach let someone more qualified take the reins!

Huh? I think Zach is fine. Actually I've stopped listening to Vader's Finest - they actually come across as cocky and self-important. Always talking as if they're the definitive authority on everything - they talk about games/strategy etc very rhetorically. And I can't stand them constantly saying "Bugatti" and "Daddy"

17 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

He says off the bat it is a post worlds interview, so I just thought maybe one of the guys who just finished top 4 and runs a podcast surrounding the game would have been better suited for interviews involving future content. But maybe that is an idea for them for a future show.

So if Team Covenant want to interview someone they should get Vader's Finest to do it? How about TC do their own interview and VF do their own?

12 hours ago, nickv2002 said:

Skirmish upgrades are needed because we have to have a single baseline cost for tournaments. But for campaign, if you're not happy with the threat cost to deploy IG-88, then it's your campaign: make some house-rules. You could reduce his cost or just assume he's deployed with this new attachment. There are several threads full of suggestions for reducing costs on this forum. It's your game, play it the way you want.

Yea exactly this, I've been house ruling allies and villains since day 1, is it an official fix? No. But is it doable with a crowd of reasonable players? Absolutely. I trust that they have some form of algorithm for calculating these costs and there is a reason that they give us different skirmish and campaign costs for some figures. Campaign is it's own beast.. but I never said I agreed with them that he wasn't broken in Campaign, I definitely wouldn't use him at his current cost.

I feel like a lot of people look at Arsenal and just think max damage at whatever the cost, how about instead of putting him in a position to be blown up with RRG you get a few more attacks out of him and draw your opponent in with BBG? The best part about Arsenal is it lets you decide how to play the character. I think throwing him out there with some focused HK's to ping from a distance would be a great way of harrassing your opponent, then when they close the distance or the time is right for you to get in there, switch it up to some reds to devastate a single target. He even has a built in 2 accuracy, you could ping a figure for 7 damage from a guaranteed 6 range, up to 12 range, without even using a command card. Throw in Assassinate and make it 10! Oh, and then do it twice in one turn and still get a few movement points. That seems pretty good to me.

12 hours ago, nickv2002 said:

But for campaign, if you're not happy with the threat cost to deploy IG-88, then it's your campaign: make some house-rules.

The two main issues here are:

1) Not everyone is comfortable with house rules

2) Some groups don’t have enough time to play test various house rules

But ultimately you’re right. Tournaments need that baseline cost.

That being said, FFG has done a great job listening to both campaign/skirmish feedback (making two different versions of deployment cards, balanced Unique figures in newer expansions) and this is the first time where the campaign game was flat out neglected.

I’d like to know why .

I’m also crossing my fingers that potential Han/Chewie fixes won't follow this "skirmish attachment only" format.

18 hours ago, subtrendy said:

Yeah, I think a new deployment card would have probably been better, since this doesn't fix campaign Iggy, and seems kind of patchy in skirmish. But I guess, at least with this way, players can still use the original build if they want. Works pretty well with IG-88, as well, having multiple possible configurations.

I guess it would've been weird, too, to have a Jawa pack give players an unrelated deployment card. An unrelated command card is a little less weird.

Just something I thew together for those who want to have all the information on one card. Though, I guess I should have put the skirmish symbol on it.

1 minute ago, Animewarsdude said:

Just something I thew together for those who want to have all the information on one card.

That looks great! Now that's a villain I'd spend some threat on!

48 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Just something I thew together for those who want to have all the information on one card. Though, I guess I should have put the skirmish symbol on it.

not to be a nitpicker, but it is "Arsenal" and "Assault"

Great looking card, do you have a template you use? or how did you match the Text?

The card should also include "No Skirmish Upgrade Attachment".

17 minutes ago, a1bert said:

The card should also include "No Skirmish Upgrade Attachment".

You all just want me to make another one.

10 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

I agree. I prefer a fix to the Wizards of the Coast way of keep launching ever lower quality miniatures with more abilities. The miniatures for this game have been great. Luke was very much an exception canonically, so I fully understood that. Han, Leia, Chewbacca, or even Vader made no leap of ability over the course of the Trilogy. I hate to say it, because I worry about what will come in the future, but Luke should be, and remain, the most powerful figure in the whole game, with Darth Vader on par.

yeah but Vader's cost needs to come way down in price or get something huge to make his points worth it

maybe giving Vader the ability to have 4 or 5 free movement points at the start of his activation, giving him reach and on top of that the ability to use force choke for free at the end of his activation

that MIGHT make his 18 points worth it

2 hours ago, leacher said:

not to be a nitpicker, but it is "Arsenal" and "Assault"

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

The card should also include "No Skirmish Upgrade Attachment".

Better?

buckero0, thanks and no I didn't use a template, I just found the cards online an altered them as needed to include the new text.

It's the Mercenary faction in Imperial Assault, but it's good enough.

Do you think Darth Vader will have a similar card?? If yes, when could be out?

I cant wait to use him in skirmish again! this 18 points would be awesome if worth

I love the idea of fixing the old underpowered uniques with upgrade cards. I couldn't love it more, if I had have that idea. Oh wait, I posted that idea Novemver 2015 ...

I don't see Vader as being underpowered, I know you didn't specifically mention him DerBaer but in reference to Naitsirk's post. If anything they might just have to nerf him slightly so they can lower his points to make him playable. Brutality with his die is just way to powerful of a combo. The problem with Vader is justifying one figure with that many points.. but it is also very thematic. He should be slow but brutal at close range. As we've seen from him in every single movie he is in. He isn't jumping around in the scene doing back flips. Maybe they could add deflect for him and that would help as he is closing the distance on troopers.

Vader is just too expensive for what he does. I'd play him for 14 Points or less.

Ripped from reddit but interesting idea, how about adding Deflect to Vader and something like Advance: At the start of your activation you may move up to X numbers of spaces towards the closest enemy figure.

Seems like it gets Vader very Rogue One thematic accurate in a hurry and all of a sudden makes his points seem not so bad? A way of thematically working in a potential double or free move, still putting him in range of brutality. And to help avoid exploitation of people just throwing a dumby throw away trooper in the wrong direction for Vader he can just to just move 1 or 2 spaces instead of the full amount so as not to get to far off track. or just take the free points as a way to leap frog to the next figure.

I'm sure if we see a Vader upgrade, it'll increase his speed somehow. I think that's where he's lacking. It's hard to get him anywhere.

I kind of like the idea of giving Vader maybe 2 or 3 automatic movement pts, but bringing his speed down to 3 as well. That way, he's still kind of a "slow" character, but we can see turns where he uses Force Choke, moves into position, and plays Brutality. Honestly, I think that would fix the character for me.

3 minutes ago, subtrendy said:

I kind of like the idea of giving Vader maybe 2 or 3 automatic movement pts, but bringing his speed down to 3 as well. That way, he's still kind of a "slow" character, but we can see turns where he uses Force Choke, moves into position, and plays Brutality. Honestly, I think that would fix the character for me.

Haha.

Skirmish Attachment: Sith March. Imperial Only. Force User Only.

"Reduce Speed by 1. Gain 1 movement point each time you defeat a figure."

43 minutes ago, RogueLieutenant said:

I'm sure if we see a Vader upgrade, it'll increase his speed somehow. I think that's where he's lacking. It's hard to get him anywhere.

... without building specifically towards it.

Deployment:
[16] General Weiss
[2] Imperial Officer
[5] Imperial Officer [Elite]
[8] Shyla Varad (you can yank people towards him)

Command:
[2] Close the Gap
[1] Field Tactician
[0] Fleet Footed
[0] Force Rush
[2] Force Surge
[1] Hit and Run
[1] Jump Jets
[3] Lord of the Sith
[3] New Orders
[1] Reposition
[1] Single Purpose
[0] To the Limit
[0] Urgency

Admittedly, many of these cards require units that are too squishy to be too close to the action to really use effectively, but if your officer is 2 squares behind Vader, then moves Vader up, most figures in good blaster range of your Officer now have other problems to think about.

Maybe if they made a new command card. "Father of Skywalker".

15 minutes ago, R5D8 said:

Haha.

Skirmish Attachment: Sith March. Imperial Only. Force User Only.

"Reduce Speed by 1. Gain 1 movement point each time you defeat a figure."

... without building specifically towards it.

Deployment:
[16] General Weiss
[2] Imperial Officer
[5] Imperial Officer [Elite]
[8] Shyla Varad (you can yank people towards him)

Command:
[2] Close the Gap
[1] Field Tactician
[0] Fleet Footed
[0] Force Rush
[2] Force Surge
[1] Hit and Run
[1] Jump Jets
[3] Lord of the Sith
[3] New Orders
[1] Reposition
[1] Single Purpose
[0] To the Limit
[0] Urgency

Admittedly, many of these cards require units that are too squishy to be too close to the action to really use effectively, but if your officer is 2 squares behind Vader, then moves Vader up, most figures in good blaster range of your Officer now have other problems to think about.

Maybe if they made a new command card. "Father of Skywalker".

i'm sorry but if you have to build your entire list to cater to a single figure, you've already lost the game. it's fine to have a centerpiece figure, but they have to be strong on their own to be viable, such as the new IG-88 fix, and while he looks strong, the question over time will be, did they make him strong enough to warrant his 12 points? perhaps? or perhaps the recover nerf was a little too hard? perhaps a recover 1 might have been the better answer?

Especially when it comes to a character with such a huge point sink such as Vader. Vader was only as effective as he was in the first wave because the officers could move him up the field like a bat out of hell and put him into position where he could make quick work of units. This forced your opponent to either throw everything they had at Vader or completely ignore him and try and win by objectives and killing everything else... which is exactly what a half your list point sink should be about. Then they nerfed the officers to grant only 2 movement points and Vader became pretty much non existent in lists to the point where he's now phased out as not only completely non competitive but garbage to use in casual games as well

28 minutes ago, R5D8 said:

Haha.

Skirmish Attachment: Sith March. Imperial Only. Force User Only.

"Reduce Speed by 1. Gain 1 movement point each time you defeat a figure."

Ooh, I really like that idea, of stringing together combos for defeating figures. I could even almost see something like "gain 1 movement point and perform an optional attack each time you defeat a figure." Vader'd probably have to be further nerfed, maybe even costing more than he already does, but that could make for some interesting games.

But anyway, back on topic.

24 minutes ago, executor said:

i ' m sorry but if you have to build your entire list to cater to a single figure, you've already lost the game. it's fine to have a centerpiece figure, but they have to be strong on their own to be viable, such as the new IG-88 fix, and while he looks strong, the question over time will be, did they make him strong enough to warrant his 12 points? perhaps? or perhaps the recover nerf was a little too hard? perhaps a recover 1 might have been the better answer?

Especially when it comes to a character with such a huge point sink such as Vader . Vader was only as effective as he was in the first wave because the officers could move him up the field like a bat out of hell and put him into position where he could make quick work of units. This forced your opponent to either throw everything they had at Vader or completely ignore him and try and win by objectives and killing everything else... which is exactly what a half your list point sink should be about. Then they nerfed the officers to grant only 2 movement points and Vader became pretty much non existent in lists to the point where he's now phased out as not only completely non competitive but garbage to use in casual games as well

OH YEAHHH?!? Built my whole list around that AT-ST and look how that turned out.

But yeah, 9/10, building around a signle figure is a bad idea, and something that shouldn't be necessary.

53 minutes ago, executor said:

i'm sorry but if you have to build your entire list to cater to a single figure, you've already lost the game.

Haha. I wasn't recommending constructing an entire list based around moving Vader around. I was saying that there were more options to do that now than there were previously. When I said "build towards it", I meant "include more than one option of moving him", but no, I wasn't trying to recommend using every single command card for movement.

I mean, Lure of the Dark Side has to be in there somewhere, right?

I merely wanted to show that there are enough options, especially through Command Cards, that opponents to Vader could no longer reliably hang out 5 spaces away and consider themselves safe. Force Surge, Force Rush, Deadly Accuracy, there have been a number of additions that COULD make Vader halfway respectable again.

I'm still not running him though.

How about this for another suggestion:

Reach of the Dark Side. Skirmish Attachment. Force User only. 1pt. Special Action: Perform a ranged attack using your melee attack pool. This attack gains +2 Accuracy.