2 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

I wish he would stop being so overly emotional. ?

I see what you did there...

13 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

You left out Poe and the bridge officer who helps them.

And considering she's been in charge for all of an hour or so by the time they enact their plan, it's ridiculous to criticize Holdo for the Resistance's lack of security.

Well, locking/guarding the door to the room with the super secret plans on display should perhaps be the first move after deciding that anyone is supposed to be kept out of the loop.

1 hour ago, penpenpen said:

Well, locking/guarding the door to the room with the super secret plans on display should perhaps be the first move after deciding that anyone is supposed to be kept out of the loop.

Yeah, Leia messed that up, true.

It was her who devised the plan and put it into motion, after all.

19 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Most famously: Why didn't the First Order just send a few Star Destroyers through hyperspace in front of the Resistance cruiser, or summon ships from one of their other fleets to intercept the cruiser from the front?

Because they were in full control and saw no need to. Why waste resources when you have to control a galaxy? Is this a serious criticism?! They were winning. With force. In fact, even Holdo shooting her ship through their command didn’t stop the decimation of the resistance. There is just one light freighter left.

Why didn't Holdo explain her evacuation plan to anyone? Why didn't she explain it to Poe when he mutinied?

Those are two questions.

The first; she did. There’s no reason to believe she didn’t. The second; do we share plans with mutineers now?!

A good commander would share her plans with mutineers if that were the only way to save her ship and everyone on board. Which is what any reasonable person in Holdo's position would have to conclude. Maybe Poe would carry out her plans if she told him, maybe not, but there was no chance if she didn't tell him. Unless she got lucky and Leia happened to wake up...

As for your first response, surely it would be no waste of resources to send ships ahead through hyperspace. A little fuel perhaps. Small price to pay for the total defeat of the Resistance.

Good news for Solo A Star Wars Story. The Maestro John Williams will score the movie. After decades of great scores and to many accolades to count Mr Williams will do his 9th Star Wars movie.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/john-williams-to-compose-solo-theme/

3 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

the only way to save her ship and everyone on board

...she defeats the mutineers by kicking a steam hose.

19 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

You really believe Mark Hamill, the guy who has always had his heart on his sleeve, would be curtailed by a company he no longer makes movies for? Or perhaps do you think that maybe he is tired of having his own words constantly misquoted, mischaracterized and abused?

Absolutely while Mark is a very passionate man and i'm sure the negative reviews about the movie hurt him i think he was absolutely honest about his dislike about the direction of his character. Sad for a 40 year wind up to end this way. But i do not think his role with Luke is done, JJ i think will add him in to be sure. So yes when the house of mouse saw his vocal regret i'm sure they had a word. Which is why the retraction came hot on the heels of @notmylukeskywalker comments.

3 minutes ago, splad said:

Good news for Solo A Star Wars Story. The Maestro John Williams will score the movie. After decades of great scores and to many accolades to count Mr Williams will do his 9th Star Wars movie.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/john-williams-to-compose-solo-theme/

Part of me is excited, but it felt like he phoned it in a bit on the Last Jedi score. It was almost all pieces we'd heard before.

3 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Part of me is excited, but it felt like he phoned it in a bit on the Last Jedi score. It was almost all pieces we'd heard before.

Agreed their was allot of recycling but i still love his work. I did want something more and i hope the inspiration hits him and we have another great score to remember. Their was at least one memorable theme off all the prequels and i know he not a spring chicken but i think theirs more left:)

7 minutes ago, splad said:

Absolutely while Mark is a very passionate man and i'm sure the negative reviews about the movie hurt him i think he was absolutely honest about his dislike about the direction of his character. Sad for a 40 year wind up to end this way. But i do not think his role with Luke is done, JJ i think will add him in to be sure. So yes when the house of mouse saw his vocal regret i'm sure they had a word. Which is why the retraction came hot on the heels of @notmylukeskywalker comments.

You are a conspiracy thinker. There is no reasoning with those.

4 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

...she defeats the mutineers by kicking a steam hose.

Sort of. They do take the bridge.

I think a good commander would decide it was worth it to try diplomacy with Poe. His heart was clearly in the right place, although he was being an idiot, and fighting him risked dividing the Resistance in a time of crisis.

Also, the whole Holdo plotline depends on the assumption that one person is sufficient crew to control a cruiser... In which case, why have a crew of thousands in the first place?

15 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

A good commander would share her plans with mutineers if that were the only way to save her ship and everyone on board. Which is what any reasonable person in Holdo's position would have to conclude. Maybe Poe would carry out her plans if she told him, maybe not, but there was no chance if she didn't tell him. Unless she got lucky and Leia happened to wake up...

As for your first response, surely it would be no waste of resources to send ships ahead through hyperspace. A little fuel perhaps. Small price to pay for the total defeat of the Resistance.

A good commander will do what's necessary to accomplish the mission.

Would they send additional resources to crush the last vestiges of armed resistance? Of course they would, what kind of F-ing idiot wouldn't? I mean aside from Hux and Snoke of course....

18 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

A good commander would share her plans with mutineers if that were the only way to save her ship and everyone on board. Which is what any reasonable person in Holdo's position would have to conclude. Maybe Poe would carry out her plans if she told him, maybe not, but there was no chance if she didn't tell him. Unless she got lucky and Leia happened to wake up...

As for your first response, surely it would be no waste of resources to send ships ahead through hyperspace. A little fuel perhaps. Small price to pay for the total defeat of the Resistance.

A good commander shares her plans with mutineers now?

I get a sneaking feeling you just need to be right about this. NO commander EVER would share information with a mutineer holding her at gun point.

And, there was no reason for them to send ships ahead. None whatsoever.

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

Yeah, Leia messed that up, true.

It was her who devised the plan and put it into motion, after all.

I'm fine with that interpretation too. Doesn't absolve Holdo for not fixing it, but I'm all for interpretations that spreads the blame around.

3 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Sort of. They do take the bridge.

For five minutes. In which they don't manage to execute their plan.

Then a woman who just got out of a coma casually takes down the mutineers.

3 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

I think a good commander would decide it was worth it to try diplomacy with Poe.

She did try that, his ego didn't let him hear her.

3 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Also, the whole Holdo plotline depends on the assumption that one person is sufficient crew to control a cruiser... In which case, why have a crew of thousands in the first place?

No, it depends on the assumption that one person is sufficient crew to get the ship to change direction and jump to hyperspace.

Holdo did fix it.

Too bad Poe’s actions had messed things up doubly by then.

6 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Also, the whole Holdo plotline depends on the assumption that one person is sufficient crew to control a cruiser... In which case, why have a crew of thousands in the first place?

One person can steer an aircraft carrier. Weirdly they have a crew of dozens.

Just now, DanteRotterdam said:

One person can steer an aircraft carrier. Weirdly they have a crew of dozens.

One person can't actually run every aspect of a carrier the way Holdo does.

Anyway, I understand why they made this choice. They wanted Holdo to make her sacrifice alone for drama purposes. I agree with that decision.

My original point was just that TLJ has more and bigger plot holes than Rogue One. Again, I don't think plot holes are a problem in Star Wars movies unless they are unusually bizarre. I don't mind the plot holes in TLJ at all, but people should acknowledge that they exist.

11 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Also, the whole Holdo plotline depends on the assumption that one person is sufficient crew to control a cruiser... In which case, why have a crew of thousands in the first place?

Some other good questions are, why leave someone on a ship running out of gas in the middle of nowhere except to film superfluous scenes of self sacrifice that don't actually make any sense?

Or, we are pulling our fighters back because we can't cover them? The 1st Order/Empire? From what? The command ship with the final remnants of armed resistance to us with the bridge that we just blew up? How's that a good idea other than to support a bad plot/script?

2 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

One person can't actually run every aspect of a carrier the way Holdo does.

Anyway, I understand why they made this choice. They wanted Holdo to make her sacrifice alone for drama purposes. I agree with that decision.

My original point was just that TLJ has more and bigger plot holes than Rogue One. Again, I don't think plot holes are a problem in Star Wars movies unless they are unusually bizarre. I don't mind the plot holes in TLJ at all, but people should acknowledge that they exist.

Not a plothole.

She plotted a hyper space route. Walked over to a steering station, pushed override and blasted through the warnings.

6 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Some other good questions are, why leave someone on a ship running out of gas in the middle of nowhere except to film superfluous scenes of self sacrifice that don't actually make any sense?

Or, we are pulling our fighters back because we can't cover them? The 1st Order/Empire? From what? The command ship with the final remnants of armed resistance to us with the bridge that we just blew up? How's that a good idea other than to support a bad plot/script?

1. Apparently they made sense and her staying on board served a purpose. Her actions made sure the resistance could land on Crait. Seems pretty cut and dry.

2. Why suffer losses if you can pick off the ships one at a time by showing restraint? They shot down two out of three ships that way already so why worry?

7 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

My original point was just that TLJ has more and bigger plot holes than Rogue One. Again, I don't think plot holes are a problem in Star Wars movies unless they are unusually bizarre. I don't mind the plot holes in TLJ at all, but people should acknowledge that they exist.

See, but I think plot holes that include no intelligible explanation why the F we didn't call our allies first, hyper jump somewhere useful, or that show peopel killing themselves when they could just let the ship running out of gas run out of gas and evacuate everyone, equals bizarre.

Just write and show the explanation. For example, in Empire we see Han yelling at Chewie about taking apart the Falcon when they're trying to leave, and then C3PO trying to, and eventually telling Han, the hyper drive got busted, which came after we see Stromtroopers shooting at them. That's writing and showing us explanations, which is what a movie is supposed to do. Not leave it to fans to argue about after the fact.

18 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

One person can't actually run every aspect of a carrier the way Holdo does.

Please list what you mean by "every aspect". What does Holdo do during her few minutes alone on the ship that you describe it as running every aspect?

It's mentioned in dialogue that to send a powerful signal they will need to do so from a base. The obvious implication is that the ship's transmitter won't let them reach their allies.

57 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

It's mentioned in dialogue that to send a powerful signal they will need to do so from a base. The obvious implication is that the ship's transmitter won't let them reach their allies.

Oftentimes “plot hole” really means “I didn’t catch that”.