Just now, StarkJunior said:The levels people go to in order to troll or hate on something because of 'X' reason is astronomical.
And again, people only bring up poll accuracy when they're upset over the results. There were plenty of people that hated TFA, and since it only takes a few per your own assessment I see no reason why they wouldn't have also trolled that film and yet it achieved 88% on RT. I find the explanation of fake accounts to be thin.
3 minutes ago, 2P51 said:At 4 in the AM? In the span of 4 hours?? Color me skeptical.
It's not 4am everywhere, just where you are. Plus there are people who operate at night as a regular routine.
3 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:It's not 4am everywhere, just where you are. Plus there are people who operate at night as a regular routine.
And there weren't equally zealoous haters of TFA and R1? Yet they scored 88 and 87 on RT? I find the assertion to be baseless supported by essentially no evidence at all, and again it only gets brought up by those upset with a set of results.
Edited by 2P51Empire Strikes Back was called a franchise killer and now it's the only film in the series that respected critics aren't embarrassed to say they liked.
The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones have been loathed for the best part of two decades now. Yet even they have their defenders and fans now.
Clone Wars was constantly bombarded with requests for cancellation. Once it was cancelled the fanbase clamours for its return.
The general public are fickle.
There will still be flaws it in and people who still will not like it but given time once time erodes the memory of the fanfic in people's heads that it failed to match the furore will be forgotten.
Edited by LithiumBlossom1 minute ago, 2P51 said:And there weren't equally zealoous haters of TFA and R1?
I made no comment about the zealous hate of fans at all, I commented about your skepticism at the idea that people would be doing something at 4am, simply because you weren't doing anything then. Nevermind that for a large portion of the planet, it was the middle of they day, and they could easily decide to make a post while you were sleeping. And that the fact that it's night, doesn't account for people like how I used to be for 20 years, and my 2 best friends, who work night shifts, and are very much active and doing stuff at 4am.
Considering the number of Kickstarter programs, that started and achieved their goals, and then well beyond them, in a matter of hours of becoming active, I don't find it that improbable that a wave of fans, probably in a time zone that just got done seeing the movie, went home and made a review of it.
Could they be fake, sure, could they be real, sure. I don't know, I don't really care either way. But your statement of "Well my butt was asleep so clearly nobody would be doing anything constructive at that hour anywhere else in the world" is simply silly.
I'm done with this whole conversation line. The community is clearly divided on this movie. I find 56% on RT to be far more accurate than a rating of A/95% on Cinescore. Desslok said he spent all morning arguing on FB over the movie so I find it impossible to believe that were a 95% positive fan rating even close to being accurate that would be going on, let alone this thread.
On 23/01/2017 at 6:50 PM, ShadoWarrior said:The villains in TFA were laughable. The actor playing Hux is far too young to be a senior general, and totally lacks the gravitas required for the leader of an enormous, evil army. Ren is pathetic and petulant. Vader didn't just have the fear of those around him, he also had their respect. Ren? Just fear of his tantrums.
That's kind of the point. They're a stand in for one of the biggest threats in our society today- petulant manchildren with ambition greater than their competence. They got where they are through a sense of entitlement, privilege and the patronage of third parties willing to use them for their own end. They are driven by their insecurities and supported by their techno-fetishm, blind to their own flaws.
Everyonein my generation knows a Kylo Ren. My country is ruled by General Huxes. They are among us and they are dangerously useless.
Edited by LithiumBlossom
How visible negative comments are tells you little to nothing about how many people are making them.
Also, bots and fake grassroots trolls have become normal elements of online political discourse over the last couple years. Why wouldn't anyone from movie studios to GamerGate and similar misogyny movements employ those tactics?
3 minutes ago, LithiumBlossom said:That's kind of the point. They're a stand in for one of the biggest threats in our society today- petulant manchildren with ambition greater than their competence. They got where they are through a sense of entitlement, privilege and the patronage of third parties willing to use them for their own end. They are driven by their insecurities and supported by their techno-fetishm, blind to their own flaws.
Everyonein my generation knows a Kylo Ren. My country is ruled by General Huxes. They are among us and they are dangerously useless.
I'm reminded of the way more or less any random dude could become a high-ranking officer in the various armies quickly cobbled together when Yugoslavia fell apart. Advancement in wartime is extremely fast compared to peacetime. Both young and old people with only a little experience get promoted quickly in such situations.
This movie is breaking up marriages and causing hurt butts in forums everywhere.
I am with the pirate @2P51on this subject. In my circles at least, it's at about 50/50. People seem to love or hate this movie. There is no in between. Kinda like politics in the US and those polls are so accurate also.
If you loved it, we will try to redeem you back to light side, because that's how the good guys roll. 
12 minutes ago, 2P51 said:I'm done with this whole conversation line. The community is clearly divided on this movie. I find 56% on RT to be far more accurate than a rating of A/95% on Cinescore. Desslok said he spent all morning arguing on FB over the movie so I find it impossible to believe that were a 95% positive fan rating even close to being accurate that would be going on, let alone this thread.
I’d suggest a little from Column A and a little from Column B.
By taking the turns it did, TLJ is - as you’ve noted - divisive. Anecdotally, listening to Order 66’s review episode, Dave and Hooly hated it. Then saw it again, and decided they quite liked it.
So, knee jerk reactions, with a more polarized response than TFA or R1, could spur spamming bad reviews, some born of genuine response from the first (for some, only) viewing, others from just trollishness.
Meh, I'm in-between.
I went with absolutely no expectations whatsoever. I'm not connected with this stuff any more. I thought it was better than Force Awakens, just, and was pretty much by the numbers. Typical Disney, played it safe with few surprises.
However, it does seem to have either 5 stars or no stars on most reviews I've seen. The fanbase seems to love it or hate it, as you say. That seems typical for 2017 really.
8 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:I’d suggest a little from Column A and a little from Column B.
By taking the turns it did, TLJ is - as you’ve noted - divisive. Anecdotally, listening to Order 66’s review episode, Dave and Hooly hated it. Then saw it again, and decided they quite liked it.
So, knee jerk reactions, with a more polarized response than TFA or R1, could spur spamming bad reviews, some born of genuine response from the first (for some, only) viewing, others from just trollishness.
Yes my wife has convinced me to go see it again. Hopefully this will change my opinion. I am trying really hard to like it. That's how much of a fan I am but I have my doubts.
My biggest issue (besides the depiction of the Force, which I've covered), is that the Finn and Rose side-plot was...not pointless, there was a point, but...they just failed. At everything. And I'm a fan of failure, in general. I want my heroes to fail sometimes, it makes it all the cooler when they eventually succeed. But nothing happened in that side-plot because of Finn and Rose.
They failed to find the hacker they needed and ended up in jail. They failed to extricate themselves from jail, and only escaped because they lucked into being tossed in the same cell as the guy who was waiting for a reason to escape. They failed to get themselves off of planet Casino, needing the same guy to rescue them. Once they did get to the Star Destroyer, they failed at their main objective. Then they failed to extricate themselves from certain death.
Of course, whenever Fate handed them an out to their current situation, they're great at taking it and running. But they never actually cleared any of the hurdles themselves. DJ got them out of prison. DJ got them off the planet. DJ got them onto the Star Destroyer. Admiral Dangerhair (Official Canon NameTM now) got them out of their execution, and only because they ALSO failed to vet the guy they hired.
In fact, thinking about it, Finn and Rose are more directly responsible for the death of 80%+ of the Resistance on the cruiser than any other named character, except obviously Hux (their hacker "friend" is never officially named, as far as I can remember). Them returning to the fleet with no one would have resulted in fewer casualties than coming back with DJ.
Now, I hesitate to make the comparison to Empire, because I was among the many, many fans praying to the Force that this wouldn't be another Empire, but while Han, Leia, Chewie and Co. (LLC, Inc.) were constantly in trouble in Empire, it was mostly because they succeeded BUT. They escaped Hoth alive! BUT they're being chased by a swarm of TIEs and Star Destroyers. They made it through the asteroids and escaped! BUT they're in a space worm. They made it out of the worm! BUT they're being chased again. They used a clever tactic and hid, escaping yet again! BUT there's a mysterious ship after them. They save themselves and solve their own immediate problems, then tackle the next when it inevitably comes up. They end up low because, despite how good they are, the Empire is just better. Not because they failed so bad they got most of their friends killed.
1 minute ago, Absol197 said:In fact, thinking about it, Finn and Rose are more directly responsible for the death of 80%+ of the Resistance on the cruiser than any other named character, except obviously Hux (their hacker "friend" is never officially named, as far as I can remember). Them returning to the fleet with no one would have resulted in fewer casualties than coming back with DJ.
Nah, that's Poe. Without him spilling secret plans over the radio within hearing range of some random hacker, the First Order wouldn't have known about the stealthed transports.
2 minutes ago, Absol197 said:snip
While I'm not a huge fan of that entire sequence with them on Canto Bite, they did accomplish one thing, though granted its a very minor thing, at least in the context of the movie we are currently watching. They inspired hope in those slave children, and sparked the fire of Rebellion in at least that one Force-Sensitive.
Sure, it didn't help the current events, but it was technically something they accomplished, that could have long reaching ramifications. That and smashing up the casino.
Just now, KungFuFerret said:While I'm not a huge fan of that entire sequence with them on Canto Bite, they did accomplish one thing, though granted its a very minor thing, at least in the context of the movie we are currently watching. They inspired hope in those slave children, and sparked the fire of Rebellion in at least that one Force-Sensitive.
Sure, it didn't help the current events, but it was technically something they accomplished, that could have long reaching ramifications. That and smashing up the casino.
I can accept that, and if it turns out to be a big plot point in a later film maybe it'll revise my feelings about that sequence. But that wasn't their goal, and they don't even know they did it, so while I can give it to them as a consolation prize, I can't give it to them as a full-on success. At least not at the moment.
2 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:While I'm not a huge fan of that entire sequence with them on Canto Bite, they did accomplish one thing, though granted its a very minor thing, at least in the context of the movie we are currently watching. They inspired hope in those slave children, and sparked the fire of Rebellion in at least that one Force-Sensitive.
Sure, it didn't help the current events, but it was technically something they accomplished, that could have long reaching ramifications. That and smashing up the casino.
And they found super donkeys that can smash down any wall. That's all the resistance needs. Get a herd of those, put jet packs on them and the war is won.
1 minute ago, Absol197 said:I can accept that, and if it turns out to be a big plot point in a later film maybe it'll revise my feelings about that sequence. But that wasn't their goal, and they don't even know they did it, so while I can give it to them as a consolation prize, I can't give it to them as a full-on success. At least not at the moment.
There is however a 50% off coupon for Porg hotwings though......
Just now, TrainedMunkey said:And they found super donkeys that can smash down any wall. That's all the resistance needs. Get a herd of those, put jet packs on them and the war is won.
I know, F Rudolph, those are way betterer...
6 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:And they found super donkeys that can smash down any wall. That's all the resistance needs. Get a herd of those, put jet packs on them and the war is won.
The one thing I did unequivocally like from this movie was the design of the new creatures. Those horse-cat things and the crystal foxes were amazing! I want a dozen! Of both!
8 minutes ago, Absol197 said:The one thing I did unequivocally like from this movie was the design of the new creatures. Those horse-cat things and the crystal foxes were amazing! I want a dozen! Of both!
You might wanna start with one each. The donkeys will knock down alot of stuff and with the other ones that's a lot of sparkly poop to pick up....
I wasn't a big fan of the whole Evil Rich People Planet sequence. I didn't see the point in Rose and while Finn had potential (I like the actor), the character never seems to realise it. He never gets any agency, and this whole sequence just seems inserted to give them something to do (and as Absol says, they don't even do it very well, even if they get to ride giant space donkeys).
The whole cast seems cluttered going into the last film; yes, the Big Three are now gone but there's a bunch of fairly pointless characters padding out the cast and we still have (literally!) the spectres of the old films too.
I have the horrible feeling that the next movie will be a giant retcon of this one, as in many ways 'Last Jedi' was a parody/subversion of 'Force Awakens'. If Abrams doesn't reveal Rey is a Kardashian, have her marry Finn and/or Poe and/or Ren, and have Darth Snoopy reappear as ludicrously as Maul did, then I'll eat my funny-shaped dice. With green giant space manatee milk.
Stuff Marcy liked:
a) Rey is a nobody! Anyone can be a hero, regardless of your surname and genes! (At least until Captain Lensflare gets his grubby little hands on 'Rerun of the Jedi' or whatever Episode 6.2 is going to be called).
b) Darth Snoopy gets pointlessly redshirted! Because Emperor 1.0 was bad enough in all honestly and we didn't need to see it again.
c) Cute Critters Are Cute.
d) The DJ character was at least very cool, if a tad pointless. He could have used a better name, though.
Stuff Marcy disliked (or at least felt was a bit Werewolf the Forsaken):
a) Mary Poppins. Nuff said.
b) All the Marvel humour. Poe prank calls Moff Ginger: 'You're a poopie-head! Your mother wears combat boots!'
c) Mind-Skype. Actually, I liked the concept; it happens in dreams in the MarcyVerse but I've always felt Star Wars should have proper telepathy. It's just that Rey and Ren didn't feel like they were some kind of living avatars of Light and Dark doing Alignment Seduction to the other. They sounded like a really posh gap-year student having a slight tiff with her edgelord boyfriend.
d) What happened to Darth BB8? Did I just miss that?
Edited by Maelora1 minute ago, Maelora said:a) Mary Poppins. Nuff said.
Yeah, my view at the moment is that it wasn't her doing. A certain powerful, trained force using son who was in the vicinity, already knew where she was, could sense her in the force, and had just decided not to kill her, saved her with force move.
9 minutes ago, Maelora said:I wasn't a big fan of the whole Evil Rich People Planet sequence. I didn't see the point in Rose and while Finn had potential (I like the actor), the character never seems to realise it. He never gets any agency, and this whole sequence just seems inserted to give them something to do (and as Absol says, they don't even do it very well, even if they get to ride giant space donkeys).
The whole cast seems cluttered going into the last film; yes, the Big Three are now gone but there's a bunch of fairly pointless characters padding out the cast and we still have (literally!) the spectres of the old films too.
I have the horrible feeling that the next movie will be a giant retcon of this one, as in many ways 'Last Jedi' was a parody/subversion of 'Force Awakens'. If Abrams doesn't reveal Rey is a Kardashian, have her marry Finn and/or Poe and/or Ren, and have Darth Snoopy reappear as ludicrously as Maul did, then I'll eat my funny-shaped dice. With green giant space manatee milk.
Stuff Marcy liked:
a) Rey is a nobody! Anyone can be a hero, regardless of your surname and genes! (At least until Captain Lensflare gets his grubby little hands on 'Rerun of the Jedi' or whatever Episode 6.2 is going to be called).
b) Darth Snoopy gets pointlessly redshirted! Because Emperor 1.0 was bad enough in all honestly and we didn't need to see it again.
c) Cute Critters Are Cute.
Stuff Marcy disliked (or at least felt was a bit Werewolf the Forsaken):
a) Mary Poppins. Nuff said.
b) All the Marvel humour. Poe prank calls Moff Ginger: 'You're a poopie-head! Your mother wears combat boots!'
c) Mind-Skype. Actually, I liked the concept; it happens in dreams in the MarcyVerse but I've always felt Star Wars should have proper telepathy. It's just that Rey and Ren didn't feel like they were some kind of living avatars of Light and Dark doing Alignment Seduction to the other. They sounded like a really posh gap-year student having a slight tiff with her edgelord boyfriend.
Annddddd your feelings on sea cows?.............
I get the evil rich planet/Disney can't make a film without inserting their politics, which is fine I spose although I kinda prefer being far far away and a long time ago from it all, BUT did it strike anyone as even slightly silly to be all down on weapon dealers and then you run off to hack a dreadnought so you can re-group and buy more guns to keep killing people? They did a great thing with Benicio's character when he is going through the holo sales ledger and points out that hypocrisy to Finn.
Edited by 2P51