I have a question I'd like answered by Corey.

To my knowledge if Apollo is the Admiral he can launch Nukes from anywhere, including his Viper in space. Also, to my knowledge launching a nuke is an Attack -- it is in the Attacking section on the Attack Table.

Next, I know that there are two basic types of attack Actions that Apollo can take from the viper --

Action: While piloting a Viper you may activate that viper to fire on a Cylon ship in the same space as your Viper.

OR

Action: If you are admiral, attack a Cylon basestar with a Nuke.

So, both firing a viper and launching a nuke are attacks and typically cost an action each for a Viper pilot. Here's the question on which our table was divided: can you launch a nuke as one of the attacks from Maximum Firepower?

"Action: Play while piloting a viper to attack up to 4 times."

It doesn't say "activate the Viper to attack". And it doesn't say you are attacking "with the Viper". It just says:

1) you are piloting a Viper
2) you can attack four times

Sounds like you might be able to fire a nuke if you are both a Viper jockey and the Admiral too. Probably not the original design intent, but can you do it?

Lee

You can wait for an answer form Corey but the answer to your questions is clear.

Each player is granted one action on his turn. Actions are limited to anything that says "Action" on a Skill card, on a Character sheet as an ability, on a Title card, or by activating a Location. In addition, Pilots may take additional actions: move a Viper, attack with a viper, and now, move back to the ship.

An attack is not the same as an action. An attack is a type of action.

Launching a Nuke is an Action. it is listed under the attack table to show you want the rolls do to the specific ships but it is not an attack per se.

Maximum Firepower is a specific skill card that allows you to attack with your viper up to 4 times. It is not related to Launching a Nuke in any way whatsoever.

If you want to use Maximum Firepower to attack 4 times, that is fine but you will need an ADDITIONAL Action to launch a Nuke. The only way Admiral Apollo could do both in the same turn is if he was XOed by another player on their turn.

ColtsFan76 said:

Brian, if a nuke is not an attack then how can it even apply damage tokens to a basestar. What are damage tokens? The rulebook says:

"These tokens represent the vital systems that can be damaged when Galactica or a basestar is hit by an enemy attack."

I can't even begin to understand how something that is thematically a powerful attack, which can apply damage tokens (which exist to represent damage from "an enemy attack"), which is on a table with a "Unit Attacked", in an "Attack Table", and in an "Attacking" section heading is not an attack.

Lee

1) It takes an action to launch a nuke, regardless of whether it's an attack or not.

2) Maximum firepower does not grant actions.

Therefore, you can't use nukes with MP.

You're welcome to houserule or clamor about grammar all you want, but I flat out guarantee you that if you ever get an official response, it will say the exact same thing.

You have to realize this is a game and what makes logical sense may not make practical game sense. A Nuke is JUST an ACTION.

It is not an attack by Vipers and is not an option under Maximum Firepower. Maximum Firepower ONLY grants Viper attacks.

Look at the text on the MF card:

Action: Play while piloting a viper to attack up to 4 times.

Look at the corrected text on the Admiral card:

Action: Launch 1 nuke at a basestar (the nuke is removed from the game).
[On a roll of 1-2 damage the basestar twice, 3-6 destroy the basestar, and 7-8 destroy the basestar and 3 raiders.]

No where on the Admiral card does it say anything about an "attack." The only way to activate a Nuke is through an ACTION. No where on the MF card does it grant you additional Actions. It only grants you additional attacks - which when piloting a viper is a very specific thing - to attack cylons ships with the Viper.

If I were playing BSG with you and your rules, I would then also interpret it such that if I were piloting a viper and played the Maximum Firepower card, I would be allowed to punch you in the face four times. It's an attack, after all.

I agree with coltsfan completely, but I get the feeling you're not going to listen to anyone except Corey.

So I'll take a different angle on this. Let's talk about what the card means thematically and within the realm of sci-fi.

So you're a viper pilot and you're using 'maximum firepower'. What does that mean? As a pilot it means unloading all of your weapons on a group of enemies (guns and missiles) until you have nothing left to fire at them and exhausting yourself physically, perhaps even putting yourself in danger. It's about what the pilot does in his cockpit with the controls and tools he has with a viper.

It doesn't matter who that pilot is; if he's the admiral, going all-out against your opponent does not include launching nukes unless nukes are loaded into his viper which they are clearly not.

Launching nukes is a command that must be given to an assumed nuclear launch team (or an officer) within Galactica. It has nothing to do with the physical exertion and talent that a pilot possesses which is what I interpret maximum firepower to be.

So THEMATICALLY speaking, I don't think that launching nukes from a viper can be included in maximum firepower.

From a board game strategy perspective, I also agree that you can't launch nukes while playing maximum firepower unless you start your turn in the same space as a basestar and use one of your actions to launch a nuke and the other to play the skill card (thus giving you four shots at taking out raiders or a basestar). Nukes aren't included in the actions you can take with your viper for the reasons Coltsfan said above.

hudarklord said:

The issue isn't that a nuke isn't an attack. Rather, using a nuke is an action of itself that includes an attack, and Max Firepower doesn't grant you extra actions. In the same way, Kat can't use a max firepower to shoot three times and then use here once per game to destroy something. If you want to fire multiple nukes, just play a Critical Situation or get another player to give you an Executive Order.

Further, if you want to be thematic, I'm sure Admiral Apollo isn't flying around in a Viper with a pair of nuclear warheads strapped to the wings and slaved to the trigger in his control stick.

If you genuinely want to resolve a rules question, you've got concurring input from several experienced players right here. I'll give you credit for coming up with what might have been an exploit, but it really isn't. If you prefer not to believe us, you can send a message to FFG rules support. Trying to argue the point with us isn't going to change anything though.

Bleached Lizard said:

I actually laughed out loud ... I know I shouldn't have, but I did.

This same debate was raging over at BGG, you get the same answers there from the same people have had similar discussions with Corey already.

Why can't you just accept your answer?

The problem with his argument is that it involves an equivocation. The word "attack" means something specific in game terms, which is different from "attack" in a general sense. The sense of the word on the card is a specific action which can be performed from a viper, specifically, attacking Cylon ships with the viper.

Additionally, if you are trying to ask Corey about a rules question, you should go to http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp.

JamesR87 said:

I definitely laughed out loud too.

broken said:

I thought it was hilarious. I mean, the original post is the sort of intentional category mistake that gives "power gamers" or people who enjoy playing 'optimally' a bad name. This isn't power-gaming or optimization, it's the intentional misreading of the rules in order to cheat.

It's pretty clear that spending an nuke token using the admiral title is not an attack in the strict rules sense; it might be an attack in common language, but the word 'attack' on maximum firepower has a particular meaning in the rules.

Initially, I wasn't going to post in this thread, because it was so ludicrous, but Bleached Lizard certainly captured how I feel about it.