I am relatively new to the game, but my wife and I will go to the Hoth Open (Yeah!). Chicago is quite a trek from where we live in Hong Kong, so whilst I don't expect to do "well" at my first event (so much so that I also bought a ticket for an Epic event that is same time as second round games :-) ) we at least want to be competitive.

That aside I love Vader... such a badass (movies, not necessarily in game, although seems OK there too), and I really enjoy playing with the Phantom (when I remember to decloak him :-) ). But am unsure about the 3rd ship. Currently thinking of Sabbacc, as below, to get as much offense in as possible:

Vader: Lone Wolf, Title, Advanced Targeting, Engine Upgrade

Whisper: VI, Fire Control, Advanced Cloaking

Sabbac (Striker): Rage, Title, Lightweight

Alternatives to Sabbac include:

Dropping Engine (and Wolf?) for Inquisitor

Omega Ace with PTL

2 Academy Pilots

I believe I could just have adaptability on Vader giving me 31 points for new pilot, but then who...???? Carnor Jax maybe? But isn't Vader then a bit "meh"

Thoughts?

I like the list the way it is, except for Rage on Sabbac. I don't know your collection, but I'd just put Crackshot there. If you can pull off the range control Lone Wolf is excellent for Vader as it is cheaper than Predator and buffs his defense versus TLTs by quite a bit.

Whisper is rather lean and could use a Rebel Captive. If you want to do that, give Vader VI and remove Lightweight Frame from Sabbac.

Definitely wouldn't rage with Sabacc. I'd consider taking Countdown to buff Whisper with a crew, either rebel captive or Kallus.

6 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

Definitely wouldn't rage with Sabacc. I'd consider taking Countdown to buff Whisper with a crew, either rebel captive or Kallus.

Why not recon specialist? (Rebel Captive is a good choice for control) I am seeing more Whisper builds using Kallus. I have not flown against Kallus yet, but isn't he only good against one ship?

Also, Adaptability on Vader would be a good option, too, considering the number of VI Rear Admirals and Reys you're going to see.

That frees up some points for Rebel Captive on Whisper. You could also put Operational Specialist on Whisper - unreleased but will be pretty good (literally the opposite of Lone Wolf).

10 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

Why not recon specialist? (Rebel Captive is a good choice for control) I am seeing more Whisper builds using Kallus. I have not flown against Kallus yet, but isn't he only good against one ship?

He's only good against a single ship but he's actionless dice modification on both offense and defense.

If it helps I have most ships, and cards, so wouldn't worry about that. Although don't have Kallus yet, but what's another $40 for tha Assault Carrier :-)

I understand double stress isn't great (at all), but I figured with no target lock it was a good (cheap) way to do 5 dice + focus + reroll 3 hits :-). Combined with Whisper (who they'd tag team with) that's a lot of hurt. Other builds seems to be "plink, plink", but I wanted an alpha strike option (don't have to use it, but I thought it was a great option to have - for one point) vs someone like Dengar or anyone else when I really need to put some hurt on.

Lone Wolf vs VI on Vader is a tricky one. Overall I think wolf is better, although out ace-ing all other aces seems very nice.

Played a couple of games, thought a bit more and currently planning the below:

Vader: ATC, Lone Wolf, Engine Upgrade

Whisper: VI, FCS, ACD, Kylo Ren

Adv Prototype Test Pilot: Title, Auto thrusters, Proton Rocket.

So still has option for 5 dice attack, but the third ship is often used as a blocker etc so better defence seems good (but still very manauvrable ) rather then Sabbac.

Biggest issue I have had is people who have higher PS (or initiative) than whisper. Kylo + Vader gives me a reasonable chance to make them PS0. :-)

Considering your original list, I'd definitely give Sabacc VI, so has bigger chance to squeeze through some hits before he takes damage. I'd also switch LW on Vader for Adaptability and for those 2 pts put some crew on Whisper. Either put in Kallus with no bid or just Intelligence Agent (may synergize decently with ailerons and PS8/10 Vader) and keep 1 pt bid.

Also, Adaptability may help with initiative issues. I think that both Whisper and Vader at PS9 are in conflict regarding moving and shooting order, so moving Vader up to PS10 and keeping the bid may resolve this.

10 hours ago, Dave Grant said:

Played a couple of games, thought a bit more and currently planning the below:

Vader: ATC, Lone Wolf, Engine Upgrade

Whisper: VI, FCS, ACD, Kylo Ren

Adv Prototype Test Pilot: Title, Auto thrusters, Proton Rocket.

So still has option for 5 dice attack, but the third ship is often used as a blocker etc so better defence seems good (but still very manauvrable ) rather then Sabbac.

Biggest issue I have had is people who have higher PS (or initiative) than whisper. Kylo + Vader gives me a reasonable chance to make them PS0. :-)

I never thought about that, but that could be HUGE for the phantom in general

If you go a little bit cheaper on your Aces, you can fit Palp in. Yeah, it's Palp Aces, but with Vader and a Phantom, could be interesting:

Vader: Adaptability, EU, Title, ATC

Echo: VI, FCS, ACD

OGP: Palp

You can mix up the basics there. I personally fly VI Vader, Echo with Collision Detector and Intel Agent, but it fits into 100 points.

Thanks - I had already thought of the palp build.... although I dropped Vader's engine and kept whisper to do it. (30+39+29 = 98 with 2 points for "something" - possible intel agent and VI on vader).

Overall I felt I was dropping too much from my main ships to fit in Palp... If I really wanted Palp I would probably go for a palp decimator + phantom list.

I'm currently liking the Kylo build (just waiting for the bat to arrive to try it out). I don't play much but I don't think I've lost Whisper except vs PS9+ (apart from the one time I accidently flew him onto a rock... but we don't talk about that). Even vs turrets I generally find hiding behind rocks, and getting 5 defence dice, does just fine. I love going right up to a rock, and then decloaking either side of it :-).

Pretty much fixed on that last list now:

What about a TIE Bomber Scimitar with Kylo Ren? That way you're not losing Whisper's action to trigger it, you've got a "PLEASE SHOOT ME NOW!" target that takes heat from Vader and Whisper, and you can put Agent Kallus or Rebel Captive back on Whisper.

I'm trying this similar one this afternoon:

Vader: Title, ATC, Adaptability, Engine Upgrade

Whisper: VI, FCS, ACD, Intelligence Agent

Omicron: General Hux

What do you think of it? I'll report later my experience.

I'm trying this similar one this afternoon:

Vader: Title, ATC, Adaptability, Engine Upgrade

Whisper: VI, FCS, ACD, Intelligence Agent

Omicron: General Hux

What do you think of it? I'll report later my experience.

Edit: WTF, it doubleposted by itself o.o

On 2/5/2017 at 8:53 PM, iamfanboy said:

What about a TIE Bomber Scimitar with Kylo Ren? That way you're not losing Whisper's action to trigger it, you've got a "PLEASE SHOOT ME NOW!" target that takes heat from Vader and Whisper, and you can put Agent Kallus or Rebel Captive back on Whisper.

Yeah, this is solid advice.

This list here has some serious potential:

Whisper w/ VI, FCS, ACD & kallus = 41

Vader w/ LW, X-1, ATC & engine = 36

Scimitar w/ title, captive & kylo = 22

99

Initiative bid is not important, since Scimitar + Vader means any competing PS 9 ship will be PS 0 in short order!

And for anything else, feed 'em blinded pilot!

Kylo isn't bad on the bomber with captive. But I would argue that you should go juke on vader, two reasons

1, it helps get that crit threw on high agility ships, which are often the ones who suffer the most from the pilot crits

2, it's both offensive and defensive, if you have a focus, your gonna be tempted to spend it on offense, or accept the bunk shot,but your green dice could possibly roll no eyes, so it can be a total waste

The evade helps vader offensively, even if you blank on the two dice, your crit still has a chance to make it through if they have no focus. And can still be used for defense after, no matter what you roll

Or let's say you dont have a target lock because sometimes you dont, juke makes your 2 dice more relevant.

Plus it seems playing around lone wolf will hurt your positioning at times and vader is all about positioning, it helps him in the end game, but juke helps you finish the game

I gotta agree with the logic on Juke. Vader is very nice with Juke because he can BR/boost AND evade, giving him arc-dodging ability - or turtle up behind evade/focus, and Juke also gives him more offensive utility there. It constrains the opponent's choice of actions as well, because they HAVE to take Focus or worry about a crit being punched through.

I disagree with X-1 and the Rebel Captive, though. Kylo loses utility the longer he's in the game, and you want them aiming at him. Lightweight Frame and some 2-point crew (Systems Officer? Tactician?) or Prockets on Vader would be a better choice IMHO.

The Lambda has terrible greens for Hux and I really hate the "No spendy Focus on defense" clause, particularly for a frail ImpAces build. It's just the wrong fit. Maybe a double Decimator for Hux, since they don't care about defense anyway? Honh.

Juke means you are more vulnerable to turrets. I would stick with Lone Wolf because the entire list lacks an autothruster ship and therefore its a vulnerability. Unless you have difficulty keeping LW active, of course. It does takes practice. I don't have that problem, since I've played hundreds of times with it, but I can see someone preferring Juke because its easier to keep it active (but then you have difficulties beating turret lists).

Prockets are a bad call on Vader. I've tried it both ways many, many times. Homing Missile is better value, but of course, costs 5 points, so not always room for it.

Vader @ R1 w/ LW, ATC & focus usually scores 3 or 4 crits/hits (1 crit for sure)

Vader w/ prockets, TL + Focus scores 4 or 5 hits (often a crit in there, but not guaranteed). So at the expense of your TL, you are gaining 1 extra hit for 3 points once per game. Not the worst deal ever, but certainly not great value.

Of course, if you drop LW for Juke, then prockets do become more attractive, since your R1 shot without them is less likely to be 4 hits/crits.

Having said that, rebel captive may not be the best option. Those are definitely 3 points that can be played around with to see what else works!

I like it though because I can arc-dodge with my other ships, so there will be times when the opponent can only shoot the bomber. And if he does, he takes a stress...

My problem with lone wolf is it takes mental effort, makes you more predictable when all your ships arena live still, removes options as far as your approach to a situation all for a CHANCE! One die reroll

Juke on the other hand is easier, doesn't make you predictable and it is for sure going to its job, if they roll an evade, it turns to an eye, when you get attacked, you spend it to evade a shot. It's stronger offense and good defense, no odds required, and forces your opponent to focus and use it defensively, not offensively.

And you really can't do without x1, especially if your running Kylo crew,because then you leave the activation to chance...not for certain, combo with juke and it's a match made in heaven. You can still run a missile if you want, and in fact juke helps that even more too.

Sorry I have just been having a lot of success with this combo recently and I just prefer it over all, try it out,I bet you will like it too

7 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

Yeah, this is solid advice.

This list here has some serious potential:

Whisper w/ VI, FCS, ACD & kallus = 41

Vader w/ LW, X-1, ATC & engine = 36

Scimitar w/ title, captive & kylo = 22

99

Initiative bid is not important, since Scimitar + Vader means any competing PS 9 ship will be PS 0 in short order!

And for anything else, feed 'em blinded pilot!

I think if you are going to run the Scimitar, you really need Lightweight Frame. I ran it last night and that one extra die kept my Scimitar alive for the whole game even though it was the target that my opponent was focusing on. Remember that Tie Bombers are crit magnets, so any extra dice you can throw can help keep the damage off of them.

Thanks for replies.

LW vs Juke is an interesting discussion. I like LW because you don't need an action. Stressed, bumped.... it still works, and multiple times a turn which is great vs TLTs, any swarm type build etc.

Also I quite often boost and roll in same turn... so no chance to evade for Juke. Having comms makes Juke MUCH more attractive, but as Vader can't get it that's no good.

As for predictability... nope. I have no issue flying into range 2 when needed, but that is usually (hopefully) to get multiple ships in range one and kill stuff.

That said I do see Jukes merits, and LW, Juke and VI is a difficult choice (Kylo reduces attractiveness of VI though)

re scimitar... really not sure about this. Doesn't have much other than Ren. I think Kylo is worth 3 points, but not worth having a ship who's purpose is to carry him around.

The adv prototype is a really good ship for the points. Great at blocking, very manauvrable and prockets make him a very real threat.

Kylos main role is to drop high PS down to 0. Vs most lists this means I will only need to activate once a game... usually when Whisper is range 3 (and hopefully behind a rock).

It would be nice to have Kallus or Rebel (or gunner, intel agent...) on Whisper, but for me it's a choice between them and Kylo... I feel scimitar takes too much from the list as a whole.

Im really intrigued by Whisper with Kylo crew. ****. I read this post, then yesterday I played a game with Kylo pilot, with Inquisitor. Norra was down to 1 hull and had IWSYTD from a previous attack, then was able to regen three shields (C3PO + R2D2 Norra is no joke). I was getting frustrated then BAM! I rolled a crit with Inquisitor and Norra called Zero with C3PO but rolled 1 evade, and her ability cancels out another. The crit goes through and Norra died with 3 shields remaining.

So, I remembered this post and am like ****, Whisper + Vader could kill regen Corran in two rounds. Bossk could get blinded pilot twice in row easily, whisper and Vader could fly range 1 to his face and unload, and he'd be dead before ever firing.

So, I was thinking of Scimitar with Kylo crew, but you have the same problem with TL on low PS ships. If the scim doesnt get Kylo on Bossk, he gets a shot. If Corran kills Scim before the second IWSYTD, you have to deal with a regen Corran. So, Kylo, being on a PS9 Whisper means, whisper gets this "F-you regen" ability for the entire game, and it only takes her action once until it is successful!

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Kylo Ren (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Fleet Officer (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

So, this is my version I will be trying out. My scim is pure support, going to toss a focus token to Whisper that first round she uses Kylo crew, and maybe to Vader since he needs to TL and probably BR/BOOST as well. Gives a better chance that first crit goes through. Inspired recruit because Rebels like Gunner Braylen which is almost autokill for Whisper and Vader, and you never know when Kturning through Debris is your best move J/K Vader has VI to get PS10 Reys, Hans, RACs either blinded pilot before they attack with Vader crew, etc. Or drop them to PS0 in first round and also not worry about Adaptability Vaders who also have Kylo shenanigans!

For that third ship, this has peaked my interest, will see how scimitar goes first though:

Baron of the Empire (19)
A Score to Settle (0)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 22

Can we get updates on matches anyone has tried with this pairing? Would like to hear battle reports, and see what is working and what isn't.

15 minutes ago, wurms said:

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Kylo Ren (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
Fleet Officer (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 98

I'm not too crazy about Kylo on Whisper because it takes her action to use him when she really needs to be taking an evade or a focus.