3 hours ago, R5D8 said:

Why do they keep needing to invent new tech? The ability to track something through hyperspace, couldn't that have been handled with a spy on board the cruiser?

Not new tech, even the grand inquisitor already had hyperspace tracker that literally worked in hyperspace. Hyperspace trajectories are an old thing as well and Rose and Finn both were quick to realize how this new tech works, making it not something brand new, but rather an evolution of star wars tech. That was good.

Now from the world building view hyperspace torpedos should be totally now a thing, so that was a huge, huge mistake imho, but something they needed to do for timing reasons. A total deus ex machina solution to move the plot forward to the ground. I hope they just forget it and never use it again, maybe with a given reason on top.

No, because well you need a drive and enough fuel to make it work. The expense required and the fact you need a hyperdrive along with a ton of fuel makes it an unlikely weapon.

The smallest Hyperdrive is designed for a fighter.

The other problem with a torpedo is size matters and in this case a hyperspace torpedo unless it has the mass of a star figher is unlikely to take down the shields or inflict serious damage on the hull of a Capitol ship.

Interesting article, at least for me. Tastes may vary. http://www.roosterteeth.com/post/51552869

24 minutes ago, Decorus said:

The smallest Hyperdrive is designed for a fighter.

I just hope Episode IX doesn't start until a few years or at least several months after Episode VIII to give the Resistance time to rebuild its fleet and forces or at the minimum gather the remnants of the New Republic military or Stars Wars episode IX will have very little warfare in it.

So as I currently understand it...

Sorry for the above it should have posted yesterday my tablet is having problems!

Whilst it is EU therefore Legends the Emperor used Hyperspatial Torpedoes in Dark Empire just saying the First Order should have been using that rather than SKB!

4 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

You might mistake nostalgia for star wars, but feel free to correct me on that. Triggering cheap emotional reaction by using nostalgia / intertextuality != star wars. And actually the film still had plenty of intertextuality, just a lot more subtle than this blatant, incredible cheap way TFA was using. Same for the musical themes and clues, more subtle and often very quiet in the background, but still there.

It's not about nostalgia, exactly, it's about genre conventions. Star Wars is a genre all to itself. I should say that I did love the many innovations The Last Jedi made in terms of story, I just didn't like the changes to the atmosphere that previously defined Star Wars.

The analogy I've been using to explain this to people is Blade Runner. If Blade Runner 2049 had been as much of a stylistic departure from the original Blade Runner as Last Jedi was from the original Star Wars, that would've been a problem, for the exact same reason. It had to reproduce the atmosphere of the original in order to be a good sequel. Unlike most movies, Blade Runner has an overall feel that you just can't mess with. Star Wars is the same.

4 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

The biggest capital ship torpedo is larger than a fighter. And apparently less destructive than just going kamikaze hyperdrive, because that one MonCal cruiser did not only take out a larger section of Snoke's flagship, but as well most of the support fleet in one go. A single T-65 should be able to take out an imperial-class star destroyer in one jump.

Basically they just went overboard with the ramming. From a world building perspective a large mistake. I am still fine with them doing it as the movie simply had not the time to deal in a more reasonable way with the problem at hand. They just should never touch it again and maybe give some hand waving explanation why this normally does not work with such great effect. Could be at the start of the next movie, just a one-liner about the rebels being conveniently lucky again, just like the last time when they hit some reactor and spreading hypermatter all over the place with this stunt.

In general the whole ending played out conveniently lucky for the rebels, but I am fine with that. ;-)

There isnt any reason to believe that an Xwing could take out an ISD by ramming while jumping. A Mon-cal cruiser is like 9 orders of magnitude bigger than an X-wing.

As a matter of fact there are alot of reasons to believe that the case in Last Jedi is a very special case. The crew of Snoke's ship knew that the Cruiser was prepping to go into hyper, but chose to believe that it was trying to escape, not kamikaze. Had they realized in time what was going on, they would have simply positioned alot of fire between the ships and blown up the cruiser before it struck Snoke's ship.

I am not really disagreeing with your take on it tho. If they had only had Snoke's ship there, it would not have been too overboard in my view. Just a special case in a special circumstance.

So, after thinking about it, I have even more reasons to take umbrage with the canon story line now.

Basically, all forward progress of any novels or comics or games or anything is halted until Episode 9 comes out. Unless they make a very early decision to make a time skip of a few years and plan accordingly, and I really doubt they're going to force the next film to accommodate the side material. All the material they will release is just going to be backstory and prequel happenings. Nothing really new or different. A Snoke novel is almost assured. Thrawn: Alliances will be good. Rebels is wrapping up. Solo is a thing that exists, which will also get a bunch of tie-in material that covers things we already know the outcome to. All of that is backstory and things that we already know the ultimate outcome to, but it doesn't move the story forward.

So, a movie with good acting and interesting scenes and different ideas is pretty much ruined by the fact that nothing is actually happening.

Anyone else so glad that Rey’s parents were nobodies?

15 minutes ago, Yaccarus said:

Anyone else so glad that Rey’s parents were nobodies?

I doubt they will leave it that way, but I was.

Was someone really pissed at JJ or something?

I'm getting the odd feeling a fan of Lost saw what he created in TFA and said "Not AGAIN!" because I'm having difficulty believing they had problems finding someone with the imagination to make use of that stuff and answer them in a way that avoids the complications of burning everything down because they couldn't care less!

So what happened?

7 minutes ago, copperbell said:

Was someone really pissed at JJ or something?

I guess. The whole movie trash most of the possibilities left in the TFA. That's a bold move (starting for throwing Anakin lightsaber). Now, the movie wasn't that good (IMHO). So in the end... it was bold move to nowhere.

2 hours ago, korjik said:

There isnt any reason to believe that an Xwing could take out an ISD by ramming while jumping. A Mon-cal cruiser is like 9 orders of magnitude bigger than an X-wing.

The 60 kilometers Supremacy is already already 1.5 magnitudes bigger than an ISD. The total area of destruction caused was another magnitude on top, so we are talking about at least 2.5 magnitudes difference in destructive power. Now The Raddus is 3km in length, that's 240 times smaller than the 12.5m x-wing, or iirc 2.24 orders of magnitudes (12.5 x 10 x 10 x 2.4).

As you we both agreed, if the Raddus would have taken out only parts of the Supremacy things would have looked a lot better to rationalize things and set them into context to the established world, but they simply went over the top. Nothing that spoiled the movie for me, nothing that can not be fixed by some special circumstances based on the Supremacy design, but certainly odd. Taking out the giant star destroyers around the flag ship was just too much. Looked stunning, was a convenient plot device, but should not be taking serious. Actually, it is so over the top that I have little problem with just ignoring the implications for the world.

2 hours ago, Swordbreaker said:

So, a movie with good acting and interesting scenes and different ideas is pretty much ruined by the fact that nothing is actually happening.

Wow, that's an odd definition of nothing happening. Tons and tons of stuff happened. Simple, basic move the plot forward stuff like Luke deciding that the torch has been handed over and that his time is done, Rey discovering her sense of purpose and moving on from the past, Kylo moving on from the past but unable to get out from under the shadow of his heritage, and the passing of the old guard to the new. Then you have all new themes and approaches to the universe and the setting, how the movie upsets the Star Wars paradigm - which is huge.

It's a very challenging movie. People will come out of it thinking "Well, I had this image of these characters in my head and this film ruined it" - but the whole point of the film is the removal of the legend, the sense of seeing the man behind the curtain. You really have to consider what the movie is trying to say - which is weird coming from a Star Wars flick.

2 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

Anyone else so glad that Rey’s parents were nobodies?

I think it would be awesome if true, but I very much doubt it will stick.

It will just turn out to be one of the many things Ren is lying about.

I think it would be a really good thing because we'd actually have someone who is just powerful and awesome randomly, instead of being powerful and awesome because of their surname and family tree.

But I fear that's the 'big reveal' of the next movie, and she turns out to be a Kardashian all along.

(which will also be pretty silly that none of the Big Three actually told her while they were still alive)

On ‎15‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 5:35 AM, Decorus said:

Also flying with move is Canon. Leia does a really nifty move/protect combo.

At this point, I think the 'canon' concept of The Force is just some plot-focused, omni-power space-magic that does whatever the plot needs it to do right at that moment.

There were at least three separate Werewolf The Forsaken moments in that film that made us think 'huh, that's a thing now?'

13 minutes ago, Maelora said:

I think it would be a really good thing because we'd actually have someone who is just powerful and awesome randomly, instead of being powerful and awesome because of their surname and family tree.

This is partly why I'm hoping Finn and Poe won't be Force-sensitive. I've seen several arguments for their inclusion in the space wizard club.

1 minute ago, Maelora said:

I think it would be awesome if true, but I very much doubt it will stick.

It will just turn out to be one of the many things Ren is lying about.

If they roll back Rey's parentage I will be superpissed. The idea that it's not where you come from but who you are that matters is central to the movie. The whole end with the Broom Kid pivots around that notion.

I don't see this as one of Kylo/Snoke's lies because they only confirmed what Rey saw in the hall of mirrors. She didn't see the past, she didn't get a "The darkness is in you" vision like Luke in the tree did. She saw herself, that she had everything she needed right there and then.

Just now, JorArns said:

This is partly why I'm hoping Finn and Poe won't be Force-sensitive. I've seen several arguments for their inclusion in the space wizard club.

I know this goes back a bit, but one of the things that started my 'falling out of love' with Star Wars was when they made characters like Lei and Kyle Katarn into Jedi.

There was no good reason as to why they needed to be Jedi, they were fine without it, but it just seemed to come with their 'important character who isn't Han Solo' status.

"Okay, Here's your plot-armour, and your glowstick and your Force stuff. You are now an officially Important Character"

I'll be happy if nothing else they round table the next plot/script and exert some effort to plug a plot hole or two.

19 minutes ago, Desslok said:

If they roll back Rey's parentage I will be superpissed. The idea that it's not where you come from but who you are that matters is central to the movie. The whole end with the Broom Kid pivots around that notion.

I agree Desslok, but Star Wars often seems to be about the opposite. The message that SW has for Broom Kid isn't a kind one:

'Hey kid, wanna be a Hero and a Chosen One? Well you can't, because you have the wrong name, which is why you have a broom instead of Space Magic!'

When we set up the MarcyVerse, we had weeks of brainstorming about the things we wanted to keep, and the things we didn't (and you thought it was all about Naykid Laydeez! )

The three most hated things were as follows:

3) Sacrifice is cheap (nobody important ever really seems to permanently die)

2) Redemption is cheap ('falling to the dark side' seems to be a bad day where you dress in black, listen to emo music, and then get instant forgiveness no matter what you've done)

1) The Galaxy Belongs To The Kardashians (it doesn't matter about 'doing the right thing'. What matters is your surname, your family tree, your bloodline, and your space-germs)

Yes, Your Mileage May Vary, as they say. But these were my group's complaints. And alas, every single one of them turns up in 'Last Jedi'.

Not that it was a bad film. It was enjoyable enough; a busy action movie with some good moments (as long as you don't think too hard about it). But it stuck solidly to all the old tropes.

Having Rey be awesome because of who she is, not who her parents were, would feel like an important 'passing of the torch' to me.

But the fact that Darth Snoopy called her 'young Rey' instead of by her surname pretty much lampshades that she's going to be a Kardashian anyway, and hence the Chosen One because of her DNA rather than her individual qualities.

And that seems to be a sucky message to send to people, so I honestly hope you're right.

Just got back from seeing it; and I've come to the realization that, going forward, these movies are probably going to have about the same level of appeal for me as adventure modules do: fun to look at, plenty of good elements which make for a good source of inspiration and ideas for my campaign, but as a whole... just a big pile of 'meh'.

9 minutes ago, Maelora said:

2) Redemption is cheap ('falling to the dark side' seems to be a bad day where you dress in black, listen to emo music, and then get instant forgiveness no matter what you've done)

This is my biggest beef with the old expanded universe (I'm looking at you Kyp). I'd like to see Kylo pay for his crimes, maybe even tried in a court.