12 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

Disney storytelling has always been very much good/evil, with no ambiguity. It stems from their traditional focus on stories aimed at children. Star Wars Rebels made a half-arsed attempt at something in the "middle" with Bendu, but mucked that up badly. OTOH, we do see less "morally upright" Rebel characters in Rogue One. All of whom die heroically (except for Saw, who just dies). Rogue One even makes a point of having Cassian say that he's done things that he regrets in the service of the Rebellion. But I strongly suspect that's the only example of less-than-pure-good characters that we'll see out of Disney. I get the impression that Disney considers as canon only Force users at the polar extremes of good/evil. Even the scene in TFA where Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is having his "crisis of conscience" was pretty much telegraphed as to which way it would go. Did anyone in the audience really expect that Han would leave that catwalk alive? The story would have been much more interesting if Kylo had stayed dark, yet let his father live. But that wouldn't fit the canon of pure good / pure evil (and Ford's decades-long desire to have his character killed off).

That's true, yes, I should give Disney credit for allowing Rogue One to explore some of those themes. I was heartened when Cassian murdered that informant at the start.
I hope that more follows in Rogue One's style.

But yea, was anyone on earth surprised by that "shock" killing?
Similarly, I hope that Rey goes evil in Ep. 8. She's a very likeable character, and they need to do something interesting with her.

12 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

I'd like to see the inclusion of some of the ship designs from the The Art of The Force Awakens. There were some sweet concepts in there, especially TIEs and capital ships.

Speaking of the art book, there were a lot of really neat concepts that never got used. Jakku was envisioned as a very wet planet, Han Solo was designed with a beard and a long coat at different points, and there were a variety of vehicle designs in the book.

But we ended up with Tatooine Jakku, and Han was given an outfit very similar to what he worn in ANH. I'm actually surprised that Leia wasn't wearing something white and had her hair up in buns for the movie.

....Why would they fricking not do this?! It show that he had been through years, still a rogue but wiser and more jaded.

If Disney/Lucasfilm wants to do something interesting with Star Wars, removing the Jedi from the setting isn't the worst idea. Thematically speaking, Darth Vader, a former Jedi, and Darth Sidious, the architect of the Jedi's downfall, could only be defeated by a Jedi. With the threat of Sidious and Vader removed from the galaxy, there's no story reason for the Jedi to stick around. If this franchise is serious about Snoke and Kylo Ren being a fresh new villain, a new kind of hero makes sense. Instead of mashing up Arthurian Knights with Kurosawa, find something else to emulate.

I'm tired of seeing the same stories repeated in big-budget film franchises (cough Marvel Cinematic Universe cough) which is why I give Rogue One major props. I'll even go so far as to say that R1 is tied for first as my favorite SW movie. The creators realized that Star Wars can be a setting, and not just a story formula.

12 hours ago, Vestij Jai Galaar said:

It would have been nice to see him in that coat.....

I bet Nathan Fillion was using it that weekend.

18 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

A newer version of an old fighter, be it an X-wing, A-wing, standard TIE, or what-have-you, isn't all that exciting to me. The new corvettes, though, kind of make up for rehashes of older designs. Rogue One was exciting, because it was just crammed with new designs. I seriously doubt that TLJ will match that. Much as I might like for it to, I'm not holding out much expectation. Perhaps it's best to go in with low expectations and then be pleasantly surprised. TFA was seriously disappointing as far as new craft designs. Not much original thinking to be seen, beyond BB-8. Certainly nowhere near what we saw in R1.

Where were the new corvettes? I saw what looked like a fleet of a new Nebulon frigate class around 1:32 on the trailer, perhaps the Nebulon-Ks mentioned in Before the Awakening but nothing that looked like a new corvette to me.

Those things you think are Nebulon frigates are corvettes. They're quite a lot smaller than a frigate. You can see the cockpit at the front, and size the ship based on the cockpit windows and the laser cannon barrels. An actual Nebulon-B is at least triple the size.

More than likely, they are highly modified freighters of some kind.

3 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

Those things you think are Nebulon frigates are corvettes. They're quite a lot smaller than a frigate. You can see the cockpit at the front, and size the ship based on the cockpit windows and the laser cannon barrels. An actual Nebulon-B is at least triple the size.

You can see a TIE Fighter pass BESIDE one of the ships' cockpit. So you can see the Solar Wing comes behind the cockpit to give you a sense of the size.

6 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

Those things you think are Nebulon frigates are corvettes. They're quite a lot smaller than a frigate. You can see the cockpit at the front, and size the ship based on the cockpit windows and the laser cannon barrels. An actual Nebulon-B is at least triple the size.

In my experience trying to judge a sip's size from a trailer rarely works well.

And even if the ship we saw were smaller then the Nebulon-Bs that doesn't prevent them from being a successor to the Nebulon-B. In Legends the Nebulon-B had two successor designs, the Nebulon-B II and the New Republic New Class Modernization Program's Corona Class Frigate. Both designs were smaller then the original Nebulon-B class. Also the Class C Frigates which were the predecessors to the Nebulon-Bs were larger then the Nebulon-Bs.. So I don't see why a canon successor design to the Nebulon-B would be required to be the same size or larger then the earlier design.

I guess we will see when something iding the new class is released

Judging size is actually really easy when you have objects of known size in close proximity to the unknown object. In addition to the TIE solar panel being seen against the cockpit to place the cockpit's size in perspective, there is a shot of a laser turret at the bottom rear of the ventral "keel". We know how big such turrets are from similar turrets on other ships. Those two objects place narrow constraints on the size of the ship.

Blackbird888 is likely correct that these are highly modified freighters. Or a new corvette design ... from CEC. They have the trademark CEC light freighter cockpit design, which strongly hints at the origin of these ships.

Just because they vaguely resemble a Nebulon-B doesn't make them a successor to them. And shrinking a ship to less than a third the size would radically change its function within a fleet. A gunboat or corvette isn't a frigate, even if one made the gunboat/corvette look like a miniature frigate, and can't fill the same role.

No but we do know there is a successor to the Nebulon-B in this period and while the bridge or cockpit does look Corellian the overall design of the ship is more in line with a Nebulon sucessor then any Corellian design I can think of.

8 hours ago, RogueCorona said:

No but we do know there is a successor to the Nebulon-B in this period and while the bridge or cockpit does look Corellian the overall design of the ship is more in line with a Nebulon sucessor then any Corellian design I can think of.

Take a look at a YV-666 or YZ-929 and then tell me again how this new ship in TLJ isn't in line with CEC designs. Not all CEC designs are discs, but CEC is the only company with that style cockpit.

Q.E.D.

When did I say all Corellian ships were disc shaped? I'm having trouble thinking of any capital class Corellian designs that are disc shaped and even if the one third the size of a Nebulon-B estimate is completely accurate it would still be a capital class based on size.

But put the two ships beside each other and ask people if they think the new sips are related to the Nebulons based on the hull shapes and silhouettes

Maybe it is Corellian but there's no proof either way.

And again judging ship sizes from screenshots is not highly accurate. It has never been highly accurate.

Capital ships are no smaller than 500m (the size of the Gladiator-class), and arguably nothing under 900m is capital (anything smaller than a Victory-class). A Nebulon-B (which, BTW, has never been considered a capital ship) is 300m long. CR90s are 150m, and no one considers them to be capital ships, either. So something that's probably smaller than a CR90 is certainly not a capital ship. And even if it was the same size as a Nebulon-B, which it's not, it still wouldn't be a capital ship.

As for judging sizes from screenshots, the following site (created in 2005) shows a detailed analysis of the second Death Star: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ds/index.html . It was a detailed examination of screenshots that led to the "resizing" of the Executor SSD from the originally stated size of 8km (written by WEG with approval from LA) to the current canon of 19km. The art of examining photographs to judge the size of things has been an important aspect of military intelligence since before WW2. Applying the same techniques to frames taken from fiction films is straightforward. But I'm guessing that you have no background in photo analysis, else you'd not be making such ridiculous assertions.

Where did you get your definition for a Star Wars capital ship from? Because everything I've read on the subject says any ship over 100 meters in length in Star Wars is considered a capital ship.

You've read wrong. For SW canon, try reading this. Ships that aren't battleships (or in modern real-world navies, carriers) are not considered to be capital ships.

ShadoWarrior, that particular article says nothing about the lengths of capital ships in Star Wars. However, if you click on the Legends tag for that same entry, it does say that Capital Ships are ships that exceed 100 meters in length, not 900 meters. To quote:

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Size comparison of various capital ships

"Capital starships serve many functions: exploration, transportation, tourism, and – especially in recent times – war."

―Commander Elpfel, commanding officer of the Mon Calamaricruiser Wavesong.^[src]

Capital ship was a general term that referred to any armed military starship that had a length greater than one hundred meters. Ships of this class ranged from small and nimble corvettes like the Corellian Engineering Corporation CR90 corvette to titanic Star Dreadnoughts, such as the Kuat Drive Yards Eclipse.

That's no longer canon. Canon defines it as battleships and larger.

Which source actually says that? Because I've read or watched the vast majority of that page's source list and none of the ones I'm familiar with give an actual new definition for what is or what is not a capital ship

Also why would the New Republic be attacking the Empire's capital ships after the war ended like that page claims?

Read it again. All it says about battle ships and Star destroyers, is that those are examples of Capital ships. The article does not say that all capital ships have to be as large as a battleship or larger. It simply says that capital ships are large and ponderous. It does not give a minimum length. The Legends article does give a minimum length, and that is 100 meters. That is the only mention anywhere of a specific size requirement. Therefore, the 900 meter requirement you speak of is incorrect. There is no such requirement, not even according to that article.

My interpretation from the above screenshots is those ships aren't very large at all. They aren't corvette sized, let alone frigate. They are more like transport sized. Perhaps a very large bomber with the smaller B-wing being its inspiration.

Are we seeing the top of someone's helmet in the cockpit in the middle screenshot? That would support my claim of them just being large bomber or transport in size. If you think they are larger, you could go with that rear-facing ball turret at the bottom (see bottom screenshot) actually being large enough to fit a person. That would make it large transport or small corvette sized, but still nowhere close to the size of the Nebulon.

But, as already stated its difficulty to determine the size from a trailer clip and screens.

Of course nobody mentioned that half of the new ships in the trailer are colored red and the other half blue in the same way the rebel squadrons were colored.

Thanks for the images 2P51. Those ships are pretty short. I'd put them Sil 4 tops. Maybe a small Sil 5 based on FFGs Ghost debacle.

They're a bit too large to be Sil-4, based on their length as compared to the fighters flying nearby. Sil-5 seems about right.