21 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

The irony is still strong with this one.

Let it go son

2 minutes ago, splad said:

Let it go son

I appreciate the advice, “dad,” but I’ll decide for myself whether or not I feel like calling BS on a double standard.

3 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I appreciate the advice, “dad,” but I’ll decide for myself whether or not I feel like calling BS on a double standard.

Hardly a double standard. I may be accused of being blunt or being taken as arrogant if you don't know me but I only give back what people sow if they get unpleasant.

So how are you feeling today?

5 minutes ago, splad said:

Hardly a double standard. I may be accused of being blunt or being taken as arrogant if you don't know me but I only give back what people sow if they get unpleasant.

It would seem, then, that you have a very loose definition of “unpleasant.”

From my experience, though, most self-appointed gatekeepers do.

3 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

It would seem, then, that you have a very loose definition of “unpleasant.”

Eye of the beholder and all that.

So what's on your mind?

4 minutes ago, splad said:

Eye of the beholder and all that.

So what's on your mind?

For one thing, that it’s pretty telling that you’ll respond to being called out on your hypocrisy, but not to posts that refute your attempts to spin events from multiple movies to fit your conclusions.

15 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

For one thing, that it’s pretty telling that you’ll respond to being called out on your hypocrisy, but not to posts that refute your attempts to spin events from multiple movies to fit your conclusions.

18 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

For one thing, that it’s pretty telling that you’ll respond to being called out on your hypocrisy, but not to posts that refute your attempts to spin events from multiple movies to fit your conclusions.

If you have a particular question in mind about something i have opinion-ed on then by all means lets roast that particular marshmallow.

@splad @Nytwyng

Would you perhaps take your personal arguments to the PMs?

6 minutes ago, Cifer said:

@splad @Nytwyng

Would you perhaps take your personal arguments to the PMs?

I'm trying to steer it back to topic:)

4 hours ago, whafrog said:

Is this something you can't do on your own? Or do you need to tell everyone else what to do?

I’m sorry you feel that way. I was trying to defuse a situation before people who might otherwise be friends say things that cause them to stop enjoying content that we are all here, obstensibly, to do. My suggestion, was intended as such, an option. I find that in online settings it’s easy to speak tough but harder to be kind.

6 hours ago, Sunrider said:

The "problem" is, that to become a true Jedi, you had to be a Padawan to one, then formally acknowledged by the Council and elevated to the rank of Knight. Given that Luke has been trained by two masters (however brief), there's still the thing with being formally recognized as Jedi Knight.

So, to the Jedi of the Republic Luke would be just a Rogue, nothing more.

There's one problem with your statement here. Luke was apprenticed to a Jedi Master; two in fact: Obi-Wan, and Yoda. And Yoda did assign him one final test in order for to become a full Jedi: Confront Vader. Once Luke passed that trial, he had become a Jedi.

So who else still wants to see Kylo redeemed?

I have a few reasons for holding out this hope:

--First and foremost, Driver is a great actor and I think he could pull it off.

--I want the amazing chemistry between him and Rey to be consummated in some form.

--He's the last living descendant of Anakin Skywalker, and I don't want him to die as a bad guy.

--For me, Star Wars is fundamentally about redemption and the faith that there is good in many seemingly evil people, somewhere inside them.

6 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

So who else still wants to see Kylo redeemed?

I have a few reasons for holding out this hope:

--First and foremost, Driver is a great actor and I think he could pull it off.

--I want the amazing chemistry between him and Rey to be consummated in some form.

--He's the last living descendant of Anakin Skywalker, and I don't want him to die as a bad guy.

--For me, Star Wars is fundamentally about redemption and the faith that there is good in many seemingly evil people, somewhere inside them.

I wouldn't be opposed to a redemption for him but honestly, we've seen that arc already (not with him obviously, but a redemption arc). But besides that, part of the reason I like Kylo is that he keeps showing us he's a bad guy.

I'd like to see him stand trial. That's something we haven't seen before.

I understand what you mean about Driver being a good actor and as Kylo, his chemistry with Rey is one of the more interesting parts of this trilogy.

The one way I'd wouldn't mind Kylo being "redeemed" is if he survives, stands trial, is convicted, and gets sentenced (to prison or execution or whatever) for murdering his dad, all the Jedi padawans & possibly younglings, Lor San Tekka, and the Jakku villagers; aiding and abetting the obliteration of Hosnian Prime and apparently everyone in that system; and so forth.

But unless they pull out a "and Snoke was just a puppet for the real villain all along" reveal, he can't have a Vader-esque redemption; there's no greater threat for him to kill to save Rey or someone else and die in the process. He is the big bad now. The best he could do is somehow blow up the next First Order super-weapon and most of its fleet, then commit suicide-by-Rebel via Finn, Poe, and/or Rey.

My biggest question about episode IX is, how are they going to handle Leia?

Just now, coyote6 said:

But unless they pull out a "and Snoke was just a puppet for the real villain all along" reveal, he can't have a Vader-esque redemption; there's no greater threat for him to kill to save Rey or someone else and die in the process. He is the big bad now.

That's the tough part, for sure: how do they redeem him when he's now the Supreme Leader?

But on the plus side, it's also what could make his story not just a copy of Vader's redemption story. If they figure out a way to do it...

25 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

So who else still wants to see Kylo redeemed?

I have a few reasons for holding out this hope:

--First and foremost, Driver is a great actor and I think he could pull it off.

--I want the amazing chemistry between him and Rey to be consummated in some form.

--He's the last living descendant of Anakin Skywalker, and I don't want him to die as a bad guy.

--For me, Star Wars is fundamentally about redemption and the faith that there is good in many seemingly evil people, somewhere inside them.

I'd go for that, if they don't chicken out. By this point he has outright murdered at least two people who were of no threat to him, one of them being his father (the other, Max von Sydows character who I'm sure has a name*, but I can't bothered to look it up). Snoke is a bit iffy. It's not exactly self-defense, even if Snoke was definetly a threat. I'm not sure exactly what part Kylo played in wiping out the Hosnian system but at the very least he stood by at let it happen. And that's beside leading what essentially is an armed coup.

What I'm saying here, he can't be let off scot free. He needs to die or stand trial, no matter how sorry he is.

Of course, Ben Solo meditating in a prison cell, finally at peace, could be a pretty interesting way to end the trilogy.

EDIT: *His name is Lor san Tekka. Recalled it just when I posted.

3 hours ago, Khazadune said:

I’m sorry you feel that way.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not suggesting you leave because I disagree with you *(see below), I'm reacting to you telling everyone else to leave. I just don't get the hubris of jumping into a 68 page thread and telling everyone to walk away, as if your little conflict is the defining moment.

* I actually haven't read much of what you guys are quibbling about, I don't have a stake in the argument, I don't know if I agree or disagree with you, and I don't really care. My comment was only in reaction to you playing board cop.

36 minutes ago, whafrog said:

My comment was only in reaction to you playing board cop.

If you truly believe that then you have been the one to misunderstand me but as the comment was designed to end pointless arguments instead of create them, I will leave you to your beliefs.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

So who else still wants to see Kylo redeemed?

I have a few reasons for holding out this hope:

--First and foremost, Driver is a great actor and I think he could pull it off.

--I want the amazing chemistry between him and Rey to be consummated in some form.

--He's the last living descendant of Anakin Skywalker, and I don't want him to die as a bad guy.

--For me, Star Wars is fundamentally about redemption and the faith that there is good in many seemingly evil people, somewhere inside them.

The actor is very capable of showing a wide range of emotions and the situation is a big possibility but this is all down to the writing. But what motivation would make him have a change of heart especially now that he has everything.

I must say I don't see a redemption for Kylo coming. He had the opportunity for it in TFA with Han and didn't take it. Then there was the opportunity in TLJ, the one that consciously referenced the RotJ finale and turned it on its head as if to rub our noses in it that no, Kylo is not Vader and not every alliance against the Big Bad actually means a change of heart, that not even love redeems absolutely. Of course IX can change all that, but from a dramatic standpoint, I think the writers have made as clear as possible that a redemption is not happening.

5 minutes ago, Cifer said:

I must say I don't see a redemption for Kylo coming. He had the opportunity for it in TFA with Han and didn't take it. Then there was the opportunity in TLJ, the one that consciously referenced the RotJ finale and turned it on its head as if to rub our noses in it that no, Kylo is not Vader and not every alliance against the Big Bad actually means a change of heart, that not even love redeems absolutely. Of course IX can change all that, but from a dramatic standpoint, I think the writers have made as clear as possible that a redemption is not happening.

This is a good point and I see your 'breaking bad' scenario cannot end in any good way for kylo. I know he didn't take the shot on his mother but I don't see a way back from killing Han

25 minutes ago, Cifer said:

I must say I don't see a redemption for Kylo coming. He had the opportunity for it in TFA with Han and didn't take it. Then there was the opportunity in TLJ, the one that consciously referenced the RotJ finale and turned it on its head as if to rub our noses in it that no, Kylo is not Vader and not every alliance against the Big Bad actually means a change of heart, that not even love redeems absolutely. Of course IX can change all that, but from a dramatic standpoint, I think the writers have made as clear as possible that a redemption is not happening.

Han was a necessary sacrifice, Kylo's way to beat Snoke. He suggested something like this even in TLJ when talking to Rey, while not trying to reveal his goal to kill Snoke. Redemption is still very much possible. Kylo can go either way still. Which was the whole point of having to completely opposite visions of his future. Just like Rey can still fall, Kylo can still be redeemed.

23 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Han was a necessary sacrifice, Kylo's way to beat Snoke. He suggested something like this even in TLJ when talking to Rey, while not trying to reveal his goal to kill Snoke. Redemption is still very much possible. Kylo can go either way still. Which was the whole point of having to completely opposite visions of his future. Just like Rey can still fall, Kylo can still be redeemed.

I'm not sure he can be redeemed. He can of course repent, but redeeming himself after killing his father who was only trying to help him? I doubt it. Still if JJ manages to pull it off, I'd be delighted, but I don't see how.

What a great popcorn munching, beer drinking thread.

Personally I hope they end the Skywalker legacy in the next movie. Time to move on. Kylo is not beyond redemption, though. If Anakin can be redeemed, Kylo can be too.

But what do I know? I actually enjoyed TLJ and TFA.