Armada Commanders, Beauty in Asymmetry
This. Was. Fantastic.
I laughed, I cried, I learned.
Seriously though, excellent. I've been noticing the parallels here and there in the mechanics, and it's fun to see a more detailed breakdown.
EDIT: Ships are where I see the most "obvious" parallels, though I think they're far more spread out over the various waves.
Edited by Greatfrito5 hours ago, Madaghmire said:... when Luke rolled the most natural 20 of all timeagainst the Death Star.
"Luke, you've switched off your dice roll modifiers. What's wrong?"
"Nothing. I'm all right."
Brilliant summaries. Please do more!
Great read, thanks for writing it up. A great contribution.
Thanks for the kind words guys, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Definetely made me feel awesome to see all these likes when I woke up.
sbloom I'm definitely thinking I'll do some more mining along this vein, although I'm not sure yet if I want to take this same lens to ships/squadrons or look more closely at how different admirals and the fleets they tend to engender work against each other. If anyone has any thoughts on either subject I'm all ears.
frito, I agree. It definetely comes across clearly with the ships, and at the same time the different ways you can field those ships actually creates a great deal more nuance when drawing comparisons. Admirals, after all, have their whole story (mechanics wise) written on an itty bitty card. Thats gonna be a much tougher article, but I'm sort of hoping it may lead to more productive insights. This was a fun write for me, and I flatter myself when I say I think its a fun read, but it didn't yield anything thats going to help anyone on the table.
Anyone have any thoughts on possible mirrors for some of those square pegs? Also curious if anyone feels like maybe I missed a pairing or stretched too far on one or another?
edit: also I have no idea what happened format wise. At least on my phone there are all these wierd breaks for like no reason. Sorry for that. It looked fine on the computer.
Edited by Madaghmiregreat write up! Loved the category names!
14 hours ago, Madaghmire said:Jun Sato is the commander in Rebels when the show wants to pretend Hera isn’t theonly person allowed to make decisions.
This is amazingly accurate.
Good stuff!
Regarding that last little bit on Sato, though, what's this about a rewording? I missed that somewhere. Anyone got a link?
I don't have a link Crit, but see, what had happened was that when Sato was initially previewed, he didn't have the words "before rolling your attack pool". As such, due to the timing of modify dice effects, it was interpreted (imo correctly since they changed the words) that you could roll your initial pool, and replace your least favorable results with the Sato dice.
For example, AFMK2 rolls up and shoots three reds, landing double hit, blank, blank. Sato effect replaces the two blanks with blacks, yada yada.
With the new wording, you make the decision to replace before rolling. Its still a solid effect, but it doesn't moonlight as a reroll of sorts.
5 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:For example, AFMK2 rolls up and shoots three reds, landing double hit, blank, blank. Sato effect replaces the two blanks with blacks, yada yada.
But you yada yada'd over the best part!

vs:
------
And for those with Images Disabled:
"While a friendly ship
is attacking a ship at
distance 1 of at least 1
friendly squadron, the
attacker may replace up
to 2 dince in its attack pool
with an qual number of
dice of any color."
vs
"While a friendly ship
is attacking a ship at
distance 1 of a friendly
squadron, before rolling
attack dice, the attacker
may replace up to 2 dice
in its attack pool with an
equal number of dice of
any color or colors."
Great post Mad. I think FFG has done remarkably well by giving the Rebel/Empire offsetting commanders without making them bland.
Balance by homogeny makes for a boring game. Asymetrical balance is incredibly difficult, but FFG seems to be doing pretty admirably.
The only way this post could have been more epic would be if it were yellow and slowly receding into a starry background, with John Williams blaring at seismic volume.
Some thoughts on other alternate comparisons:
Madine and Jerjerrod: I know J's "cost" is different, but it really feels like both add the same thing (additional maneuverability) to their fleets. I know Ozzel does his thing for the same in-game "cost" as Madine, but I suspect we'll see a Rebel commander that will affect speed in some similar way (but with a cost other than Nav actions). Eventually.
Konstantine and Sato: I suspect we'll see closer counterparts to these eventually, but for now I think they parallel each other in much the same way that the ships they come with do. Both focus on synergizing elements of your fleet together, but while Konstantine (and the Interdictor) focus on harming your enemies, Sato (and the Pelta) focus on helping your friends. The way they do it matches the "themes" of their factions, too: Konstantine requires you to have big ships working together, whereas Sato requires you to have your ships and squadrons working together. Sato is more clearly a direct mechanical buff when his conditions are met, but I think Konstantine's goal is to get a similar (perhaps better) effect by getting your opponent right where you want them.
I dunno. Interesting all around.
1 minute ago, Greatfrito said:Some thoughts on other alternate comparisons:
Madine and Jerjerrod: I know J's "cost" is different, but it really feels like both add the same thing (additional maneuverability) to their fleets. I know Ozzel does his thing for the same in-game "cost" as Madine, but I suspect we'll see a Rebel commander that will affect speed in some similar way (but with a cost other than Nav actions). Eventually.
Konstantine and Sato: I suspect we'll see closer counterparts to these eventually, but for now I think they parallel each other in much the same way that the ships they come with do. Both focus on synergizing elements of your fleet together, but while Konstantine (and the Interdictor) focus on harming your enemies, Sato (and the Pelta) focus on helping your friends. The way they do it matches the "themes" of their factions, too: Konstantine requires you to have big ships working together, whereas Sato requires you to have your ships and squadrons working together. Sato is more clearly a direct mechanical buff when his conditions are met, but I think Konstantine's goal is to get a similar (perhaps better) effect by getting your opponent right where you want them.
I dunno. Interesting all around.
Yeah I think I may have just whiffed on Sato/Konstantine. The more I think about it, the more they make sense as a pairing. The even wind up staring across the table, as it were, in rebels! The ships they come with are definetely a mirror of each other as well. Their abilities are very different, but their triggers actually mirror in that they require getting your unit(s) X into Y proximity of their unit(s) Z. Both are sort of offensive abilities as both adversely effect your opponents fleet. Going forward I'm just gonna call them a pair. Later tonight I'll probably edit this to reflect the pairing, but its too irritiating to do on a phone. Good catch Frito.
As to Madine/Ozzel/Jerry, I can definetely see the argument (heck I made it in the OP) but I still think Madine and Ozzel mirror each other more closely then Jerry/Madine. Definetely willing to concede though that maybe these guys are just swingers and its a three way.
For me. Screed and Sato. Dodonna and konstantine.
Dodonna is about control. Konstantine is control.
Screed is the damage you need when you need it. Sato is the colour of dice you need when you need it.
Rieekan i match with motti. Keeping stuff alive long after its dead.
Mothma and Tagge. More effective tokens.
Which leaves cracken and jerrod. Passive navigation boosts.
8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:For me. Screed and Sato. Dodonna and konstantine.
Dodonna is about control. Konstantine is control.
Screed is the damage you need when you need it. Sato is the colour of dice you need when you need it.
Rieekan i match with motti. Keeping stuff alive long after its dead.
Mothma and Tagge. More effective tokens.
Which leaves cracken and jerrod. Passive navigation boosts.
God I love this game. All of these are valid IMO. I stand by my own pairings, but I can see each of these.
Thanks for the Sato clarification/explanation, y'all.
And yeah, there are definitely different ways you could pair people up. I think Madaghmire was more concerned with pairings as they were released (wave one, wave two, etc), but for some of us that came into the game later, our knee-jerk groupings might be a little different in some instances (I also tend to mentally lump together Rieekan and Motti as the defensive options, for instance), while still spot-on in other instances (like Bel-Iblis and Tarkin being natural foils for one another).