Shuttle Tydirium Episode 38: What a CROC!

Listen to the Episode HERE!

Welcome aboard the Shuttle Tydirium Podcast for episode 38! It's the semi-lost episode! After an involuntary week-long hiatus, we're back with coverage of the C-ROC preview. Scum and Villainy finally has an epic ship coming! Is it any good? Are we qualified to say whether it's any good? Stay tuned and find out!

Captain's Question: 8:10

C-ROC news: 29:35

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Hey guys! After a short delay, we are back! Ewoks "corrupted" our last recording and we had to do it again. Also, changed our recording day and Phil actually got it out on our standard Tuesday! No promises for the future, though.

Last note, we ran out of time to discuss our C-ROC builds that we would do. Hope to get them in next week's episode.

Enjoy!

Expect that future episodes will come out on Fridays or maybe saturdays. Still figuring that one out.

I think a big reason why huge ships aren't allowed in standard play is less about balance, and more about requiring so many special rules. Epic rules aren't in the standard rule book, so I imagine that's a big part of the reason why they don't allow them in standard play.

Cool Cool

Heard it through this morning. I agree with the other comments the reason epic ships are no go in standard play is the extra rule sets needed more so than anything else.

Of course, casual games can set any rules you like so go for it.

I don't recall hearing any mention of the Jabba crew card. Is that just because it's ability is all speculation at this point?

31 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I don't recall hearing any mention of the Jabba crew card. Is that just because it's ability is all speculation at this point?

Yes, it's just speculation at this point. I kind of hate the whole guessing at times. I'm content to just wait to see what it is.

As it was, we ran out of time to share our lists for the C-ROC. I really wanted to do that. I like the idea of building different ones.

I also think it's a scale thing, both for fluff and literally there isn't enough play space for the scale of the ship. Your standard play space is smaller, huge ships would cover a lot of that distance before probably ending up stuff off the board, all the while they provide obstructions for fire and will just erase smaller ships they bump so it's just not arranged well. FFG could probably make a hybrid format which uses the larger space and smaller list size but epic ships just have a bit of a bull in the china shop going on - it might not necessarily make for fun play if you say, play a two or three ship list and your opponent's plan is just jam to limit the enemy movement and then smash into them with the huge before it runs off the board, as traditional movement limitation (stress/ion) doesn't affect huge ships. Especially in the smaller play space.

EDIT: I'd also like to say, I'm on a stance of disagreeing with jbot about 0-point titles, on a couple of different reasons. Now obviously the opportunity cost only comes in at the start of list building, if as in the example, you already made a 100 point list, or a list where otherwise you can't pay for your ideal, then there's no opportunity you're losing to include a 0 point, but 0 points are generally in pretty competitive slots, and are very niche. Like Trick Shot. You have no reason not to take trickshot if you have no EPT, but also it does nothing most of the time. Visago works once, and since his ability is limited by the point cost of other cards, I think it's important he doesn't overburden your list. He has to be 0 points to be worth utilizing.

However, specifically about titles I have two counterpoints. One, there is nothing wrong with "well they just need more space for rules". I know Tydirium and "fly casual" tend to be on that "less rules" trend but the game would stagnate without new design space options. It'd die and shrivel up, and everybody would be stuck playing the same iteration over and over again. Some people might find that okay but over all that's bad for game health. I accept some new mechanics or options can be too complex or too wordy, and that's not always great but intrinsically more rules =/= bad. Titles are a ship specific upgrade at the moment so it's an ideal place to exercise that design space. But I also say it is perfectly legit to "pre-fix" a ship. So you have an ARC or an SF or whatever in testing. You like the stat line, you like the options, you like the cost though maybe it could go a few ways, but playtesters don't like it quite. It doesn't quite find it's niche, or it needs a little something else besides upgrades to be good, or in that literal wave the two ships do too little to stand apart - so as a developer you go "Okay, so how about this. We'll give it some unique design space, incorporate that into a 0 point title and adjust the base cost of the ship accordingly". I don't know if that's how they do it, but that should be a perfectly legitimate game design option. Because short of new actions, new manuevers or new upgrade icons (which mean more new rules) there are literally only so many basic combinations you can use on a ship. I don't know if after 9-10 waves FFG exhausted all of those, but, y'know, ships which are just "it's a B-Wing with hull and shield reversed and the colors of some maneuvers are different" etc would get dull, and not necessarily be what FFG wants to produce.

your thing at the end with laetin and tlt, that wouldn't work anymore with the timing chart change. He would only get an evade after both shots.

39 minutes ago, Mattman7306 said:

your thing at the end with laetin and tlt, that wouldn't work anymore with the timing chart change. He would only get an evade after both shots.

[Sigh] Just like poor Valen Rudor. I really need to print off that timing chart.

10 hours ago, Parakitor said:

[Sigh] Just like poor Valen Rudor. I really need to print off that timing chart.

Well...he would've been the bane of TLT's when he came out. Moot point now, though.

Great podcast! I've been waiting to hear somebody get stuck into the C-ROC because I'm really excited for it.

I actually got to try it out in a game this weekend. We proxied it using an Imperial Gozanti and assumed that its dial would be close enough to correct.

I ended up going pretty slim on upgrades on it - just Dengar for some dice mods and action efficiency, the Heavy Laser Turret and Frequency Jammer. I think that's the way to go - keep it lean on upgrades so that it doesn't sting to hard if it gets burned down.

Unfortunately we didn't see much of it in action - I had to deployed way on my right flank, behind a screen of asteroids that it was lined up to shoot through. Along with a couple of other ships it was a pretty sturdy hammer to come in and smash what my initial swarm had weakened.

But the other side of the board just collapsed for my opponent - a mixed squad of Scyks, Protectorates and Z-95s just burned down a Raider in about a turn and a half, he ran over his own shuttle and after that it was just a hodgepodge of TIEs to mop up. The C-ROC got to hand out some stress tokens and take a couple of pot shots, but by the time it got in there the battle was won.

I'll have to try it out again soon - keen to field it with Homing Missiles next game.

9 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

Great podcast! I've been waiting to hear somebody get stuck into the C-ROC because I'm really excited for it.

I actually got to try it out in a game this weekend. We proxied it using an Imperial Gozanti and assumed that its dial would be close enough to correct.

I ended up going pretty slim on upgrades on it - just Dengar for some dice mods and action efficiency, the Heavy Laser Turret and Frequency Jammer. I think that's the way to go - keep it lean on upgrades so that it doesn't sting to hard if it gets burned down.

Unfortunately we didn't see much of it in action - I had to deployed way on my right flank, behind a screen of asteroids that it was lined up to shoot through. Along with a couple of other ships it was a pretty sturdy hammer to come in and smash what my initial swarm had weakened.

But the other side of the board just collapsed for my opponent - a mixed squad of Scyks, Protectorates and Z-95s just burned down a Raider in about a turn and a half, he ran over his own shuttle and after that it was just a hodgepodge of TIEs to mop up. The C-ROC got to hand out some stress tokens and take a couple of pot shots, but by the time it got in there the battle was won.

I'll have to try it out again soon - keen to field it with Homing Missiles next game.

Thanks!

I think going cheap is definitely a strong way to go. We were going to review different list types, but will have to save it for next episode. When I go last, it can suck as everyone else can steal my ideas. So, I built 3 different lists that each had one of the main 3 epic mods. My first one was a Dengar build with Heavy Laser Turret. I agree with that one. We shall have to wait till next episode to go over builds. I'm excited that J-bot has more epic experience and can comment on it all now.

You know, I always assumed that you guys at least had a vague idea what each other was going to talk about in those segments, but I think I generally imagine things as being more organised than they are.

11 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

You know, I always assumed that you guys at least had a vague idea what each other was going to talk about in those segments, but I think I generally imagine things as being more organised than they are.

That's a great joke!

This episode was very much an anomaly in that we already knew what everyone else wanted to say because we had done the whole thing once already. We do relatively little communication and coordination before the cast. We usually just make an outline of what topics and segments we are going to cover, and go from there. The show-opener antics are never scripted and rarely coordinated.

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You guys talked a bit about Cikatro Vizago in standard play. I don't play scum very much, but I can totally see myself putting him on a ship equipped with "Hot Shot" Blaster. If you think of a Firespray, it has these two blindspots that are just begging for somebody to exploit. The problem is that most things that can get into that blind spot also happen to be equipped with Autothrusters, making "Hot Shot" Blaster completely useless. But what if, say, a Decimator with Engine Upgrade boosts into range 1 of your blindspot? Suddenly "Hot Shot" Blaster seems pretty good to me. At 3 points, it's a bit expensive, but Vizago gives you the flexibility to exchange it for any other Illicit upgrade if you're facing Autothrusters ships or if you decide a different illicit is called for.

Yeah, it's tough. Babaganoosh was right about the opportunity cost. Would I rather have a free crew and 3-point illicit, or a 1-point crew and a 2-point illicit? The latter wins almost every time.

Yeah, we don't plan much other than main topics ahead of time. Half the time I don't prep a good Captain's Question ahead of time. I never know what gag Phil is going to do and sometimes forget he even does those and get happily surprised most of the time. All the comments after that are us just playing off each other on the fly.

I've learned not to overtalk everyone too much and to try to grab J-bot or Jake's opinion on things if I feel one of them has been too quiet for too long. I usually go with Phil and/or Jake's opinion on things first, then J-bot. I'll try to sum up things after that....unless I really like an idea. Then I just babble all over it for too long and over talk everyone.

Maybe a Quadjumper is an alright place for Citakro Vizago. You probably want to keep them cheap anyway because they will just explode and die. But with Citakro you could take a cheap bomb and Scavenger Crane, then swap out the crane if you managed to survive the first few turns, once ships stopped exploding with such regularity.

I almost want to try Constable Zuvio with Connor Net, Pattern Analyzer, Crane, Tractor Array and Citakro.

Except that's 29 points on what's effectively a slower, squishier bomber. Yes, he can back up, drop a Conner Net, tractor you into the Conner Net, and then when you get shot up and die at your reduced agility refresh his bomb. But he will explode and die in ten seconds.

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I've learned not to overtalk everyone too much and to try to grab J-bot or Jake's opinion on things if I feel one of them has been too quiet for too long. I usually go with Phil and/or Jake's opinion on things first, then J-bot. I'll try to sum up things after that....unless I really like an idea. Then I just babble all over it for too long and over talk everyone.

The one comment I have is that occasionally when listening I'll suddenly realise that you've been arguing about some sort of really inane technicality for about five minutes. It seems like you somehow keep getting stuck in this sort of loop where one person makes an argument and then each other person tries to respond to it in a slightly different way and then the first person says exactly the same thing they said in the first place, and the rest of the crew has to come back with "Yeah, but, all the things we just said again". You always get back on track before it gets too dramatic.

5 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

The one comment I have is that occasionally when listening I'll suddenly realise that you've been arguing about some sort of really inane technicality for about five minutes. It seems like you somehow keep getting stuck in this sort of loop where one person makes an argument and then each other person tries to respond to it in a slightly different way and then the first person says exactly the same thing they said in the first place, and the rest of the crew has to come back with "Yeah, but, all the things we just said again". You always get back on track before it gets too dramatic.

Yes, we have gotten a bit better about repetitious arguments going on for too long (I think). We still do it, but hopefully not as much. I think we did it a bit too much in the "lost" episode, so it was better the 2nd time around.

44 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Yes, we have gotten a bit better about repetitious arguments going on for too long (I think). We still do it, but hopefully not as much. I think we did it a bit too much in the "lost" episode, so it was better the 2nd time around.

Just give J-bot a blaster and tell him to fire at something inanimate if you guys get in a loop... And by inanimate, I mean something that won't scream when shot.

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

Just give J-bot a blaster and tell him to fire at something inanimate if you guys get in a loop... And by inanimate, I mean something that won't scream when shot.

Well...ewoks do scream and that's his preferred target at the moment.

10 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Well...ewoks do scream and that's his preferred target at the moment.

So did R3... May he rest in pieces...

DEATH COMES RIPPIN!!!

So its now canon that the entire scum faction walks around in crocs. Even rebels in their blaze orange have more fashion sense than that.