Armada Commanders, Beauty in Asymmetry

By Madaghmire, in Star Wars: Armada

This is simply an exploration into a thought I had. Largely I’m looking at how similar options are
presented to both sides through the commanders (and why they aren’t when they aren’t) and how each
commander’s ability fits their lore. I’m not sure if there was ever much of a point beyond the exercise.
I’m going to say it was to “engender positive discussion”. Sure. Why not?
Crit dat Sh*t; (Wave 1)
Imps- Screed
Rebels- Dodonna
Both play around with critical effects. Dodonna plays with the default critical effect by allowing you pick
the most frustrating and rage inducing option of 4 contenders, and Screed allows you to more or less
guarantee that your special critical effect upgrades come to play. They also both make sense from a
theme standpoint, as Jan was the General at Yavin when Luke rolled the most natural 20 of all time
against the Death Star. It’s a bonus that he has such gameplay synergy with the Luke Skywalker
squadron stand. Screed, I have it on good authority, got his eye implant after a Selonian rebel came up
and hit/crit him in the face with his giant black dice and the Admiral was never able to forget the image.
Token Majority (Wave 1)
Imps- Grand Moff Tarkin
Rebels- Garm Bel Iblis
Token generators. Garm loads you up on turn one and again in turn 5 with all the delicious command
tokens your ship can handle (unless you are the perennially unsatisfied Pheonix Home), whereas Tarkin
gives you the steady influx of one per turn. Both have their issues, Bel Iblis is less effective with smaller
ships that don’t benefit as much from his ability since they can’t carry as many tokens, and Tarkin is
expensive. Prohibitively so. Another great job of fitting ability to characters though. Tarkin’s tremendous
administration and foresight are recreated in game by unmatched command flexibility, and his patrician
attitude and love of big shiny things that don’t work as well as they should come to life in his crazy price
tag. Bel Iblis, as of yet not to be seen in the new cannon was in the Legends universe a founder of the
rebellion (turn one tokens) until he took his toys and went home when he didn’t get his way and finally
came back when it really mattered and brought his huge dreadnaughts to the aid of the New Republic in
the Thrawn trilogy.
Protectobots, form Defensor! (Wave 1)
Imps- Admiral Motti
Rebels- Mon Mothma
The final pairing from wave one both increase the survivability of your fleet. Motti does it in the most
passive, boring way possible with a static increase to your hull values across the board, scaling based on
the size of your technological terrors. Which is thematic cuz you know he likes the big shinies. This also
fits in with the general theme of the war, in that the Empire knows the Rebels know where they are, and
they know the Rebels will attack them. They just figure they are too big to fail. Mon Mothma works by
increasing the efficacy of your evade tokens, which aside from being very strong against fighters and
black dice crit effects is wonderfully thematic because for the undisputed leader of the rebellion she
managed to evade the camera until she shows up right before the Battle of Endor in Jedi. Also the
Empire couldn’t find her either, I guess, but I mean the first time I watched those films I’m like “ok now
who is this lady and where was she at Yavin and Hoth?”
I wanna kill, I wanna kill, I wanna kill… (wave 2)
Imps- Darth Vader
Rebels- Admiral Ackbar
Back on the offensive, the first pairing of wave 2 is all about increasing your offensive capabilities.
Ackbar does it by increasing your side arcs armaments by 2 red dice if you forego shooting from your
bow or out your aft. Thematic, of course, as it is to simulate and even enable the Ackbar Slash from the
battle of Endor. Vader of course, uses the force to re-roll whatever dice you have that have failed him at
the cost of spending a defense token. Which is like force choking your useless subordinates to inspire
better results. Also of note is that while both of these fellows can work with just about anything in their
respective fleet pool, they both really want red dice ships for max potential. Not need mind you, you can
run Ginkapo’s Ackbar Star Destroyer MC30T, you can use Vader as a sub for ordinance experts if you are
just tossing a ton of black dice brawlers out there. But dominating at distance is where both of these
admiral’s shine.
INTERLUDE- It is at this point that things start to get a little trickier. While there are still some nicely
mirrored pairings to be made, there are also some commanders which simply don’t (as of yet) appear to
have a looking glass version on the opposite sideline. The remaining Admirals of wave 2 (Rieekan and
Ozzel) can be paired, sure, if you want to really stretch it. I came up with a couple different ways. But
honestly, I think Ozzel pairs better with Madine, and in the zombie lord’s case, the cheese stands alone.
Navigating Life’s Rough Patches (Waves 2 and 4)
Imps- Admiral “Pulls out too Soon” Ozzel
Rebels- General Crix Madine
Both of these guys work on amping up your navigate command. Ozzel does it by giving you the ability to
change your speed by an additional 1. Madine goes the other route, allowing you to add an extra yaw,
and with the added bonus of acting as nav teams for your whole fleet when it comes to nav tokens. He’s
also 10 more points, although it can be argued he works for a wider array of ships in his fleet, whereas
Ozzel is somewhat less attractive in fleets that want to run a Victory or Interdictor. Thematically, we all
remember Ozzel getting choked out by Vader for coming out of Hyperspace too close to Hoth in Empire,
and so it follows nicely that his ability should involve manipulating your speed dial. As for Madine, he
was in charge of covert ops for the Rebel Alliance, and planned the assault on the shield generator on
Endor. He’s all about putting people exactly where they need to be, and with him in charge of your fleet,
so are you. He’s also one of the best Admiral/Ship packaging combinations that they’ve come up with
besides the obvious Vader/ISD, because the Liberty LOVES him.
I think Madine fits best here, but if I just left it at that I think I would be doing a disservice to my little
project here. There are two other commanders that Madine sort of mirrors, and while I could wait for
their blurbs, I feel it’s best to address these things as they come up. First, Madine dropped in the same
wave as Konstantine, and there is a definite point to be made that they can also mirror each other.
Certainly they appear to kind of cancel each other out, Madine providing movement options and Special
K taking them away, while the constant spam of nav from Madine seems to limit the effectiveness of
Konstantine’s control effects. In the end though, this article is more about the way the different admirals
of each side create options for the player and the way that is mirrored across faction lines, not so much
about they work against each other. Which would also make a fun article I may write later. Jerjerrod
may also pop into people’s minds as he also increases yaw, but I’ll discuss him in detail later. Suffice to
say the fact that he doesn’t operate off of a command was a disqualifying factor in his consideration
here.
Protectobots, Form Defensor! Jelly of Your Officers Edition (Wave 3)
Imps- General Tagge
Rebels- General Cracken
These fellows both came in on their little flotillas, and both are defensive options for your fleet.
Moreover, they are defensive options which encourage offensive gameplay. What is also fun is they
both take abilities that the other side has in a unique officer, extrapolating them over the entire fleet.
Tagge takes a page from Walex Blissex, losing the discard downside but allowing all ships in the fleet to
recover a discarded defense token on turns 3 and 5. Bring back that key brace or scatter token, or
maybe an evade that was discarded by a TRquiettens (TRKitty? Can we make that a thing guys?
TRKitty?). In order to bring that ability to play on turn three, you need to push forward and start taking
fire on turn 2, which as I said encourages aggressive, offensive play. As for theme, well this is gonna be a
stretch. Tagge was a bit player in the films, though his character has been expounded upon in the recent
Darth Vader comics (which are very solid and if you like comic books and Darth Vader…or just can tick
one of those boxes I would recommend the read). He’s credited with having a great tactical mind, being
elevated to the rank of Grand General (todo es Grande en el imperio galactico). But I think it comes from
the following dialogue out of New Hope;
Tagge: If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this battlestation it is possible-
however unlikely-that they might find a weakness, and exploit it.
Vader: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands. (Much like that brace token amirite?)
Additionally, (although not from New Hope);
“Tagge always argued against the arrogance of the Death Star as a sole weapon” -Darth Sidious
Apparently Tagge felt they should have scrapped the Death Star and just built more SSD’s. Really loved
redundancy, that guy. So I guess his ability makes sense thematically, but damned if I didn’t have to dig
to figure out why.
As for Cracken, he takes your small and medium ships moving at least speed three and makes any shot
against them obstructed, which is essentially Admiral Montferrat’s text but restricted to small and
medium bases. Forcing you to run at high speed doesn’t necessarily force aggressive play, but it is
certainly conducive to it. Cracken was the supreme commander of Rebel intelligence, which explains his
thematic focus on obfuscation. Also, he was apparently one of the gunners in the Millenium Falcon
during the battle of Endor along with Lt. Blount of Z95 Headhunter fame. Who knew? Wookiepedia,
that’s who.
Square Pegs-
Imps- Admiral Konstantine, Moff Jerjerrod
Rebels- General Rieekan, Commander Sato
These guys have pretty unique effects that brings unique elements to their faction’s toolkits the other
side simply doesn’t have. I think this is where it gets interesting. Just because they don’t currently have a
mirror, does that mean that they never will? Looking over the above pairings, it certainly appears as
though FFG more or less mirrors admirals that will see a mirror in the same wave, or in the case of
Ozzel/Madine a wave (because wave 3 and 4 dropped simultaneously I count them as one) later. Plus
one could still argue that I should have paired Konstantine/Madine. Also, I cannot believe that you are
still reading this. I’m on page 4 of the word document I’m drafting this on, in the forums this must be the
walliest wall of text ever. It’s like the Great Wall of Text. You can see it from space. Kudos to you! You
must be on like Adderall or something.
Anyway, these guys may or may not ever see a mirror, although I think it would be interesting to see
some come along. I think some of the most interesting discussion that I hope stems from this would be
crafting the mirrors for some of these outliers. It’s also interesting to note that with the exception of
Rieekan, these are more recent releases, which may point to a shift in design philosophy.
Admiral Konstantine- So if you are running some real Imperial ships, not the local bulk cruisers mind
you, the big Corellian ships, then this guy lets you start playing with your opponents speed dials. Nice
because it can help keep those nimble little ships from flying past a juicy arc, or make them fly past their
optimal attack vector, as it’s the only effect currently in the game that lets you speed your opponent up.
Combined with other speed effects, flying against Special K can be like flying through molasses.
Thematically I guess it makes sense? He spends a lot of time in Rebels trying to catch the protagonists of
the show, and at one point he catches Sato’s CR90 in a tractor beam. Good enough, right?
As to possible mirrors, to some degree it already exists. It just doesn’t exist as an Admiral. The Pelta’s
“Entrapment Formation” Fleet Command strikes me as a rebel mirror in the toolkit, to a degree. The
trigger is easier to manipulate on the rebel side, requiring simply a command token to enable versus
putting two medium+ bases at long range of a target.
Moff Jerjerrod- How much did VSD’s need this guy? Jerry is the lifetap’ing warlock of Armada, letting
you take a point of damage in exchange for phenomenal cosmic maneuverability, in the form of Yaw 2 at
joint one of your current speed. Huge for VSD’s which can now, with a nav command, make a full 90
degree turn at speed 2. This makes it considerably easier to keep the battle in front of you when flying
these beautiful stat bricks. Jerry has uses with other ships as well, especially the Arkittens. What makes
him special though, is that you can trigger his ability without using a command. And that’s why he’s
alone down here and snuggling up next to Madine and Admiral Carridine. (Ozzel…cuz he choked out?
Too soon?) Thematically appropriate because he had to “redouble” the efforts of the Death Star Two’s
construction crews.
As for possible mirrors, I’m not sure this fellow will ever get one. I strongly believe he was part of the
solution with regards to bringing VSD based fleets back into viability, and it just happened he also
worked great with the Arq. Perhaps instead of maneuverability, a rebel mirror could allow a ship to take
damage in exchange for dial manipulation or squadron pushing power.
General Rieekan- Oh my god this guy. This freaking space necromancer guy! Ships and unique
squadrons live until the end of the status phase. Get that extra oomph. Thematically appropriate since
the Empire was sooooo sure they had the Rebellion at Hoth, they were gonna wipe them off the face of
the galaxy, and then…NOPE. They just keep on living. Just like Wedge Antilles taking a moustache ride in
a Rieekan fleet.
This guy is never getting a true mirror, I don’t think. I’m not even sure what it would look like. But I think
he was there as a balance choice. Waves 1 and 2 were developed side by side and FFG had to know the
issues that Demolisher presented at that point in the game’s lifespan. I think Rieekan was a way for the
rebels to handle Demo initiative builds, as well as a way to increase the efficacy of Rebel Ace lists, which
is very thematically appropriate because I’m pretty sure the Rebellion was won on the backs of Rebel
Ace pilots, who keep flying into narrow passages and blowing up giant superweapons. Also that poor
kamikaze A-Wing. He died the way I hope I never will, in a great big ball of fire helping other people out.
I intend to die in my sleep so I can take the passengers in my car with me. No one should die alone.
Commander Sato- Jun Sato is the commander in Rebels when the show wants to pretend Hera isn’t the
only person allowed to make decisions. In the game, he allows you to throw fighters at enemy ships in
order to fire better dice from your ships. In the show, he throws fighters at enemy ships so he can watch
them die horrifically while he runs away to safety. I freaking love this guy! He just plain gets it. Jury is out
on just how good he actually is in the game, especially after the card was reworded so as not to be just
stupid good, but early returns are pretty positive though he takes some special care and feeding in the
list building process.
No mirror yet, but I have no doubt we’ll see something. Both with him and Rieekan there’s a focus on
squadron play, and I think that makes a tremendous amount of sense given how squadron reliant the
Rebellion was. The mirror for the empire may help imperial squadrons out, or may emphasize ship/big
ship play. Heck, in that light maybe Special K is Sato’s mirror and I just whiffed on it.
Conclusions- I think it’s interesting how the early Admirals are such clear mirrors of each other, but as
the game matures the admirals begin slotting more into the different flavors and filling the different
holes of their factions. I think its impressive that this happens while at the same time both sides still
have such different flavors that remain consistent within themselves. For example, Screed and Vader are
both offensive minded Admirals, but do so through dice manipulation, which (especially at the time of
release and still so far as the admirals are concerned) is something you see a lot of in Imperial fleets.
Now we see more dice manipulation effects across the board, but still there are no rebel admirals that
manipulate rolled dice. The rebel offensive admirals that deal with dice deal with adding new ones, or
replacing the dice you have with bigger, blacker dice.
I haven’t taken the time to look at squadrons and ships in this light yet, but a cursory evaluation in my
head shows they manage to do similar things in both of those fields as well. Maybe I’ll write that up if
people like the idea.
Tl;dr- Nope. Scroll back up and read it. I’ll wait.

This. Was. Fantastic.

I laughed, I cried, I learned.

Seriously though, excellent. I've been noticing the parallels here and there in the mechanics, and it's fun to see a more detailed breakdown.

EDIT: Ships are where I see the most "obvious" parallels, though I think they're far more spread out over the various waves.

Edited by Greatfrito
5 hours ago, Madaghmire said:
... when Luke rolled the most natural 20 of all time
against the Death Star.

"Luke, you've switched off your dice roll modifiers. What's wrong?"

"Nothing. I'm all right."

Brilliant summaries. Please do more!

Great read, thanks for writing it up. A great contribution.

Thanks for the kind words guys, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Definetely made me feel awesome to see all these likes when I woke up.

sbloom I'm definitely thinking I'll do some more mining along this vein, although I'm not sure yet if I want to take this same lens to ships/squadrons or look more closely at how different admirals and the fleets they tend to engender work against each other. If anyone has any thoughts on either subject I'm all ears.

frito, I agree. It definetely comes across clearly with the ships, and at the same time the different ways you can field those ships actually creates a great deal more nuance when drawing comparisons. Admirals, after all, have their whole story (mechanics wise) written on an itty bitty card. Thats gonna be a much tougher article, but I'm sort of hoping it may lead to more productive insights. This was a fun write for me, and I flatter myself when I say I think its a fun read, but it didn't yield anything thats going to help anyone on the table.

Anyone have any thoughts on possible mirrors for some of those square pegs? Also curious if anyone feels like maybe I missed a pairing or stretched too far on one or another?

edit: also I have no idea what happened format wise. At least on my phone there are all these wierd breaks for like no reason. Sorry for that. It looked fine on the computer.

Edited by Madaghmire

great write up! Loved the category names!

14 hours ago, Madaghmire said:
Jun Sato is the commander in Rebels when the show wants to pretend Hera isn’t the
only person allowed to make decisions.

This is amazingly accurate.

Good stuff!

Regarding that last little bit on Sato, though, what's this about a rewording? I missed that somewhere. Anyone got a link?

I don't have a link Crit, but see, what had happened was that when Sato was initially previewed, he didn't have the words "before rolling your attack pool". As such, due to the timing of modify dice effects, it was interpreted (imo correctly since they changed the words) that you could roll your initial pool, and replace your least favorable results with the Sato dice.

For example, AFMK2 rolls up and shoots three reds, landing double hit, blank, blank. Sato effect replaces the two blanks with blacks, yada yada.

With the new wording, you make the decision to replace before rolling. Its still a solid effect, but it doesn't moonlight as a reroll of sorts.

5 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

For example, AFMK2 rolls up and shoots three reds, landing double hit, blank, blank. Sato effect replaces the two blanks with blacks, yada yada.

But you yada yada'd over the best part!

swm21_spread.png


vs:


Swm21-commander-sato.png

------

And for those with Images Disabled:

"While a friendly ship
is attacking a ship at
distance 1 of at least 1
friendly squadron, the
attacker may replace up
to 2 dince in its attack pool
with an qual number of
dice of any color."


vs

"While a friendly ship
is attacking a ship at
distance 1 of a friendly
squadron, before rolling
attack dice
, the attacker
may replace up to 2 dice
in its attack pool with an
equal number of dice of
any color or colors."

Edited by Drasnighta

Great post Mad. I think FFG has done remarkably well by giving the Rebel/Empire offsetting commanders without making them bland.

Balance by homogeny makes for a boring game. Asymetrical balance is incredibly difficult, but FFG seems to be doing pretty admirably.

The only way this post could have been more epic would be if it were yellow and slowly receding into a starry background, with John Williams blaring at seismic volume.

Some thoughts on other alternate comparisons:

Madine and Jerjerrod: I know J's "cost" is different, but it really feels like both add the same thing (additional maneuverability) to their fleets. I know Ozzel does his thing for the same in-game "cost" as Madine, but I suspect we'll see a Rebel commander that will affect speed in some similar way (but with a cost other than Nav actions). Eventually.

Konstantine and Sato: I suspect we'll see closer counterparts to these eventually, but for now I think they parallel each other in much the same way that the ships they come with do. Both focus on synergizing elements of your fleet together, but while Konstantine (and the Interdictor) focus on harming your enemies, Sato (and the Pelta) focus on helping your friends. The way they do it matches the "themes" of their factions, too: Konstantine requires you to have big ships working together, whereas Sato requires you to have your ships and squadrons working together. Sato is more clearly a direct mechanical buff when his conditions are met, but I think Konstantine's goal is to get a similar (perhaps better) effect by getting your opponent right where you want them.

I dunno. Interesting all around.

1 minute ago, Greatfrito said:

Some thoughts on other alternate comparisons:

Madine and Jerjerrod: I know J's "cost" is different, but it really feels like both add the same thing (additional maneuverability) to their fleets. I know Ozzel does his thing for the same in-game "cost" as Madine, but I suspect we'll see a Rebel commander that will affect speed in some similar way (but with a cost other than Nav actions). Eventually.

Konstantine and Sato: I suspect we'll see closer counterparts to these eventually, but for now I think they parallel each other in much the same way that the ships they come with do. Both focus on synergizing elements of your fleet together, but while Konstantine (and the Interdictor) focus on harming your enemies, Sato (and the Pelta) focus on helping your friends. The way they do it matches the "themes" of their factions, too: Konstantine requires you to have big ships working together, whereas Sato requires you to have your ships and squadrons working together. Sato is more clearly a direct mechanical buff when his conditions are met, but I think Konstantine's goal is to get a similar (perhaps better) effect by getting your opponent right where you want them.

I dunno. Interesting all around.

Yeah I think I may have just whiffed on Sato/Konstantine. The more I think about it, the more they make sense as a pairing. The even wind up staring across the table, as it were, in rebels! The ships they come with are definetely a mirror of each other as well. Their abilities are very different, but their triggers actually mirror in that they require getting your unit(s) X into Y proximity of their unit(s) Z. Both are sort of offensive abilities as both adversely effect your opponents fleet. Going forward I'm just gonna call them a pair. Later tonight I'll probably edit this to reflect the pairing, but its too irritiating to do on a phone. Good catch Frito.

As to Madine/Ozzel/Jerry, I can definetely see the argument (heck I made it in the OP) but I still think Madine and Ozzel mirror each other more closely then Jerry/Madine. Definetely willing to concede though that maybe these guys are just swingers and its a three way.

For me. Screed and Sato. Dodonna and konstantine.

Dodonna is about control. Konstantine is control.

Screed is the damage you need when you need it. Sato is the colour of dice you need when you need it.

Rieekan i match with motti. Keeping stuff alive long after its dead.

Mothma and Tagge. More effective tokens.

Which leaves cracken and jerrod. Passive navigation boosts.

8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

For me. Screed and Sato. Dodonna and konstantine.

Dodonna is about control. Konstantine is control.

Screed is the damage you need when you need it. Sato is the colour of dice you need when you need it.

Rieekan i match with motti. Keeping stuff alive long after its dead.

Mothma and Tagge. More effective tokens.

Which leaves cracken and jerrod. Passive navigation boosts.

God I love this game. All of these are valid IMO. I stand by my own pairings, but I can see each of these.

Thanks for the Sato clarification/explanation, y'all.

And yeah, there are definitely different ways you could pair people up. I think Madaghmire was more concerned with pairings as they were released (wave one, wave two, etc), but for some of us that came into the game later, our knee-jerk groupings might be a little different in some instances (I also tend to mentally lump together Rieekan and Motti as the defensive options, for instance), while still spot-on in other instances (like Bel-Iblis and Tarkin being natural foils for one another).