1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

One person can't actually run every aspect of a carrier the way Holdo does.

Well, thank god she doesn't have to run every aspect of a carrier. She just has to point it towards the enemy and turn on the hyperdrive.

2 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Holdo did fix it.

Too bad Poe’s actions had messed things up doubly by then.

Not sure what Poe's mutiny messed up beyond some vented steam and a busted door. It had pretty much no effect on anything.

Does anyone know why Holdo chews out Poe when he tells her about his plan? Right before he mutinies? She says something about having endangered the fleet, but she doesn't know that he has. Even Poe doesn't know that he has. He's as clueless as everyone else until the first shuttle is hit. So why was Poe's (actually, Finn's and Roses's that they roped Poe into) plan a danger to the fleet, you know apart from the little opsec slip up nobody knew about?

Wouldn't a more reasonable reaction be "You've put those people in danger. Call them back, we have a better plan."?

Wait so how did DJ find out about the cloaked ships if Poe, Finn & Rose knew nothing about it?!

Duplicated post

1 minute ago, penpenpen said:

Not sure what Poe's mutiny messed up beyond some vented steam and a busted door. It had pretty much no effect on anything.

Does anyone know why Holdo chews out Poe when he tells her about his plan? Right before he mutinies? She says something about having endangered the fleet, but she doesn't know that he has. Even Poe doesn't know that he has. He's as clueless as everyone else until the first shuttle is hit. So why was Poe's (actually, Finn's and Roses's that they roped Poe into) plan a danger to the fleet, you know apart from the little opsec slip up nobody knew about?

Wouldn't a more reasonable reaction be "You've put those people in danger. Call them back, we have a better plan."

He endangered the fleet by getting the whole bomber squadron wiped out killing the dreadnaught. He slowed them down by first baffling them with Bantha poodoo, then dazzling them with his assault - he was supposed to split after that, so all the ships could leave. Instead, he had the fighters and bombers attack the dreadnaught. While it was destroyed, all the bombers and a bunch of the fighters were destroyed, and the dreadnaught was replaced by the even bigger Supremacy.

If he'd just shot up the dreadnaught's turrets a bit, then high-tailed it back to the rest of the ships, they could've escaped with the bombers and fighters intact. And maybe then they would have been able to fight off Kylo's TIE assault - since the bombers don't look like they'd have fit inside the Raddus, so they would've been outside to shoot at the TIEs. They wouldn't have gotten Kylo, of course, but they might've taken out the other fighters before they blew the bridge to **** (since Kylo hesitated when he sensed his mom's presence). The Resistance fighters wouldn't have been wiped out, either.

So, yeah, kind of endangered the fleet in order to kill the enemy. He forgot the mission was "survive to fight another day."

1 minute ago, coyote6 said:

He endangered the fleet by getting the whole bomber squadron wiped out killing the dreadnaught. He slowed them down by first baffling them with Bantha poodoo, then dazzling them with his assault - he was supposed to split after that, so all the ships could leave. Instead, he had the fighters and bombers attack the dreadnaught. While it was destroyed, all the bombers and a bunch of the fighters were destroyed, and the dreadnaught was replaced by the even bigger Supremacy.

If he'd just shot up the dreadnaught's turrets a bit, then high-tailed it back to the rest of the ships, they could've escaped with the bombers and fighters intact. And maybe then they would have been able to fight off Kylo's TIE assault - since the bombers don't look like they'd have fit inside the Raddus, so they would've been outside to shoot at the TIEs. They wouldn't have gotten Kylo, of course, but they might've taken out the other fighters before they blew the bridge to **** (since Kylo hesitated when he sensed his mom's presence). The Resistance fighters wouldn't have been wiped out, either.

So, yeah, kind of endangered the fleet in order to kill the enemy. He forgot the mission was "survive to fight another day."

While true, I'm pretty sure that's not what Holdo was referring to just before he mutinied, as he had already been called out on that twice.

7 minutes ago, copperbell said:

Wait so how did DJ find out about the cloaked ships if Poe, Finn & Rose knew nothing about it?!

Poe DID know about them. DJ overheard Poe telling Finn & Rose over the com.

23 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Not sure what Poe's mutiny messed up beyond some vented steam and a busted door. It had pretty much no effect on anything.

Because he in the meantime had given up Holdo’s plan to Finn with a turncoat listening in.

He literally gave her plan up to the First Order.

7 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Because he in the meantime had given up Holdo’s plan to Finn with a turncoat listening in.

He literally gave her plan up to the First Order.

Nope. Pretty sure he did that before starting the mutiny. I could be wrong, but I specifically looked for it on my second viewing.

2 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

You are a conspiracy thinker. There is no reasoning with those.

I think it's rather elementary and not a large leap to a conclusion maybe a small hop. Less so than your supposition that he had been having his 'words constantly misquoted, mischaracterized and abused' When he has gone on the record multiple times that he had vocally fundamentally disliked the direction his character was being taken. That's fact and on the record. I can show you the videos...again!

12 minutes ago, splad said:

I think it's rather elementary and not a large leap to a conclusion maybe a small hop. Less so than your supposition that he had been having his 'words constantly misquoted, mischaracterized and abused' When he has gone on the record multiple times that he had vocally fundamentally disliked the direction his character was being taken. That's fact and on the record. I can show you the videos...again!

You could. I would watch them and we would be at odds about the conclusion.

You just stick to your narrative and I’ll enjoy reality! Thanks!

15 minutes ago, splad said:

I think it's rather elementary and not a large leap to a conclusion maybe a small hop. Less so than your supposition that he had been having his 'words constantly misquoted, mischaracterized and abused' When he has gone on the record multiple times that he had vocally fundamentally disliked the direction his character was being taken. That's fact and on the record. I can show you the videos...again!

But he has also gone on the record that neither Disney nor Lucasfilm told him to shut up.

28 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

Nope. Pretty sure he did that before starting the mutiny. I could be wrong, but I specifically looked for it on my second viewing.

Even if you would only register him having her at gunpoint as mutiny then still the damage of it happened during this timeframe.

2 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

But he has also gone on the record that neither Disney nor Lucasfilm told him to shut up.

Yeah, but they were holding his family hostage and had a gun to his head! Or... he actually meant to say that on his own private channel.

15 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Yeah, but they were holding his family hostage and had a gun to his head! Or... he actually meant to say that on his own private channel.

No no, see, it's only the truth when it's negative, or when it fits the preconceived story I want to push.

11 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Yeah, but they were holding his family hostage and had a gun to his head! Or... he actually meant to say that on his own private channel.

They were also holding your poor argument hostage as well. Needless to say it is cemented with Rotten tomatoes etc that ratings have continued to fall on audience reviews, leading to passionate discourse to what was good or not on this challenging movie. I enjoyed the second viewing better after the initial viewing and did see better what Rian was trying to do and why to me it failed on several key points. Either way i think the newer Star Wars movies will be aimed at newer audiences rather than cater to the original trilogy holdouts. So we will see more irreverent humour and less of the gravitas the original trilogy.

3 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

No no, see, it's only the truth when it's negative, or when it fits the preconceived story I want to push.

Lol things are fine when it supports your argument and just wrong when it doesn't, funny

1 minute ago, splad said:

Lol things are fine when it supports your argument and just wrong when it doesn't, funny

Specify where what I'm saying contradicts the facts.

4 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Even if you would only register him having her at gunpoint as mutiny then still the damage of it happened during this timeframe.

When Poe pulls his gun on Holdo and relieves her of command, he has already to spoken to Finn, so that damage was already done. The actual armed mutiny, counting from when the blasters come out, causes effectively zero damage. Unless you're that poor bridge door. Maybe delaying the shuttle launch a a few minutes, but they didn't seem like they were in that much of a hurry as Leia had time to change fix her hair, change from her hospital clothes and shoot the breeze with Holdo for a while before leaving.

While there's a lot of rules broken and perhaps even treason committed before that, it's not a mutiny until the blasters come out. But that's semantics.

What puzzles me is that after speaking to Finn, he goes to see Holdo to plead with her to delay, and tells her about Finn's and Rose's plan. She then chews him out for endangering the fleet... why?

Sure, it might be that he mentions telling Finn about the shuttles, but Poe didn't know anyone was listening in. And if she knew about the opsec breach, why on Earthlike planet would she be all "Quite the trouble maker. I like him!" afterwards, not to mention as surprised as everyone else when the shuttles started exploding?

Was Poe's finagling to let Finn and Rose leave undetected endangering to the fleet in any way, despite neither of them knowing anything of critical value?

Something doesn't add up here, and it's such a minor detail that it bothers me to no end that it actually bothers me.

58 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

You could. I would watch them and we would be at odds about the conclusion.

You just stick to your narrative and I’ll enjoy reality! Thanks!

That's ok your 'version' of reality requires a jacket with extra long sleeves with a leather straps on it and 10 rolls of rubber wall paper. So i'm good right where i am sweetie:)

17 minutes ago, splad said:

That's ok your 'version' of reality requires a jacket with extra long sleeves with a leather straps on it and 10 rolls of rubber wall paper. So i'm good right where i am sweetie:)

Well the gloves came off I guess?! You are the one making conspiracy claims and I am the crazy person here?

I have reported you for making personal attacks.

My final reply to you is that if you truly believe your narrative about Disney conspiracy is reality then I have no idea how to discuss this. You keep jumping to absurd notions and once challenged on them you jump to insults and revert to matters long since discussed and left behind. Dude, no one cares about Rottentomatoes it is a site that literally has no safety margins nor verification so it’s meaningless. We have been over this.

Stop with the insults

In all honesty; while the actor does have a valid contribution as the portrayed of the character; I think that contribution does have limits which can be summarised within a statement. Mark Hammel is not Luke Skywalker. He is not a Jedi master who has had to live for 30 odd years as first the hero and legend on the republic, he is a man who is many people depending on what his job requires of him. While I find his performance great, his opinion on what Luke Skywalker is and how he should be isn't really his business. His job is to act according to the plot and be the man the plot requires. In his case he is likely too attached to the role and might be a bit precious about his long standing characters; this is precisely why most characters who make characters their intercultural properties tank.

39 minutes ago, penpenpen said:

She then chews him out for endangering the fleet... Why?

Because he did just that. They lost the majority of their fleet because of it. Literally.

That is what happens when you go around command to launch personal missions, when you do that, you always endanger your compatriots.

5 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Part of me is excited, but it felt like he phoned it in a bit on the Last Jedi score. It was almost all pieces we'd heard before.

Strong disagree.

Can I recommend a great podcast that delves into the soundtrack?

check the three parter Bobby Robberts did for the Full of Sith podcast it is a good experience to hear the new themes and motifs and some solid commentary to go along with it.

Also, Williams is NOT doing the Solo soundtrack. He is doing one theme that’s all.

13 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/946887382858547200

In before more conspiracy theories or am I already to late for that?