I'm not going to make a claim on every game of Armada, but I'll make this one here about the Corellian Conflict: Hyperspace Escape is solid grounds for ejecting a player without recourse. there needs to be a different, separate mechanic.

While I can't describe every group, I can describe ours: only able to meet once every two weeks, for one total game between all 6 players during the campaign. We simply don't have the time or capability to go further. Blame that on local traffic and mass transit, it's true.

Hyperspace Escape, in our group, would be serious grounds for consideration for ejecting a player. With the amount of time and effort taken to play a full game with players sometimes traveling several hours each way, not at least attempting to play a game to conclusion would be a massive insult to the opposing player. Especially if they were looking at several hours to go back.

I live, work, and game in the San Francisco area. Even FFG darlings Intensify Forward Firepower (and yes guys, I know you get no special treatment) have to travel hours to even local regional events. Imagine arriving, spending tense periods debating with your team, and the game ends at turn 4.

I'd quit, and I wouldn't blame anyone else who joined me.

Any future campaign needs to utterly remove this ability. The only options should be win, lose, or forfeit. This ability doesn't just interrupt games, it kills gaming groups.

Thankfully, nobody here has used it.

Today, up to 3 fleets reset. On turn 2. Play your game, or quit.

Well sorry to say I totally disagree however...all but 1 of 8 or so people live within 10 minutes from our store!

Hyperspace Escape is legit. I've told people I purely want them to HSE as the GA to save for a strong next round. Without it doesn't give somone who had a bad round a lot of wiggle room. Especially scar VSD/ISD I etc... lose that and you might as well retire the fleet or downgrade. Especially if I want to maintain a CP lag to be able to attack twice each turn, save those points and don't slow down the long game with point drain.

Thus far I've seen this many hyperspace retreats: 0

But then again I think we're still struggling to plan our battles with this rule in mind - with the benefit of hindsight I can see several instances where I might have saved a ship by retreating it. Maybe.

I have to respond to this.

You are speaking for your own dynamic and your own group and not for the community as a whole.

The campaign is designed to allow a gradual build up of power, hyperapace out if you are in trouble is the way to do this. I feel you are missing the point of the campaign.

Luckily since this a game and not legally binding you have the wonderful opportunity to not play this rule in your local community, personally after being subjected to a thrashing recently I would have gladly hyperspaced out on turn 3 allow Me me to keep my fleet in play and not having to reset it, instead build it up so it could take on the guy that had a significant advantage points wise over me. Now I start on a 400 pts list playing 500pts enemies.

Resetting is not the answer every time only when it's a necessity that's the point.

If you were playing the regular format of the game I would agree that it would be annoying to travel for a long time and have your opponent forfeit on the 4th turn. However, your playing a campaign, which is much more about the long term state of fleets then the outcome of one battle. Denying your opponent the option to retreat in a bad situation stunts their ability to compete effectively and strategically and enjoy the overall campaign.

Or bring interdictors.

I know! I hate it when my opponent places a hula hoop on the table and says that all of his ships have escaped into huperspace!

Couldn't disagree more with the OP.

In the times we've used it, it's been to remove a dying ship from the battle to save it from getting scarred. A tactical withdrawal and it's not a decision taken lightly as your opponent scores as if it's destroyed anyway. Moreover, given it won't actually escape till the end of the turn, there's no guarantee that it will be able to hyperspace successfully.

If they hyperspace their whole fleet, well it's a free campaign point and not a whole lot of damage done. Secure the resources, build up to 500, and happy days for the next battle. If they do it continually then the campaign will be over fairly quickly.

If your group are so needing to experience the kill shot and a full 6 turns, then perhaps the campaign isn't the right model to play Armada?

I have to respond to this.

You are speaking for your own dynamic and your own group and not for the community as a whole.

The campaign is designed to allow a gradual build up of power, hyperapace out if you are in trouble is the way to do this. I feel you are missing the point of the campaign.

Luckily since this a game and not legally binding you have the wonderful opportunity to not play this rule in your local community, personally after being subjected to a thrashing recently I would have gladly hyperspaced out on turn 3 allow Me me to keep my fleet in play and not having to reset it, instead build it up so it could take on the guy that had a significant advantage points wise over me. Now I start on a 400 pts list playing 500pts enemies.

Resetting is not the answer every time only when it's a necessity that's the point.

If you were playing the regular format of the game I would agree that it would be annoying to travel for a long time and have your opponent forfeit on the 4th turn. However, your playing a campaign, which is much more about the long term state of fleets then the outcome of one battle. Denying your opponent the option to retreat in a bad situation stunts their ability to compete effectively and strategically and enjoy the overall campaign.

Or bring interdictors.

For what it's worth, several playes are resetting because nearly every large ship in the campaign has died at least once now.

The issue is that the commitment in distributed groups doesn't allow for HE. I know Drasnighta is around somewhere. Try to convince him that it's legit when he drives 2+ hours to get to a game.

I have players at my store spending $10 just in travel expenses to go cross-bay on mass transit. Driving would cost more, plus be an hour drive or more each way. Imagine doing that and your opponent ends the game midway, with no alternative game available.

That's a monetary and time expense for one player's convenience. When our players have to spend that time and money just to attend, it really affects your view of how mechanics work.

Here's a thought, if your group is all within minutes of each other: Declare at your next game that there will be a one hour limit before the game starts and a two drink minimum purchase. See how many people stick around to start on time.

It comes back to the old trying to win vs throwing more dice.

There are some matchups that are particularly tough, and the best solution is to play the objectives and avoid shooting and being shot. Though this may be the winning strategy, many would see this as not playing the game, a waste of time.

This game only really works when fleets and skill levels are balanced.

If one player has a big advantage in skill or build, the other person either loses big or takes the 'bad route' and potentially wins small.

I think this is the same as Hyperspacing. If I'm already losing, do I take the small win that is not having to waste point refitting for next round, or lose big and have to start from scratch.

Edit: (Then next week you are there with your nice victorious 450 point fleet and I'm now back at 400 and bound to lose again. Thats great fun for me to drive 2 hours to play.)

I don't see a problem with such a house rule, as long as all players are ok with it.

That said, it will influence the campaign, as the weaker part no longer has the ability to withdraw. Or an attacker who runs into a base he didn't expect.

So you might end up with a lot of mauled fleets and need to reset a lot, which will again impact the campaign.

But as long as you're ok with this, I don't see why not.

I don't quite understand the issue here. If no one in your group has used it, why does it need to be removed? The game doesn't end on turn 4 if you pull something out. You'd need to pull everything out. And the campaign is supposed to give you a greater impression of the strategy and tactics to keep your fleet alive.

Maybe if you would have retreated with your large ships, you wouldn't need to restart.

More importantly, you don't need to use every rule FFG makes for CC. Don't use it. Or grab an Interdictor.

Sounds like a troll.

But in case your not: If no one has withdrawn in your games yet, then you have no experience to base your views on other than what you think the outcome will be.

If your gaming group wants to play that way, then good for you guys. If not, I can see them just ejecting the bully whose trying to force his own rules into their campaign.

Im not familiart with a rule as i have not read the campaing, but hell you retreated? Go to beer? Play friendly game? Talk about stuff? If you are already there with free time and your friends use it.

Its like going to some event half across the country to not make it into day 2 cut. Am i upset? No. I do exacly the things i mentioned.

completely disagree, maybe the isn't for your group. Would normal games work better for your groups situation?

3 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Today, up to 3 fleets reset. On turn 2. Play your game, or quit.

That is unacceptable. When you commit your fleet to a campaign, you commit to the whole campaign. Using the rule to reset your fleet is weasel-y. If your 400 point fleet gets crushed down to 300 points, you should take your subsequent beatings like an adult.

But seriously, you're playing a campaign. Fleet management SHOULD play a part in that. If your game is shortened because of a hyperspace retreat, just pull out some small fleets and play another game (that isn't part of the campaign). This isn't difficult.

Seriously chill. Take the win and be happy, you (ot the HE's opponent) forced an opponent to flee the battle. Sure miught be frustration that blood lust was frustrated, but this is playing a campaign not a tournament, and an opponent fleeing is a victory with additional VPs.

The only part I dislike is only the Imperials have a hard counter

Hyperspace Escape is a great rule.

Playing a standard game of Armada is still something you can do.

Don't join a campaign if you don't want to play by the rules of said campaign. Certainly don't drive for hours to a game if you can't handle the framework in which the game is created.

Sounds to me like your problem isn't the rules, it's game location.... If travel times and expenses are your biggest issue, maybe find a location that is best for the whole group? There are plenty of community places that would allow people to show up and use if you contact them.

That said, HE is an important aspect of CC. Losing a battle isn't nearly as painful as losing a titled ship, sometimes you have to make that choice. CC is about the long game. Besides, that is NOT the worst tactic to face in a CC game. Imperials win by default in the event of a tie. I've seen players skirt the edges to avoid conflict for 6 rounds just to pull their team from the brink of destruction. Imagine driving that distance spending that money and that was your match. FRUSTRATING, Even so, that's not against the spirit of this mode... which is all about strategy.

Not to be negative.

Hyperspace Retreat isn't cutting the game short - it's ending the game in a very specific manner.

And seriously, if your time is at such a premium, play another (non-CC) game of Armada with the time. Or a lighter game. Or grab food, like people have said.

I'd be ticked if a foe went to huperspace too. That's against rules, I don't even know where that is?!

but seriously, you didn't use it... Fleets are needing to reset...

Do I need to point out the very obvious lack of strategic thinking that plagues your group or have none of you ever done any campaign in anything ever? You're Klingon mentality is weird and I'd laugh at you, kill a couple ships, and HE away if you faced me

Is it really beyond your creative scope to have people play pickup games or "what if" games after an HE?

Beginning to think I'm just feeding a troll

This post is silly.

Gr8 b8 m8 I r8, 2/10 IGN, would not read again.

Heck, I would've been very let down if they didn't have an option to retreat...or I was ejected. That's why the CC is so awesome; one can tactically save their resources for the all out offensive next turn. Or, your small fleet can defend against the power player's fleet, with minimal scarring, so your grand admiral is free to attack a key system. Being a rebel scum, it wouldn't feel thematic if we couldn't tactically retreat after sinking the interdictor.

Please don't turn this into name calling- he clearly has valid points which he feels strongly about.

Having a different opinion doesn't mean he is 'trolling'.

4 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

The issue is that the commitment in distributed groups doesn't allow for HE. I know Drasnighta is around somewhere. Try to convince him that it's legit when he drives 2+ hours to get to a game.

I have players at my store spending $10 just in travel expenses to go cross-bay on mass transit. Driving would cost more, plus be an hour drive or more each way. Imagine doing that and your opponent ends the game midway, with no alternative game available.

I responded to this, in long format, about anhour ago, but the forum ate it, so here's me, trying again:


1) I wish I was driving. I'm taking Public Transit, and walking a disgnificant distance in the snow, most days. I pay $12 each way for the privelage of having my personal stuff smashed by strangers, being vomited on and being threatened with muggings and beatings... (It would be $6, but I also happen to live just far enough away that a single 90 minute pass doesn't cut the journey distance).

2) Its totally a legitimate strategy. You would have complaints from me, if this were a turn 1 thing... But its turn for, at the absolute minimum. That gives me 4 turns of having the initiative, to press my opponent, to jump to an advantage. And even, in the end, I'm winning - most likely, anyway.

If its a Base assault, then hey, I just stripped resources from the enemy (or maintained my own) resource advantage.

If its a Resource Assault, then, yay, all the resources!

If its neither, then its just a fight, and ayay, +1 victory point. One step closer to 8 Points, to declare the final assault, where we'll have Numerical advantage AND there's no running away...

A campaign should be played with like-minded individuals - friends, if you will... You don't have any control over who you game with at a tournament, by the nature of the tournament - but you do in a campaign. This should never be an "issue", one way or the other.

...

Further with that, the game is slightly uneven at the moment, that only Imperials can stop Rebels from Hyperspacing away. But the rules are completely Future-Proofed in that instance (No mention of the word 'Interdictor' at all.)

In the very least, I encourage people to enjoy both the short and the long game.

22 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

I'd be ticked if a foe went to huperspace too. That's against rules, I don't even know where that is?!

Snip

It's an option in the CC rulebook. It is absolutely illegal in regular and tournament play, but the CC addendum changed a lot of that.