4 minutes ago, Absol197 said:

Except...she never studied the Force.

Do we actually know that? I mean, she was alive for 40ish years between Return and TFA. And she apparently kept in touch with Luke to some degree. Is it really out of the realm of possibility that he gave her some basic lessons and she spent time over the years practicing from time to time? Perhaps on just the Force Move trick?

It doesn't seem that unreasonable to me, especially when they establish with Rey in TFA that an untrained person who has a strong connection to the Force can accomplish a lot by doing the standard "letting go" and "letting the Force flow through them". Also, Old Ben established in New Hope that the Force can sort of take control of you when you channel it, not just obey your commands.

I really didn't have an issue with the "She Force Moves herself to the ship". I was more having issue with the "Oh come on!! Absolute zero and zero atmospheric pressure doesn't just give you a little crystal glaze like a vampire from Twilight! She'd be sooooo dead!" I know she lived "Because Force", or at least that's what I'm assuming is their reasoning, because nothing else even remotely makes sense.

I also don’t get why the First Order (a nascent group) wasn’t extremely set back by the Starkiller destruction.

IMHO I think Star Wars has fallen in love with mega weapons and forgotten the simple humanity (and heroes) that are the heart of the franchise. I didn’t find myself rooting for any of the heroes. I was just left cold as pointless machine fired on pointless machine.

35 minutes ago, whafrog said:

This makes no sense. You already saw that movie and apparently loved it. Luke wasn't anybody in E4, just a plucky farmer with a family grudge and good on the stick.

You don't need the heroes to have a heritage.

Maybe he was 40 years younger, a different person with hope that his life could be just as exciting and awesome as Luke Skywalker's life became out of nowhere. And now he got the life of Uncle Own. Why would he get excited about Rey ;-)
I am just kidding, but indeed it seems that a lot of people have outgrown their youth and stop getting excited about the possibilities of change.

As my 17 year old son says when we were playing Edge.. 'You don't question Star Wars!'

Actually I think it’s fallen into the same trap as James Bond and forgotten that heroes need to personally suffer (sure Rose did a little bit at the beginning but we didn’t know her yet so the impact was muted. Think about the original series and how often the heroes got into life threatening situations? Now they can even be jettisoned into space and only suffer a minor headache

These people aren’t super heroes, and we need to see things at human scale.

Or as others have noted, this movie series isn’t for me any more. I think i’ll sit the next one out until I see a positive audience reaction...

Let me pop a bubble. This isn't a generational thing. My son-in-law is the 'new' generation and he used words like "terrible" and "hot ******* garbage", so yah, not a generational thing. This is nothing more than a movie some liked vs one some didn't, and that's all.

Also this notion because someone goes to a scifi space opera movie to see a bunch of cool space battles, sith lords and lightsaber fights etc, they're not entitled to be disappointed when the movie doesn't deliver is not reasonable I think. I go to an ice cream parlor to order ice cream, not spinach, and it's ok to be pissed when all the ice cream parlor has is spinach.

To say nothing of the fact it's pretty disingenuous of Disney, because I sure didn't see any promotional materials saying things like "See Last Jedi, it's going to deconstruct the universe and instead of focusing on space battles, lightsaber duels, and fighting in general, we are going to have way more dialogue!"

A good movie doesn't need anyone to defend it, because it's good.

In the end there's no reason for people to get fired up at each other here because it will all boil down to the box office.

12 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Not so much a spoiler as an idle thought:

How widely known is it that Kylo Ren is Ben Solo? And why isn’t the First Order using that as a propaganda tool?

”Even the son of two of the greatest so-called ‘heroes’ of the war, who studied under the fabled Jedi Skywalker, recognizes the folly of the New Republic and the rightful place of the First Order!”

It's possible that they are and we just haven't seen that yet. However, I'd say it ties into Kylo's "Let the past die" theme. Who I was doesn't matter as much as who I am now.

6 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I really didn't have an issue with the "She Force Moves herself to the ship". I was more having issue with the "Oh come on!! Absolute zero and zero atmospheric pressure doesn't just give you a little crystal glaze like a vampire from Twilight! She'd be sooooo dead!" I know she lived "Because Force", or at least that's what I'm assuming is their reasoning, because nothing else even remotely makes sense.

Oh Come on, that's star wars.

15 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

In the end there's no reason for people to get fired up at each other here because it will all boil down to the box office.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Delivers Second Largest Opening Ever

Quote

With an estimated $220 million, Star Wars: The Last Jedi delivered the second largest opening weekend ever behind only Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which debuted with $247.9 million back in 2015. Last Jedi got off to a strong start on Thursday night with the second largest preview gross ever of $45 million and became only the second film to ever gross over $100 million on opening day resulting in the second largest opening day ever, second largest single day, second largest Friday and joins Force Awakens as the fastest films to reach $100 million.

Love it or hate it, it looks like Disney isn't worried.

For that matter I play/run SWRPG for the battles. If I spent most of a session having my players trying to convince a crazy space wizard to train them. That’s just boring. Then again if I was GMing, I would just have the rest of my fleet jump to in front of the resistance. Roll new characters. Next time don’t try to run away at sublight speeds. The NPCs do have space radios.

2 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi Delivers Second Largest Opening Ever

Love it or hate it, it looks like Disney isn't worried.

The proof will be in weeks 2 and 3 and whether it has legs. A big opening was a given. China is 1/5/18, so that'll definitely contribute a spike in week 4. Fan rating of 56% is concerning for the Mouse I'm sure, because I'm sure there's plenty of people like me that saw TFA and R1 a couple few times and I won't go see this one again. I highly doubt I'm unique.

Agree. Star Wars making money is not news. Even The Phantom Menace made a s#!%! load of money.

3 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

The proof will be in weeks 2 and 3 and whether it has legs. A big opening was a given. China is 1/5/18, so that'll definitely contribute a spike in week 4. Fan rating of 56% is concerning for the Mouse I'm sure, because I'm sure there's plenty of people like me that saw TFA and R1 a couple few times and I won't go see this one again. I highly doubt I'm unique.

I wouldn’t go to see it again, unless I already had tickets and I still might not. My wife bought me a Last Jedi shirt for Christmas. Now I am kinda embarrassed to wear it.

1 minute ago, TrainedMunkey said:

I wouldn’t go to see it again, unless I already had tickets and I still might not. My wife bought me a Last Jedi shirt for Christmas. Now I am kinda embarrassed to wear it.

This post is gold. You have to use it! Wife's present can't be dismissed.

3 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:

I wouldn’t go to see it again, unless I already had tickets and I still might not. My wife bought me a Last Jedi shirt for Christmas. Now I am kinda embarrassed to wear it.

1 minute ago, Rithuan said:

This post is gold. You have to use it! Wife's present can't be dismissed.

Flip it inside out and tell her it's because you don't want to spill on, or wear out the logo....no need to waste a good shirt....

45 minutes ago, robus said:

I also don’t get why the First Order (a nascent group) wasn’t extremely set back by the Starkiller destruction.

IMHO I think Star Wars has fallen in love with mega weapons and forgotten the simple humanity (and heroes) that are the heart of the franchise. I didn’t find myself rooting for any of the heroes. I was just left cold as pointless machine fired on pointless machine.

Ahh, yet they were not nascent - the novels indicate that this plan was well under way much earlier in the timeline than we are privy to via the movies. To the superweapons point, a casual perusal of the EU would indicate superweapons as a consistent thematic element alongside the hero's journeyfolk.

39 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:

If I spent most of a session having my players trying to convince a crazy space wizard to train them. That’s just boring.

And that's where we diverge. Just a couple of weekends ago, one of the games we had was nothing but fluff like that. We didnt even notice that we forgot to generate destiny points because we never touched our dice. No, it wasn't convincing a broken disillusioned Jedi Master to come back to the fight, but it was just as character driven as that - and we loved it.

By the way, to the Hyperspace tracking thingie that the Bad Guys had? Check this out:

And this from Pablo Hidalgo:

Quote

The next technological terror in Hux’s arsenal is ready to be deployed—active hyperspace tracking. Originally explored in its infancy by the secret Imperial think tank known as the Tarkin Initiative, it has now evolved from theory to reality. Hux’s engineers have perfected the system.

That's kind of a cool easter egg. . . .

1 minute ago, Desslok said:

And that's where we diverge. Just a couple of weekends ago, one of the games we had was nothing but fluff like that. We didnt even notice that we forgot to generate destiny points because we never touched our dice. No, it wasn't convincing a broken disillusioned Jedi Master to come back to the fight, but it was just as character driven as that - and we loved it.

Same. For me those sessions are the best as well. Though the system at hand tends to encourage you to roll in those moments as well ... which I am actually not really a fan off. Social combat ... though maybe that's because I never found the right approach to that.

3 hours ago, whafrog said:

I didn't mind that. It's just Force Pull, and since she's pulling on the ship, she's the one that's going to move. I also don't think it was really a conscious effort, just survival instinct tapping the Force she already had. It's the way they filmed it that doesn't convey that properly, and yeah, does have that Mary Poppins look

Okay, but why? Why now? This is the fifth movie Leia's been in. Yeah, she went all super-special-Jedi in the EU, but in the films, she's never exhibited space magic before. So why now? What are they trying to tell us? Why'd they need Rey anyway? Will Leia be the one to train the new generation or something? Because breathing and flying in space is gonna come in useful, surely?

What does the film gain from -five movies in - telling us that Leia now has super space magic? I don't get it.

It's just... 'Legacy' again? "Screw you, Broom Kid, that's why you have a broom and not a lightsaber, because only the Kardashians get lightsabers!"

What is 'Star Wars' about anyway? Is it just a tale of special-snowflake author's pets who are Chosen Ones destined to win no matter what they want? Or is it 'anyone can be a hero' now? Because I'm getting very mixed messages.

Why did they show us this? There were other ways to take Leia out of the action so that Admiral Tumblr could tell off Poe for 'mansplaining' and 'toxic masculinity'.

1 hour ago, robus said:

IMHO I think Star Wars has fallen in love with mega weapons and forgotten the simple humanity (and heroes) that are the heart of the franchise.

I agree; but that also goes back to the 3rd film and the EU. Death Star 3.0 in Force Awakens was just the low point, the escalation war of having one that was bigger and badder than anything else. It's the plotline of a ten year old. And if I ever see another huge spherical maguffin again it will be too soon. Bah, humbug. But SW is about people for me, not superweapons.

13 minutes ago, Desslok said:

And that's where we diverge. Just a couple of weekends ago, one of the games we had was nothing but fluff like that. We didnt even notice that we forgot to generate destiny points because we never touched our dice. No, it wasn't convincing a broken disillusioned Jedi Master to come back to the fight, but it was just as character driven as that - and we loved it.

By the way, to the Hyperspace tracking thingie that the Bad Guys had? Check this out:

And this from Pablo Hidalgo:

That's kind of a cool easter egg. . . .

Good thing the Stormtrooper janitor knew all about the secret system...........again..........

8 hours ago, copperbell said:

I'm intrigued at all this talk about the Marcyverse!

Don't encourage me

I should probably start a thread or something.

For containment purposes, if nothing else...

6 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Good thing the Stormtrooper janitor knew all about the secret system...........again..........

Wait 'til you see the Universal Tree 'Stormtrooper Janitor' in the Rebels sourcebook!

The 25 XP Talents will make the Hired Gun's Signature Abilities cry themselves to sleep at night...!

1 minute ago, 2P51 said:

Good thing the Stormtrooper janitor knew all about the secret system...........again..........

Yeah they need to get some keycard system

33 minutes ago, themensch said:

Ahh, yet they were not nascent - the novels indicate that this plan was well under way much earlier in the timeline than we are privy to via the movies. To the superweapons point, a casual perusal of the EU would indicate superweapons as a consistent thematic element alongside the hero's journeyfolk.

Ok i’m not reading the novels, but still it was a huge setback

On the mega ships, sure but they’re really cool settings rather than things that do stuff. The Death Star provided a lot of cool scenes, cloud city too. The dreadnought? Just a big blob of hit points. Snokes ship? Not much more than a weird throne room.

When we actually get to a world, Finn and Rose’s trip to that gambling world was so superficial (and especially ridiculous given the predicament) I don’t think we’ve had anything that crazy before and it gave them very little character development - SW becoming Dr Who with spacey-wacey wobbly-wobby stuff

1 hour ago, Absol197 said:

Super-Leia was supposed to show that, even though she didn't study the Force, her strong connection to it (because she's a Kardashian Skywalker) was able to save her. Except...she never studied the Force. It's understandable she might get feelings and have that uncanny knowledge of events, especially when they involve her family and those close to her (as we saw in TFA). But Move strong enough to pull her from the void of space into the ship before she melts or explodes or whatever it is vacuum does to a person (suffocates and falls unconscious at the very least, right)? That's something that would be insanely useful, and something we never see fully-trained Jedi doing at any point.

Now granted, that's because this is literally the first time we've seen someone floating in space before in a Star Wars movie, but the reason for that is because every character, Jedi Masters included, have known the instant you're out of a ship, you're a cooked turkey. JJ gave an interview about Leia and the Force for TFA, and he stated that while she could have followed that path and been a powerful Force-user, she chose not to, and went on to political and military leadership as her path, instead. She's a Diplomat with the Force-Sensitive Emergent spec, not a Guardian. (I know that RPG terms have no real place when discussing the movies in and of itself, but it's the concept, not the exact mechanics.)

I get 'how' but I'm still not sure 'why'...

Consulars have a kind of 'survive in a vacuum' power and flying is only Move. By FFG rules, it's a no-brainer. But so is Spaceship Skittles and we never see that in the movies.

I'm not sure what they were trying to say, in the movie, as to why Leia apparently can now use space magic? Is she going to train Rey now or something? Why are they telling us this? I get they have to take Leia out for a bit so Lady Dangerhair and Poe can have the conversational equivalent of Hate Sex. But why do it this way, and show us Leia's super-powers now?

For a film called 'Last Jedi', there seem to be an awful lot of them about...

1 hour ago, Absol197 said:

Oh, and by-the-by, Marcy: it was incredibly rude of you to post here before I'd seen the movie! How am I supposed to creepily post-stalk you if I can't go into the main thread you're posting in ! Poor form, poor form all around!*

* Obviously, this line is meant entirely in jest, but I wanted a disclaimer, just in case.

Sowwy

<makes sad Porg face>

3 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Except I don't think Finn or Rose learned anything from their mistakes from their plot thread.

Finn starts out just wanting to protect Rey, and doesn't give a **** about the Resistance (and the wider galaxy, by implication). His experiences with Rose on Planet Unchecked Capitalism and with the hacker teach him about inequality in the galaxy, and that ultimate victory depends upon seeing and considering the bigger picture.