So I'm doing a Verpine cowboy gunslinger, what's the best build for two pistols? I'm assuming gunslinger?

Yep, gunslinger is essential to be able to use two pistols together effectively. Without the talents in the spec two weapons combat is far clunkier. After that feel free to add more specs to flesh out the character.

However if you're willing to spend the xp early you can start in another career and then add gunslinger, if you prefer a different spec or certain signature abilities.

Also add paired attachment to the pistols.

Any cross or alternative starting spec suggestions?

Gadgeteer gives you Jury Rigged and Tinkerer, which is useful for tricking out your guns some more. It also gives Armor Master and Improved AM. If you want some more social skills that mix well with Gunslinger, give Marshal a look.

Hmmm what's the main characteristics used for marshal?

3 hours ago, TheShard said:

So I'm doing a Verpine cowboy gunslinger, what's the best build for two pistols? I'm assuming gunslinger?

For optimization and Talents specific to 2 pistol use, yes. To be more than capable an absolute must? No.

I'd pay attention to career as much as spec, maybe more so. If you're playing RAW and have additional spec costs to consider you'll be able to make a perfectly potent gunslinger with Solider, and have a lot more depth to expand both your lethality, versatility, and survivability imo in Soldier.

Note that Ace:Gunner (from AoR) gives you easy access to two ranks of True Aim, which will really help a Gunslinger.

IIRC, there’s a Hired Gun:Mercenary Soldier (EotE) which also gives you two ranks of True Aim, but they’re harder and more expensive to get to.

Another good combo would be with Soldier:Sharpshooter (AoR), with one rank of True Aim.

There’s other good talents to combine with, too. Like Deadly Accuracy, Natural Marksman, Point Blank, Sniper Shot, etc….

For gunslinger stats is

242223 or 252222 better?

Is the higher agility more advantageous? Or does the higher presence boost cool enough that it's more advantageous?

13 minutes ago, TheShard said:

For gunslinger stats is

242223 or 252222 better?

Is the higher agility more advantageous? Or does the higher presence boost cool enough that it's more advantageous?

In my experience, 333322 has been proven to be optimal for nigh everybody, in the long run (the one 432222 character has just stopped bitching about it after 700 earned XP); therefore I'd suggest 332233: Brawn for Encumbrance/Wounds, Agility obviously, Willpower for Vigilance/Strain, Presence, seemingly, we agree on.

A 252222 gunslinger is smelling one trick pony to me. You better buy a comfy nosepick for all the occasions with no need for firepower.

So you think that even 242223 is too specialized?

So you think that even 242223 is too specialized?

Our group has a Gunslinger/Marshall/Scoundrel and it works well (I allow one free GM Award Spec at character creation to give extra variation). Once you get the Unmatched Fortune Signature Ability added, it becomes very impressive.

His attributes after three dedication spends are: 342423 (I think he started 232323)

I preach 3s.

So if I do go Verpine any stat suggestions? Besides 3s? Or should i go klatoonian instead?

You should play what you wanna play. Racials fade quickly.

Yep, play pretty much what you like, but probably best to avoid anything that has a reduced Agility or Cunning (less than 2), as these are good attributes for the Smuggler Gunslinger.

I hate that people think 3/3/3/3 is optimal. It shows very little understanding of how SWRPG dice math works. 3/3/3/3 is only good in the very early game, like a one shot, or the very late game, once you have 4 or 5 ranks in most skills. In most other stages of the game having a lot of 3's only means you are trading a couple of dice upgrades for much more valuable additional green dice. That being said, I don't want to derail your thread with an optimal stat argument. My opinion is that getting one 5 or a couple 4's is going to serve you better in the long run than a bunch of 3's. Here is a good article on dice math if you are interested. http://maxmahem.net/wp/star-wars-edge-of-the-empire-die-probabilities/

As for species, while I think Verpine are super cool, for some reason FFG balanced them with about 5-10 less xp than they should have got. Compare them to a Chadra-Fan for example, who gets 3's in the same two stats but starts with 10 more xp. Don't get me wrong, microscopic seeing and speaking with radio waves is cool, it's just not 5-10xp difference cool. For that reason, I think a klatooinian is a better way to go. 100xp, 3 Agl and stacking combat skills is just way more xp efficient for a gunslinger type. Plus Bulldog Gunslinger is way cooler than Grasshopper Gunslinger, imo.

As for class, I personally like Soldier/Sharpshooter better. Both your career and spec have Ranged Light meaning you can start with 3 ranks which is both powerful and cost efficient. Also, SS have a better talent tree than Gunslingers. Deadly Accuracy is amazing, Targeted Blow and Quick Fix are very strong and you get access to True Aim at a cost that is actually worth the purchasing (vs just buying the skill rank). Don't get me wrong, Gunslinger has a lot of great "quality of life" talents you are going to want eventually, it just lacks the raw power of the sharpshooter. Mercenary Soldier is also very good as it offers a lot of flexibility to build a less linear character, but again, if you are looking to maximize your Ranged Light, you might wait to pick MS up until after SS or GS.

Again, this advice is from a purely optimization perspective. Story is always king and hyperfocused characters are seldom the most fun to play, so buyer beware.

24 minutes ago, SladeWeston said:

As for class, I personally like Soldier/Sharpshooter better. Both your career and spec have Ranged Light meaning you can start with 3 ranks which is both powerful and cost efficient.

RAW you're not allowed to raise one skill beyond 2 on character creation, unless you spend some XP.

1 hour ago, SladeWeston said:

I hate that people think 3/3/3/3 is optimal. It shows very little understanding of how SWRPG dice math works. 3/3/3/3 is only good in the very early game, like a one shot, or the very late game, once you have 4 or 5 ranks in most skills. In most other stages of the game having a lot of 3's only means you are trading a couple of dice upgrades for much more valuable additional green dice. That being said, I don't want to derail your thread with an optimal stat argument. My opinion is that getting one 5 or a couple 4's is going to serve you better in the long run than a bunch of 3's. Here is a good article on dice math if you are interested. http://maxmahem.net/wp/star-wars-edge-of-the-empire-die-probabilities/

As for species, while I think Verpine are super cool, for some reason FFG balanced them with about 5-10 less xp than they should have got. Compare them to a Chadra-Fan for example, who gets 3's in the same two stats but starts with 10 more xp. Don't get me wrong, microscopic seeing and speaking with radio waves is cool, it's just not 5-10xp difference cool. For that reason, I think a klatooinian is a better way to go. 100xp, 3 Agl and stacking combat skills is just way more xp efficient for a gunslinger type. Plus Bulldog Gunslinger is way cooler than Grasshopper Gunslinger, imo.

As for class, I personally like Soldier/Sharpshooter better. Both your career and spec have Ranged Light meaning you can start with 3 ranks which is both powerful and cost efficient. Also, SS have a better talent tree than Gunslingers. Deadly Accuracy is amazing, Targeted Blow and Quick Fix are very strong and you get access to True Aim at a cost that is actually worth the purchasing (vs just buying the skill rank). Don't get me wrong, Gunslinger has a lot of great "quality of life" talents you are going to want eventually, it just lacks the raw power of the sharpshooter. Mercenary Soldier is also very good as it offers a lot of flexibility to build a less linear character, but again, if you are looking to maximize your Ranged Light, you might wait to pick MS up until after SS or GS.

Again, this advice is from a purely optimization perspective. Story is always king and hyperfocused characters are seldom the most fun to play, so buyer beware.

That's exactly why I propagate 3s, because it's precluding optimisation; it's not about the maths. You'll just be capable in many fields and situations, not only incredibly good at one thing, and one thing only. Though it sounds contradictory: Character optimisation is seldom optimal, for what it's worth. And it's nearly never much fun.

2 minutes ago, Grimmerling said:

That's exactly why I propagate 3s, because it's precluding optimisation; it's not about the maths. You'll just be capable in many fields and situations, not only incredibly good at one thing, and one thing only. Though it sounds contradictory: Character optimisation is seldom optimal, for what it's worth. And it's nearly never much fun.

I'm not sure that a 3/3/3/3 makes the best generalist. I mean, strictly speaking, if you cared about every single skill, having a 3 in all your stats would be hard to beat. The issue is that many characteristics have few if any skills to care about. Sure, characteristics like Agility have lot of great skills, but others like Willpower only have one or two. When that is the case, it is almost always more cost efficient to just buy up skill ranks rather than waste your starting xp.

As for fun, it is my experience that 3/3/3/3 characters spend most of the time not being good at anything. Even after some skill ups, YYY is just a passable dice pool for most checks. By going with 3/3/3/3 all you are doing is giving up the chance of being good at a few things for being mediocre at most things. That doesn't scream fun in my book. The main reason for this is how statistically insignificant upgrading green dice to yellow dice is. The article I linked gives the exact numbers but you have to upgrade a dice ~3x to get the about the same benefit as adding a green dice.

2 hours ago, TheMOELANDER said:

RAW you're not allowed to raise one skill beyond 2 on character creation, unless you spend some XP.

Interesting, I looked up the rule and it quite clear agrees with you and unlike most FFG rules text, it's actually very clear about it. It's rare that OggDude's Another Character Generator leads me astray, thanks for the clarification.

1 hour ago, SladeWeston said:

I'm not sure that a 3/3/3/3 makes the best generalist. I mean, strictly speaking, if you cared about every single skill, having a 3 in all your stats would be hard to beat. The issue is that many characteristics have few if any skills to care about. Sure, characteristics like Agility have lot of great skills, but others like Willpower only have one or two. When that is the case, it is almost always more cost efficient to just buy up skill ranks rather than waste your starting xp.

As for fun, it is my experience that 3/3/3/3 characters spend most of the time not being good at anything. Even after some skill ups, YYY is just a passable dice pool for most checks. By going with 3/3/3/3 all you are doing is giving up the chance of being good at a few things for being mediocre at most things. That doesn't scream fun in my book. The main reason for this is how statistically insignificant upgrading green dice to yellow dice is. The article I linked gives the exact numbers but you have to upgrade a dice ~3x to get the about the same benefit as adding a green dice.

Interesting, I looked up the rule and it quite clear agrees with you and unlike most FFG rules text, it's actually very clear about it. It's rare that OggDude's Another Character Generator leads me astray, thanks for the clarification.

Oggdude does not have a way to differentiate a starting character from a character with experience. Trying to make it do this was just to much effort for very little reward. Correllian humans can start with a 3 in piloting though.

The thing I will observe is that I’ve had as much fun playing characters forced to do things outside of areas where they are strong, if not more so. Sure, everyone wants to be great at some things, and they should be given the opportunity to shine in those things on a sufficiently frequent basis.

But it’s also fun to see people pushed out of their comfort zone, and see what kind of hilarity ensues — failure on a roll can be as entertaining (if not more so) than success, at least if you narrate the result well.

So, I would encourage you to consider all the advice given, but then decide what concept you like best and go with that. And if you want to do 2/5/2/2/2/2 and be the totally awesome Gunslinger that is nearly useless at everything else, then you should do that!

Not all species can do this, but a spread of 4,3,3,2,2,1 (Edit: not always in that order obviously!) is really cool. it gives you a nice speciality, a couple of competent areas, some average areas and finally a weakness that can really play into the way you role play the character. As brad said sometimes playing to your failures is just as fun as you success.

8 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Not all species can do this, but a spread of 4,3,3,2,2,1 (Edit: not always in that order obviously!) is really cool. it gives you a nice speciality, a couple of competent areas, some average areas and finally a weakness that can really play into the way you role play the character. As brad said sometimes playing to your failures is just as fun as you success.

I like this idea with a 1 Attribute, though most players would avoid it. A gunslinger with a 1 in Willpower could be interesting...he can just never resist temptation or pushing it that bit too far. Of course, the grizzled "hates everybody" moody gunslinger that people try to avoid (Presence of 1) is another possibility...he negotiates with blaster bolts.