7 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Or you could embrace the F out of the silly, y'all:

Not sure how Desslok, but the quote in your post, is actually my words, but it shows as splad said them.

Everybody, everybody, stop! It's okay! We have beautiful Shistavanen Kylo pecs to think about!

48 minutes ago, Mindless Philosopher said:

Everybody, everybody, stop! It's okay! We have beautiful Shistavanen Kylo pecs to think about!

We also have his beautiful, beautiful words to contemplate.

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

"dear diary

today i got to first base

it was a rebel base

i destroyed it"

5 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Maelora is the one who coined the Mary Poppins reference, is she a sexist?

Yes. Yes, she is. In fact, I'm a complete monster

But srsly, I love Carrie and Leia to bits and I thought it was a tad silly. It would have actually made more sense if it was her son's doing, not wanting to lose another parent after he'd killed the first one.

I don't mind Leia the Jedi as a concept; I just think it's unnecessary for her character. She's one of the rare people who's awesome without the Force. It feels bolted-on really.

I only assume that - going forward - Leia was going to be a mentor of sorts to Rey with her brother dead. When we lost Carrie, we lost that entire plotline, unfortunately.

And yes, I very strongly felt that Force Awakens Rey was a colossal Mary Sue. Far too perfect; less of a character and more of a living incarnation of 'Girl Power' (TM). Last Jedi actually humanised her a bit. Luke shakes her up and makes her think for herself. Some of her foes actually get some licks in. She's not always as smart as she thinks she is. Y'see, I do love me some kickass heroines, but I like them to be human, someone I or other women might aspire to. Rey was better this time around because she had dialogue that went beyond 'I AM WOMAN HEAR ME ROAR'.

And here's a thing: it's perfectly fine to criticise women in fiction. We think we're big and tough and can write and act as well as the menz. Which we are. So when we do rubbish things we need to take that criticism on the chin, prove we're up to the task as male actors or writers have to do. It's no good saying we're equal and then reaching for the smelling salts and fainting couch when we get a little criticism.

Supporting the performance of women simply because we lack a chromosome, out of some kind of 'gender solidarity' is horribly misplaced and demeans us more than mere critique. At worst, it sets us up for a diet of more rubbish if we're immune to criticism. Yes, some sexist jerks disliked the Ghostbusters remake because they hate women. But some of us disliked it because it was bobbins, because it was badly acted and plotted and was a pallid imitation of a movie we loved.

See I have no problem with that Leia scene. It goes toward showing the Skywalkers are talented innate Force users. I think the training put forth in the prequels is more for the status quo Force users. Whereas the Skywalkers have innate ability that doesn't need much training. This is why Anakin could start training later and eclipse other Jedi. It is also why Luke could become a Jedi with little training. Rey is also very much an innate Force user. They all were able to use the Force with little to no training. So Leia, in a life threatening situation, was able to instinctively use the Force to save herself.

12 minutes ago, mouthymerc said:

See I have no problem with that Leia scene. It goes toward showing the Skywalkers are talented innate Force users. I think the training put forth in the prequels is more for the status quo Force users. Whereas the Skywalkers have innate ability that doesn't need much training. This is why Anakin could start training later and eclipse other Jedi. It is also why Luke could become a Jedi with little training. Rey is also very much an innate Force user. They all were able to use the Force with little to no training. So Leia, in a life threatening situation, was able to instinctively use the Force to save herself.

The division on this from what I feel isn't her abilities or the instinctive use of those abilities in a life or death situation. Just the naff way it was shot.

4 minutes ago, splad said:

The division on this from what I feel isn't her abilities or the instinctive use of those abilities in a life or death situation. Just the naff way it was shot.

Ah an ascetic issue. I can relate. Could it have been done better? Possibly, but it got the point across for me. Armchair directors, I am sure, could come up with a better scene. The entire series has scenes which could be better.

I like all you guys but I am having a very hard time with Marcy taking credit for the Mary Poppins thing. It is literally all over the internet and this page’s reach just ain’t that big.

31 minutes ago, mouthymerc said:

Ah an ascetic issue. I can relate. Could it have been done better? Possibly, but it got the point across for me. Armchair directors, I am sure, could come up with a better scene. The entire series has scenes which could be better.

Lol yea I agree. But that's the legacy of criticism and not being confronted with the daunting task to execute a massive project line this

29 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

I like all you guys but I am having a very hard time with Marcy taking credit for the Mary Poppins thing. It is literally all over the internet and this page’s reach just ain’t that big.

Lol that's the first thing I said to my wife when I saw that scene. I think most of everyone was on the same page for that one. But I saw that guardians of the galaxy 2 reference on here earlier which I thought was classic. Nice one:)

14 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Also, I don’t het the hatred for Leia using a force power. It seems a bit cynical and, to be perfectly frank, sexist how people keep harping on about it. We get it, she is an old lady, and she wore a dress... but really what is so weird about someone who was force sensitive 30 years ago already using a bog standard force pull to save her life that we constantly get the other-lady-in-a-dress joke?

I have no problem whatsoever with Leia using a Force power to stay alive and getting back to the ship. There's plenty of precedent for it (not least of which her own father using the Force to stay alive for quite some time after having 3 limbs severed and being immolated). I think the idea behind the scene was great - it was just the visual left me cold (no pun intended).

14 hours ago, splad said:

nope it was ignored:)

No, it wasn't. You said I'd accused you of something in a way you were confused about; then when it was called out as irony, you "ignored it"?

So, "you can't fire me, I quit?" Or, "you can't dump me because I just dumped you!"?

15 minutes ago, Endersai said:

No, it wasn't. You said I'd accused you of something in a way you were confused about; then when it was called out as irony, you "ignored it"?

So, "you can't fire me, I quit?" Or, "you can't dump me because I just dumped you!"?

Well if you think you have woven some wonderful conundrum a tapestry of mystery and finally proved black is white and white is black and then unexpectedly gets killed on a zebra crossing.

Despite being in general agreement with the Leia scene looking a tad silly (again: I love the idea behind it, I just don't think it was shot that well) - it still comes nowhere near the level of eye-rolling, throw-popcorn-at-the-screen, all-round absurdity of "Rebels" helicopter lightsabres...

15 minutes ago, Daronil said:

Despite being in general agreement with the Leia scene looking a tad silly (again: I love the idea behind it, I just don't think it was shot that well) - it still comes nowhere near the level of eye-rolling, throw-popcorn-at-the-screen, all-round absurdity of "Rebels" helicopter lightsabres...

I agree star wars rebels was pretty well grounded til that one took off.

/deadpanmode

14 minutes ago, splad said:

I agree star wars rebels was pretty well grounded til that one took off.

/deadpanmode

Oh. Oh...I have no words.

1 hour ago, splad said:

proved black is white and white is black and then unexpectedly gets killed on a zebra crossing.

18 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Also, I don’t het the hatred for Leia using a force power. It seems a bit cynical and, to be perfectly frank, sexist how people keep harping on about it. We get it, she is an old lady, and she wore a dress... but really what is so weird about someone who was force sensitive 30 years ago already using a bog standard force pull to save her life that we constantly get the other-lady-in-a-dress joke?

The visuals in the scene trigger with memes which are unfit for the scene, superman and mery poppins. Imho that is the whole problem. You add on top a cultural wrong perception of vacuum exposure and you end up with something like this.

Sorry guys, but the whole Mary Poppins/Superman thing is outright silly (in a SW context) - she's using Move to pull herself to the ship. And what's everybody doing when using that power - Luke, Yoda, Anakin, ...? Yes, they stretch out their hand towards the target!

So, if you see Mary Poppins, that's how YOU want to see it, not because there is any reference here. What is actually SHOWN is Leia stretching out her hand to pull herself in, nothing more. And that's purely in line with all the other movies (and I think, there's also a TCW episode showing the exact same thing ...).

8 hours ago, Maelora said:

And yes, I very strongly felt that Force Awakens Rey was a colossal Mary Sue. Far too perfect; less of a character and more of a living incarnation of 'Girl Power' (TM). Last Jedi actually humanised her a bit. Luke shakes her up and makes her think for herself.

She's clinging to an obvious lie and is driven by fear. She doesn't know how to use a gun despite claiming she does. She gets defeated and captured.

That's not a Mary Sue.

Yep, right after she flees in terror. If she is a Mary Sue then so are Luke, Annakin and a looooot more characters in this universe.

17 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Yep, right after she flees in terror. If she is a Mary Sue then so are Luke, Annakin and a looooot more characters in this universe.

Leia.

2 hours ago, Sunrider said:

So, if you see Mary Poppins, that's how YOU want to see it, not because there is any reference here. What is actually SHOWN is Leia stretching out her hand to pull herself in, nothing more. And that's purely in line with all the other movies (and I think, there's also a TCW episode showing the exact same thing ...).

"Want" is the wrong word in this context. You don't want to see it, you have to because your brain triggers those memories which are in recent memory based on other media you have seen recently. Not only is Mary Poppins itself iconic, but the memory of her scene was strengthened by Yondu's Mary Poppins scene in Guardians of the Galaxy II.

The scene makes sense for star wars, absolutely, but the scene is bad from a movie perspective, because it evokes the wrong emotions and memories, based on other medias. Just like the OT gets better because it is using references to all those other media at it's time, a movie can get worse, because evoking the wrong references.

And it gets worse with superman, which is one of the biggest icons of pop culture and with just a lot of terrible movies in the recent years with several scenes similar in look. And those references makes the scene a good idea with a bad execution. Even changing the camera angle might have made the scene much better. Now at the other hand in 20 years hopefully no one remembers Superman Returns or Batman v Superman … and the scene might work a lot better. ;-)

9 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

I like all you guys but I am having a very hard time with Marcy taking credit for the Mary Poppins thing. It is literally all over the internet and this page’s reach just ain’t that big.

Not only am I sexist, I'm a plagiarist too. I'm a terrible person.

6 minutes ago, Maelora said:

Not only am I sexist, I'm a plagiarist too. I'm a terrible person.

??? You guys keep finding things to misinterpret in what I mean. And that means I must not be bery eloquent in how I make my point.

I am sure you thought it up. Just like a great many others did...