How does the interaction between a Mind Probe against Dooku work? If Dooku currently has no shields and the player has 4 cards in hand and the opponent Mind Probes Dooku, how much damage does he take after discarding a card to get a shield? Would the 4 damage from mind probe change to 3 thus effectively doing 2 damage after the shield is removed? Or is the damage amount from mind probe fixed at the time you choose to resolve the dice and any number of discarding from Dooku to get shields will not reduce the damage.
Mind Probe against Dooku
I feel like the damage amount would be set at the time the die is resolved, but that's just my intuition.
Dooku's shield generation is a response, but in order to respond at all, damage must be dealt, which tells me the amount of damage must be in the process of resolving. For example, I'm not sure this window would exist for Dooku if the opponent had 0 cards in hand.
To me, this is the order of the interaction.
1: resolve dice "deal 1 damage for each card in opponents hand"
2. Dooku is about to be dealt 4 damage. Before he does so, Dooku Player discards a card to gain a shield.
3. Take the 4 damage.(losing your shield in the process).
Absolutely happy to be corrected.
^^^ That would be my assessment. First determine how many cards are in hand and thus eligible for dealing damage. Then apply damage, which triggers Dooku.
45 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:^^^ That would be my assessment. First determine how many cards are in hand and thus eligible for dealing damage. Then apply damage, which triggers Dooku.
Me too, makes sense.
3 hours ago, Stu35 said:Absolutely happy to be corrected.
I think you are right, you are resolving a single dice, and thus a single source of damage.
I truthfully don't see how you could take the original damage value (I see your argument, and I think it is absolutely valid, I just think it flies in the face of everything we have been told about "before" statements).
1) resolve a die, choose a target
2) before resolving the action, discard a card to get a shield
3) now you resolve
I feel that, if you say the discard doesn't happen in the "before" part, then how could you argue that the shield happens in the "before" part.
I think that if there was a time differential between "resolving dice" and "resolving damage" then it would be clearer that the original 4 damage for 4 cards would occur because you resolved the die before he would get the Dooku "before" action.
23 minutes ago, Traxlenak said:I truthfully don't see how you could take the original damage value (I see your argument, and I think it is absolutely valid, I just think it flies in the face of everything we have been told about "before" statements).
1) resolve a die, choose a target2) before resolving the action, discard a card to get a shield
3) now you resolve
I feel that, if you say the discard doesn't happen in the "before" part, then how could you argue that the shield happens in the "before" part.
I think that if there was a time differential between "resolving dice" and "resolving damage" then it would be clearer that the original 4 damage for 4 cards would occur because you resolved the die before he would get the Dooku "before" action.
Okay, so what happens if you try to Mind Probe for 1 and your opponent discards their last card to Dooku?
If he uses his ability, he didn't take any damage (hand size becomes 0), so he can't use his ability, but if he doesn't use his ability, he's going to take damage.
4 minutes ago, CBMarkham said:
Okay, so what happens if you try to Mind Probe for 1 and your opponent discards their last card to Dooku?
If he uses his ability, he didn't take any damage (hand size becomes 0), so he can't use his ability, but if he doesn't use his ability, he's going to take damage.
This isn't any worse than any other "before" ability. Second Chance triggers on defeat, but then the character isn't defeated, so how can it trigger?
Once an event occurs it still has occurred, and abilities have still triggered, even if something happens to change it.
8 hours ago, Traxlenak said:I truthfully don't see how you could take the original damage value (I see your argument, and I think it is absolutely valid, I just think it flies in the face of everything we have been told about "before" statements).
1) resolve a die, choose a target2) before resolving the action, discard a card to get a shield
3) now you resolve
I feel that, if you say the discard doesn't happen in the "before" part, then how could you argue that the shield happens in the "before" part.
I think that if there was a time differential between "resolving dice" and "resolving damage" then it would be clearer that the original 4 damage for 4 cards would occur because you resolved the die before he would get the Dooku "before" action.
On point 2: its not "before resolving the action" that dookus ability happens. It's "before he's dealt damage"
This absolutely is in line with how "before" works.
You go to deal him damage (based on cards in hand), then his ability kicks in after the damage has already been determined but before he's dealt it.
Lead developer explains here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/swdestiny/?fref=nf (if you are a member)
The damage is counted before the discard occurs.
Edited by AlexWThe new Queue rules in the rrg clear this up nicely.
The 4 damage enters the queue. Count Dookus "before damage" ability interupts the 4 damage and the controling player discards a card to gain a shield. The four damage then resolves from the queue.