26 minutes ago, Ireul said:

And I can think of a dozen films off the top of my head that were exactly as sold. All the prequels, TFA, and Rogue One, for example. So, I have a film franchise with marketing that has been pretty honest - scenes later deleted or reshot being the exceptions. So why wouldn't I trust the marketing for the next entry? IMO, trailers only lie because of 3 reasons: the marketers completely misread the film, giving it straight would ruin a big twist, or they're trying to sell crap.

And this trailer didn’t really lie, either.

”This is not going to go the way you think.”

28 minutes ago, Ireul said:

And I can think of a dozen films off the top of my head that were exactly as sold. All the prequels, TFA...

Nonsense. TFA had all kinds of twists. We didn't know there'd be a DS3, for example, though that's not exactly a twist I appreciate. Previews and trailers for Rebels are also notoriously deceptive. It's part of the game.

This is a non-argument, invented grumbling just for the sake of it.

The emperor was not even in the trailer, Boba looks like he would be actually doing **** and the final confrontation is just Vader and Luke.

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

I think he dropped it in the ocean when he was milking the sea cow between year 8 and 11...........

And it tainted the water. This explains why the milk was green. It all makes sense!

Double post. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

2 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

Double post. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

4 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

And it tainted the water. This explains why the milk was green. It all makes sense!

Or.......maybe he hid that saber somewhere?! ..............mmhmmm............o yah...........I said it.....

46 minutes ago, Ireul said:

And I can think of a dozen films off the top of my head that were exactly as sold. All the prequels, TFA, and Rogue One, for example.

Naw, no way. Here, let me cite you the relevant TV Trope passage:

• Quote

  • Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith had a trailer that showed shots of Darth Vader in his iconic costume, and showed what appeared to be various characters reacting to it (R2-D2 beeping wildly, Padme looking nervous, etc.). The trailer made many audiences think that the costumed Vader would have a large role in the movie itself. In fact, Anakin doesn't get armored up as Vader until the last few minutes of the movie; he interacts with none of the other characters except for Palpatine, and rather than being menacing, Vader shouts a wimpy "Noooo!" that quickly went into Internet meme history as one of the most laughable moments in film. There perhaps has never been a greater gulf between what a trailer promised and what the movie actually delivered.
  • The Force Awakens: Scenes of Finn wielding a blue lightsaber are heavily advertised in all of the trailers, heavily implying that he is an up-and-coming Jedi set to follow in Luke's footsteps. It's actually Rey who is groomed to become a Jedi, is shown developing Jedi powers, and has the final battle with Kylo Ren while Finn is never implied to have any force sensitivity- only using the lightsaber a few times in a pinch. Meanwhile Rey- the film's other main character who is far more central to the plot- was barely in many of the trailers, making the film's entire marketing campaign a total mis-direct to purposefully conceal the film's story.
    • The trailers made it look like Chewbacca blows up the bridge of a Star Destroyer using bombs. It's actually a Star Destroyer hangar bay control center, destroyed by Poe and Finn during their escape.
    • The trailers also prominently featured Captain Phasma, implying she was going to be a major villain alongside Ren and Hux, but she has about a minute of screen time and really doesn't do much except look cool.
  • Darth Vader only pops up twice in Rogue One, both effectively being cameos where he has little impact on the plot. But every **** trailer after the initial teaser shows Vader at least once, implying a much larger part in the story than he actually had. He even made many of the posters and marketing materials.

So yeah, Star Wars trailers have a history of lying.

12 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

The emperor was not even in the trailer

Hey now - Sheev was in the trailer for like 2/10th of a second! He was visible when he and Vader were walking away from the shuttle.

Just now, whafrog said:

Nonsense. TFA had all kinds of twists. We didn't know there'd be a DS3, for example, though that's not exactly a twist I appreciate. Previews and trailers for Rebels are also notoriously deceptive. It's part of the game.

This is a non-argument, invented grumbling just for the sake of it.

While not explicit, the first 7 seconds give it away.

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

The emperor was not even in the trailer, Boba looks like he would be actually doing **** and the final confrontation is just Vader and Luke.

OK, I rescind my argument.

3 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

And this trailer didn’t really lie, either.

”This is not going to go the way you think.”

Which could have meant anything, but OK let's go with that. Whatever, I'm just getting the same 3 lines repeated at me over and over, so I'm peacing out. Glad ya'll enjoyed the film, here's hoping IX is even better.

10 minutes ago, Ireul said:

While not explicit, the first 7 seconds give it away.

Not for me to be honest. Though it has the knights of Ren in it ... you know that force user group which is actually completely irrelevant for the movie

Don't understand why there's so much resentment on the "milking scene" - what do you guys think where your milk comes from? Ultimately, the milk you buy is meant for a calf. ;-)

Living as a hermit on a remote island means living off the land. I like the scenes, as they show how Luke survives without food capsules and protein rations. His fishing technique is interesting, though.

Anyone watching the trailers and expecting "X" and then getting "Y" now knows exactly how Snoke felt!
He was seeing the future with 100% accuracy - Kylo holding the lightsabre, turning toward his true enemy, preparing to strike.

He just misinterpreted the premise, and paid the price for making assumptions based on seeing things out of context!

Same as Palpatine. Same as Luke, for that matter, when he went racing off to rescue his friends on Bespin and they ended up saving him.

None of them had any wisdom when it came to interpreting the future. Yoda did: "Always in motion is the future", and "A prophecy which misinterpreted may have been" (or words to that effect).

58 minutes ago, Sunrider said:

Don't understand why there's so much resentment on the "milking scene" - what do you guys think where your milk comes from? Ultimately, the milk you buy is meant for a calf. ;-)

Living as a hermit on a remote island means living off the land. I like the scenes, as they show how Luke survives without food capsules and protein rations. His fishing technique is interesting, though.

Because I don't care? I know where milk comes from, 2 dairy farms in the family. Didn't go to see a Star Wars movie highlighting animal husbandry skills.

I'm not interested in what he wipes his read end with when he takes a dump either.

I didn't wanna watch him bake a cake out of space acorns and porg poop.

I couldn't care less about how he's taking good care of himself by eating lots of Omega 3 fatty acids from his fish diet.

That would be why I dog on the stupid scene so much, because I think it was stupid. Does this help you understand?

27 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Because I don't care? I know where milk comes from, 2 dairy farms in the family. Didn't go to see a Star Wars movie highlighting animal husbandry skills.

I'm not interested in what he wipes his read end with when he takes a dump either.

I didn't wanna watch him bake a cake out of space acorns and porg poop.

I couldn't care less about how he's taking good care of himself by eating lots of Omega 3 fatty acids from his fish diet.

That would be why I dog on the stupid scene so much, because I think it was stupid. Does this help you understand?

You must have hated the discussions of moisture farming in Episode IV...

Just now, Daronil said:

You must have hated the discussions of moisture farming in Episode IV...

I never gave it alot of thought honestly. If we are talking the tech in Star Wars the notion is silly. You've got ships as big as skyscrapers that can hover above ground so pretty easy to just go back and forth of grab hunks of ice to make a nice big ol lake/sea on anyone ol desert planet you like.

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

I never gave it alot of thought honestly. If we are talking the tech in Star Wars the notion is silly. You've got ships as big as skyscrapers that can hover above ground so pretty easy to just go back and forth of grab hunks of ice to make a nice big ol lake/sea on anyone ol desert planet you like.

Which is why it's generally a bad idea to try to apply real-world logic/physics/economics to a fantasy world.

It's like in D&D/Pathfinder. The amount of treasure lying around would destroy any local economy quick-smart. And with wizards and charmed monsters and flying mounts and rings of featherfalling, there'd be no point building Earth-type castles.

Same in Star Wars. That's why I just roll with it, whether its farmers discussing harvesting moisture and repairing the vaporator units on the south ridge by midday, or two equal-sized G-type stars in such close orbit that they sit next to each other in the sky and aren't, in fact, in such close orbit of each other than they don't stream off matter and go nova, or an ecosystem that seems to consist of wampas eating taun-tauns and...nothing else...or a hermit guy wandering around and getting his food while his prospective student annoys him. Kind of like Yoda cooking dinner while Luke harangues him...

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

If we are talking the tech in Star Wars the notion is silly.

Basically it is not. Because of just one little thing: Who would pay for such a transport? Those who could pay are in no need and those that are in need can't pay.

And that's one thing that's often overlooked, it seems. SW has macro and micro economics and basically the Prequels are built upon macro economics. That's why the Outer Rim is such a good refuge - there's almost no macro economics there, so whoever rules has not much interest here anyway.

TLJ uses this theme also. CantoBight is a center for macro economics, not just a Shadowport where single ships and a few crates of weapons are bought and sold. As the NR has been demilitarized, arms manufacturers had to find other customers.

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

Because I don't care?

Funny - to me, the scene makes the whole thing feel more "real". Like there are "refreshers" on starships and rations are currency on Jakku ...

2 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Didn't go to see a Star Wars movie highlighting animal husbandry skills.

To be frank I don't think anyone did.

To be frank again, that shouldn't matter.

Upon second viewing I stand by my initial assessment: a really good unsatisfying Star Wars movie. Kylo Ren remains my favorite of the new characters. I'm awfully forgiving of the faults of Star Wars movies but the plot holes in this one really push the boundaries of my suspension of disbelief. Overall, I enjoyed it. I may or may not see it again in the theater, not going to go out of my way to do so though...

I did notice on the second viewing that I think Luke is projecting the entire time Rey is on the island. When we first see Luke he is in his tan robes and he immediately goes off to his hut. He then is in his black robes for the entire time she is on the island and as soon as Rey leaves the very next scene we see Luke back in his tan robes. He also projects to the Resistance and Kylo a Luke in his black robes. Not entirely sure the significance there but noticeable...

What plot holes are we talking about?

On the trailer thing, there are two main reasons trailers often don't match movies.

1. Deliberate misdirection to avoid spoiling film and to stoke discussion.

2. Trailers are edited well before film is completed, so stuff in them can be on cutting room floor rather than the movie.

“I said to Rian, ‘Jedi’s don’t give up.’ I mean, even if he had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup. But if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong. So, right there we had a fundamental difference, but it’s not my story anymore. It’s somebody else’s story – and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective.

“That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well, in this version, see I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker. He’s not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well.” - Mark Hamil

He mirrors my feelings on the subject.

Rotten Tomatoes Says Last Jedi User Score is Accurate

https://screenrant.com/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-user-score/

There is a reason so few actors write compelling stories.

22 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:

Rotten Tomatoes Says Last Jedi User Score is Accurate

https://screenrant.com/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-user-score/

While saying that there is a lot more voting going on then usual and guessing at why that is the case.

Company stands by its product: big whoop.

We have seen horrible movies upvoted (justice league, suicide squad) and good movies downvoted for a while now and to everyone with half a mind it is pretty obvious what is happening.