1 minute ago, Desslok said:

Here you go guys, chew on this line of thought:

Yeah I enjoyed that video a lot.

36 minutes ago, Vorzakk said:

I may be mis-remembering, but didn't he lose one on Geonosis and then another Jedi threw he and Obi-Wan some spares?

First time we see him losing a Lightsaber is in AOC while hunting the Bountyhunter Zam Wezels, that one is catched by Obi-Wan during the pursuit.

When Obi-Wan gives it back to Ani he says: "how often do i have to tell you be carefull, not to lose your lightsaber, it is your life!" (the quote is free, since I watched the movie in a differnet language than english but you get the gist I guess!)

afterwards his saber is destroyed on Geonosis where the metalcutter in the droidfactory destroys it. Anikin than mentioned "No! Not again! Master Obi-Wan will scold me once more for this!"

Therefore he and Obi-Wan are getting replacements by one of the Jedis in the arena, but those lightsabers are lost during the fight with dookun when anakin finds out that he is able to dual wield lightsabers and also loses one of his hands

The Next time we see him "losing" a saber is in ROTS when Obi-Wan makes a crispy shish-kebab out of Ani/Vader and confiscates the saber to one day hand it over to Luke (who then again loses it in the Wampa cave (where he can retrieve it) and then for good on Bespine. later Finn gets it but loses it after his fight with Kylo, who want to retriev it but loses it immediatly to rey in a force pull contest. she gives it back to Luke ... who throws it away on purpose this time... Rey keeps it an loses it to Kylo and snoke when she let her self be captured so that kylo can use it against snoke, then it goes a little bit forth and back between kylo and ren during the pratorian fight scene and in the end it ist destroyed and los for good... except that rey brings the remains of it to Leia... hui what a story of an item that get lost all the time ^^)

So yes it is set in the canon than Anakin loses his sabers all the time

PS. I liked the new movie (even though it had some little flaws, but then again that had every installation of Star Wars so far ^^) *keeping my head down*

31 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Here you go guys, chew on this line of thought:

I am curious about the part where he says "Anakin was basically a humonculous, genetically engineered by dark force energy"

...did I miss a memo or something? Where did they establish that the Dark Side is what made him? Or is this a reference to something else? Like some Darth was tinkering with embryos or something, infused them with Dark Side juice, and then medically impregnated Anakin's mom?

That part does puzzle me a bit, as the statement is very specific in it's wording, but I don't remember anything actually establishing it to that level of specificity. And I certainly don't recall hearing fans argue about it for the last 20 years either.

No luke must have had the sword between rotj and tfa, otherwise he could not put a map in it

9 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

No luke must have had the sword between rotj and tfa, otherwise he could not put a map in it

He put the map in a lightsaber? I don't remember that at all. Is that something the book elaborated on? Because they never explained in the film where the data came from, at least not that I can recall.

47 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I am curious about the part where he says "Anakin was basically a humonculous, genetically engineered by dark force energy"

...did I miss a memo or something? Where did they establish that the Dark Side is what made him? Or is this a reference to something else? Like some Darth was tinkering with embryos or something, infused them with Dark Side juice, and then medically impregnated Anakin's mom?

That part does puzzle me a bit, as the statement is very specific in it's wording, but I don't remember anything actually establishing it to that level of specificity. And I certainly don't recall hearing fans argue about it for the last 20 years either.

I don't know if this holds true under the new canon, but back in the day when Plagueis and Palpatine were experimenting with trying to extend life beyond death, Anakin's birth was a result. Kind of a equal and opposite reaction sort of thing. Palpatine was all "Wow, it did work - just not as we were intending" when he found out the circumstances around Anakin's birth.

1 hour ago, Nightone said:

So yes it is set in the canon than Anakin loses his sabers all the time

I see. So when Obi-Wan says "Your father's lightsaber" as though that meant something; he didn't mean the first one that he built or the one that saw him through the Clone Wars or anything like that, just the one (of many) that he happened to have on him at the time of his crispening.

23 minutes ago, Desslok said:

I don't know if this holds true under the new canon, but back in the day when Plagueis and Palpatine were experimenting with trying to extend life beyond death, Anakin's birth was a result. Kind of a equal and opposite reaction sort of thing. Palpatine was all "Wow, it did work - just not as we were intending" when he found out the circumstances around Anakin's birth.

...and where was this actually stated? I'm guessing some EU bit of fiction? I mean, in the decades of fans griping about the prequels, this is literally the first I've ever heard about this point. I'd always assumed they'd just stuck with the "Force Jesus" conception, which was actually presented in the films.

46 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

...and where was this actually stated? I'm guessing some EU bit of fiction? I mean, in the decades of fans griping about the prequels, this is literally the first I've ever heard about this point. I'd always assumed they'd just stuck with the "Force Jesus" conception, which was actually presented in the films.

I recall having an “AHA!” moment when watching RotS, and hearing Palpatine tell Anakin the “Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise,” and telling him that Pllagueis was "so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life.”

Seemed pretty pointed to me.

Although it would seem that, at some point, it was altered to Anakin’s conception being the Force’s response to Plagueis’ attempts to do so.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

He put the map in a lightsaber? I don't remember that at all. Is that something the book elaborated on? Because they never explained in the film where the data came from, at least not that I can recall.

If i recall correct, and i am not sure that i do, one part of the map was in bb 8 (from the yakku village that gets burned at the start of part 7) and the other part in his lightsabre. But maybe i remember incorrect. I did see the movie two times in cinema and then never again.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

...and where was this actually stated? I'm guessing some EU bit of fiction?

It's been years since I read it, but I think it was in the Darth Plagueis novel, the one all about young Palpatine. I'm at work, so no time for research, but I'm pretty sure that's where it came from.

15 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I recall having an “AHA!” moment when watching RotS, and hearing Palpatine tell Anakin the “Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise,” and telling him that Pllagueis was "so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life.”

Seemed pretty pointed to me.

Although it would seem that, at some point, it was altered to Anakin’s conception being the Force’s response to Plagueis’ attempts to do so.

I just saw that as another line of BS that Palpatine was feeding Anakin to push him to his side. Seeing as right after that he says something along the lines of "I might know a way to keep your wife from dying, like the visions you've been having...hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, GO DARK SIDE!!"

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

He put the map in a lightsaber? I don't remember that at all. Is that something the book elaborated on? Because they never explained in the film where the data came from, at least not that I can recall.

There wasn’t a map in the lightsaber. Lor San Tekka had a map to Ahch-To (because he was a Jedi scholar), which was the place Luke had gone looking for. He gave the map to Poe, Poe gave it to BB-8, and BB-8 delivered it to Leia & company. But it was incomplete; it was the end of the route, but without a clue as it to where in the galaxy it was. Fortunately, R2 had the rest.

The lightsaber was just Anakin’s lightsaber; Kylo was just a giant Vader fanboy.

I just rewatched Clone Wars, and while everyone was always losing their sabers, they almost always recovered them. Ahsoka lost one of hers while on the run, and the other when she was captured, and didn’t get either back, until she faced Maul on Mandalore. I think Anakin had the same one throughout.

31 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I just saw that as another line of BS that Palpatine was feeding Anakin to push him to his side. Seeing as right after that he says something along the lines of "I might know a way to keep your wife from dying, like the visions you've been having...hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, GO DARK SIDE!!"

But that was true as well. He did know a way to do that … and he killed her and transferred her life force to Anakin to keep is apprentice alive in RotS in the end (not blatantly spoken out, but considering that she '"lost her will to live" a reasonable interpretation, fitting old Palpy and the powers he was supposed to have) .Using basically exactly the kind of power he told Anakin he has to do the very thing Anakin wanted to prevent when he turned. Irony is strong in the prequels and absolutely intentional.

30 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I just saw that as another line of BS that Palpatine was feeding Anakin to push him to his side. Seeing as right after that he says something along the lines of "I might know a way to keep your wife from dying, like the visions you've been having...hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, GO DARK SIDE!!"

To me, his making separate, distinct points of using the Force to create life and prevent people from dying was what caught my attention.

2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

To me, his making separate, distinct points of using the Force to create life and prevent people from dying was what caught my attention.

On top does it fit the style of star wars. "No, I am your father."
Palpatine being basically granddaddy of Luke is exactly that kind of revelation that suits the Saga as Space Opera perfectly fine.
Why else should there be this whole immaculate conception thing in TPM when it never becomes relevant to the slightest in the movies?


Man, it been almost 20 years now, and I actually WISH for a special edition of the prequels, with cleaned up dialog, editing, etc … but I doubt that it can be done.

12 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

But that was true as well. He did know a way to do that … and he killed her and transferred her life force to Anakin to keep is apprentice alive in RotS in the end (not blatantly spoken out, but considering that she '"lost her will to live" a reasonable interpretation,

Sorry, but I don't consider that a reasonable interpretation. That somehow Palp was able to reach across the galaxy and suck the life force from her (while simultaneously giving a speech in front of the Senate, given how the scenes were spliced together), while the two remaining Jedi are right there, and neither of them get a sense of some Dark Side presence, literally killing the woman they are standing there looking at? Sorry but that sounds like "Snoke is Mace Windu" level of fan theorizing to me. Aboslutely nothing in the film even suggests that, and given Lucas' blunt way with dialogue in those films, the idea that he was so subversive with the text, that he snuck in "Palpatine killed Padme with some Dark Side leech power from across the galaxy", just doesn't feel like something he was capable of at that time, or ever really.

13 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

To me, his making separate, distinct points of using the Force to create life and prevent people from dying was what caught my attention.

Yes, because Anakin was asking about how to keep his wife from dying, so of course he would make comments hinting that he knew of a way to keep someone alive, or prevent them from dying. He was tempting Anakin to make that final decision and follow him openly.

3 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Yes, because Anakin was asking about how to keep his wife from dying, so of course he would make comments hinting that he knew of a way to keep someone alive, or prevent them from dying. He was tempting Anakin to make that final decision and follow him openly.

Right. Which is covered by his saying that he knew of a way to prevent her from dying. Meanwhile, creating life - not prolonging, not restoring, but creating - was a wholly separate point that he made.

1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Right. Which is covered by his saying that he knew of a way to prevent her from dying. Meanwhile, creating life - not prolonging, not restoring, but creating - was a wholly separate point that he made.

Right but that doesn't then translate to unspoken "So that means you are the secret Dark Force Frankenstein result, that we then stuck into the body of this slave woman on a dirtball in the middle of nowhere, instead of, you know, keeping you in our labs and doing further experiments on you, and grooming you from birth to be our servant, because we're the Sith and that's how we roll"

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

Sorry, but I don't consider that a reasonable interpretation. That somehow Palp was able to reach across the galaxy and suck the life force from her (while simultaneously giving a speech in front of the Senate, given how the scenes were spliced together), while the two remaining Jedi are right there, and neither of them get a sense of some Dark Side presence, literally killing the woman they are standing there looking at?

Somehow force projecting across the galaxy is a thing too. ;-)
Somehow force choking someone across the galaxy is a thing too.
He clearly stated that his master Plagueis had the ability to give and take life. Which seems pretty on point for our good old Heal/Harm Force power, and with Anakin and Padme sharing a strong bond and Mother Talzin having shown how to use bonds to extend the range of force powers to become basically galaxy wide … somehow.

Now the editing: You seem to remember the scene wrong, because the editing is switching from Padme giving birth and Vader being born back and forth with Padme dying and Vader rising. Including Padme seeming to sense that Anakin is still alive. And actually old man Palpy is downright telling Vader that Padme is dead the very next moment. Lying to him about the cause of death.

13 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Somehow force projecting across the galaxy is a thing too. ;-)
Somehow force choking someone across the galaxy is a thing too.
He clearly stated that his master Plagueis had the ability to give and take life. Which seems pretty on point for our good old Heal/Harm Force power, and with Anakin and Padme sharing a strong bond and Mother Talzin having shown how to use bonds to extend the range of force powers to become basically galaxy wide … somehow.

Now the editing: You seem to remember the scene wrong, because the editing is switching from Padme giving birth and Vader being born back and forth with Padme dying and Vader rising. Including Padme seeming to sense that Anakin is still alive. And actually old man Palpy is downright telling Vader that Padme is dead the very next moment. Lying to him about the cause of death.

So I just rewatched both the birth of Vader, and the birth of the twins scenes, and at no point, during the actual events themselves, does Palpatine even show up. No quick cut to him laughing faded over Padme, no scene of him watching from the shadows as Vader is assembled, no hand over his head yelling out something like "GIVE HIM THE POOOOOOWAAAAAAHHH!" like he had done not 20 minutes ago with his 'UNLIMITED POOOOOOWAAAAHH!" lunatic cackle. The first time Palpatine shows up in that portion of the film, is AFTER Vader is assembled, to tell him that Vader killed Padme.

So now we're trying to say, that in two incredibly important scenes in a movie that is trying to tell a story visually, the true event going on "The life force of Padme being sucked out of her from across the galaxy, and being fed into Vader", is neither hinted at at all, or shown in any way to be what's happening? That the director decided that the audience didn't need to see a single frame of celluloid, indicating this being what's going on? Sorry, but that's just horrible storytelling, even for Lucas. I mean, Lucas just wouldn't do that, especially considering how heavy handed and over the top he was with Revenge of the Sith, with all the over the top acting and lines, the cheesy dialogue, and his full on love affair with the pulp scifi genre.

Given all the other scenes in that film, if that is what's actually going on, do you honestly think Lucas wouldn't have had the final scene of Vader's birth have Palpatine standing over Vader's head, a hand over his face, and literally channeling energy down into him, the other arm pointed at the sky, shouting at the top of his lungs, something like "GIIIIIIIVE ME AAAAAALLL OF IT!! YESSSS!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!! THE POOOOOWAH OF LIFE AND DEEEEEEEAAAAATTTTH ARE MIIIIIIIIINNNNNEEEE!!" and then jumpcut to Padme screaming on the delivery table, the monitors going bright red all of a sudden, and everyone going "what's wrong? why is she fading?", probably super imposed with a spectral Emperor's face laughing down at her? Possibly having Vader screaming in pain as the energy flows into him, in synch with Padme's screams as she dies?

I mean, we did see the same movie right? Palpatine wasn't cranked Up to Eleven with his Maniac Evil Villain trope characteristics, he went sprinting past Eleven hours ago, and was approaching Ludicrous Speed level of numbers on his campiness and overacting.

I am not sure how Anakin would have taken it if he knew anything fishy was going on. ;-)
We have seen old Palpy as master manipulator for 3 whole movies before, turning up his Maniac Evil Villian Overlord to 11 just in those moments when he get let it go and stretch his legs with UNLIMITED POWER! ;-)

And at that point in time, Lucas was broken by the fan-reactions, not wanting to take any risks anymore anyway. We actually get our Palpatine with a pauldron scene later in TCW when he haunts Yoda across half the galaxy. And the TCW final was totally a George Lucas episode, because the team around Filoni had no idea how to make that episode that George did ask them to do. In that episode Dooku is the connection needed to use the force against Yoda.

But you know, maybe someone should just ask GL someday.

46 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Right but that doesn't then translate to unspoken "So that means you are the secret Dark Force Frankenstein result, that we then stuck into the body of this slave woman on a dirtball in the middle of nowhere, instead of, you know, keeping you in our labs and doing further experiments on you, and grooming you from birth to be our servant, because we're the Sith and that's how we roll"

Who said he was in a lab?

Pllagueis was "so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life.”

Nothing about a lab at all. But, a very pointed comment to someone who was (known by the audience to be) an immaculate conception about someone who knew how to create life. Not terribly many dots that need to be connected there.

I'd consider it not impossible at least. The question of course remains "Why Tatooine?". Perhaps Darth Plagueis didn't trust his apprentice and was planning to replace him with a being of his own making, in which case he'd need to ensure that the two don't meet before his creation is ready - so he has him born far, far away. Sidious knows the creature exists, perhaps by looking through his master's notes after his death, but doesn't know where to find it - thogh cozying up to the jedi order of course makes sense when you're trying to find a powerful force-user to be. He can't find Anakin before the jedi do, but he can certainly screen promising padawans until he finds a fatherless one.

On 12/21/2017 at 5:44 PM, DanteRotterdam said:

See now these avatars are confusing me.

This is why you never pick an avatar from the franchise you discuss on here.