2 minutes ago, Absol197 said:

Our minds have been linked! But not in the weird, Mind-Skype sort of way from this movie, but in a more subtle, "two minds working in concert to achieve a common purpose!" sort of way.

And we all believe you, Marcy. Really we do . You're going to bed. Uh-huh. Sure.

so long as there is no space milking involved and we don't have to watch it. shudders I swear I had a nightmare last night where I had my kids at the park and there was this creepy old jedi guy milking space udders and smiling creepily as the space cow lounged seductively enjoying it. WTF Happened to Star Wars?

4 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I just said, they got called out on an light incident of trying to manipulate ratings. So they really, really can't do this right away again without a giant risk to screw their business in general. Little to gain, a lot to lose. Unlikely scenario.

If there's smoke, there's fire. The mouse has tremendous power in the industry.

7 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:

If there's smoke, there's fire. The mouse has tremendous power in the industry.

Enjoy your conspiracy theory despite all evidence suggesting otherwise. There is no smoke, but your pants might be on fire.

53 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:

All of my teenagers loved both of the new movies. They keep yelling at me to quit making fun of it. Like I said before not made for my generation.

Nothing to do with generation. I think I liked it more than my son did.

6 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

You know, I am getting sense of while your life is so tedious. I keep mine more fun, so enjoy your conspiracy theory despite all evidence suggesting otherwise. There is no smoke, but your pants might be on fire.

I am hoping that you are joking about my pants being on fire. I am starting to see why you liked the humor in the movie.

6 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Nothing to do with generation. I think I liked it more than my son did.

Yep, I completely agree. RotJ was the first movie I can remember seeing in the cinema. I loved it and this movie even turned my wife into a Star Wars fan, so no complaints

1 hour ago, TrainedMunkey said:

so long as there is no space milking involved and we don't have to watch it.

You're welcome!

So, here's a really solid breakdown of the movie from Moviebob:

The best thing he has to say is "The Last Jedi is the movie about losing those illusions and accepting that the stuff you grew up fixated on isnt perfect, set in stone, or off limits to questioning or re-contextualizing - because otherwise, why are we bothering to make more of it?"

If you are there to just watch this movie you no doubt will rank it around 8/10 but for a star wars true blue you will give it a 4/10. The new generation doesn't give too much of a crap for a 40 year old movie. So they will go yippie to blue titty milk and Leia doing a Mary Poppins impression. This is not the star wars movie of my youth. The force awakens made me feel young the last Jedi made me feel old. I can only hope JJ Abrams can pull a winner out of his bottom. He's pitching it to Disney tomorrow.

Ranking

Empire strikes back

A new hope

Return of the Jedi

Force awakens

Revenge of the Sith

Last Jedi

Attack of the clones

Phantom menace

I'm a "Star Wars true blue", as you say, and it's a 9/10 for me, so. Also, not being the Star Wars movie of your youth was pretty much the point, I think. As Desslok so aptly quoted from moviebob - "The Last Jedi is the movie about losing those illusions and accepting that the stuff you grew up fixated on isn't perfect, set in stone, or off limits to questioning or re-contextualizing - because otherwise, why are we bothering to make more of it?"

5 minutes ago, splad said:

If you are there to just watch this movie you no doubt will rank it around 8/10 but for a star wars true blue you will give it a 4/10. The new generation doesn't give too much of a crap for a 40 year old movie.

Thanks for telling people whether they're "true" fans or not! Always good to know whether I'm liking a movie the wrong way.

6 minutes ago, splad said:

but for a star wars true blue you will give it a 4/10

Everything you just said in that sentence is wrong.

Just now, Desslok said:

Everything you just said in that sentence is wrong.

Nice try but I will not fall to your mind tricks

3 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

I'm a "Star Wars true blue", as you say, and it's a 9/10 for me, so. Also, not being the Star Wars movie of your youth was pretty much the point, I think. As Desslok so aptly quoted from moviebob - "The Last Jedi is the movie about losing those illusions and accepting that the stuff you grew up fixated on isn't perfect, set in stone, or off limits to questioning or re-contextualizing - because otherwise, why are we bothering to make more of it?"

That's the whole point is the essence of what star wars is or was is in danger of being lost their is a certain quality to what makes a star wars movie, a star wars movie

No offense intended towards anyone, but I don't think anyone should be telling people they should or should not like this movie based on their particular fanhood. Liking or disliking it doesn't somehow cheapen anyone's fandom or somehow invalidate it, one way or another.

I'm truely happy for those out there who enjoyed it, I wish I was one of you. I went in fully expecting to love it, and be raving about it for weeks on end, and being tortured by the 2 year wait until the next movie, but unfortunately, I didnt, and that's not going to happen. It saddens me greatly.

2 minutes ago, splad said:

their is a certain quality to what makes a star wars movie, a star wars movie

Please then, define for us what exactly is a Star Wars Movie?

ROTS was more entertaining that TLJ. I also have a similar order for the movies:

ESB=ROTJ>ANH>TFA>TLJ>Caravan of Courage>the Holiday Special>AotC>TPM

3 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Please then, define for us what exactly is a Star Wars Movie?

Watch this then. They pretty much have the same point of view myself and a slew of other fans had in reaction to this movie

*Pulls up a chair, casually munches popcorn.*

I must say this is the first time a movie has spilt the community in such a way. I find it quite fascinating.

Ok so I'll wade in now that I've digested it a bit.

The good

I actually started to care about kylo

"Take off that stupid mask"

We get to see slicing

I hated fisher's acting in tfa, much better, still stiff but the director knew how to use her range much better than jj.

I liked the wierd force stuff, mirrors scene etc

All the cute and comedic relief was fairly restrained and appropriate.

I enjoyed the sea creature milking

I liked how they portrayed luke mostly

The Yoda reunion was great, burn that **** tree!

Snoke's death was cool

Animal rights angle was a nice touch

I liked the casino thing but i wished it was more relevant and moved the plot forward better.

The astral projection was awsome.

Kid at the end was nice.

The Bad

Disposal bad guys. The original trilogy worked because of the continuity of the bad guys. Culminating in the tension that made Vader's turn all that much more rewarding. So now why Snoke? Better yet who cares now...

Mary poppins, however the idea it was kylo knight make it excusable.

Slow Chase and the weird side adventure why not just send all the transports out on different jump coordinates they are only tracking one ship.

While the pacing was better, it still suffered from moving to quickly. There is real down time in the originals and it makes it feel more real.

10 minutes ago, splad said:

Watch this then. They pretty much have the same point of view myself and a slew of other fans had in reaction to this movie

26 minutes for real? Do you have short VHS cut of this , because 26 ... hmm ok Bob was 17 minutes. Fair enough. Tomorrow then.

But for real, bob raps it up really well

Just now, SEApocalypse said:

26 minutes for real? Do you have short VHS cut of this , because 26 ... hmm ok Bob was 17 minutes. Fair enough. Tomorrow then.

But for real, bob raps it up really well

Lol I was asked how Rian Johnson failed so there it is. The two guys said exactly what I was thinking my wife and I were bringing up points just as they did.

Just now, splad said:

Lol I was asked how Rian Johnson failed so there it is. The two guys said exactly what I was thinking my wife and I were bringing up points just as they did.

It's ok. It just that it's 3AM and I got work to do tomorrow and 26 minutes is just two long. Actually even the 17 from bob where too long, but he fits into my filter bubble at least. But as I said, I am gonna check it out tomorrow and make fun about them then ;-)

2 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

It's ok. It just that it's 3AM and I got work to do tomorrow and 26 minutes is just two long. Actually even the 17 from bob where too long, but he fits into my filter bubble at least. But as I said, I am gonna check it out tomorrow and make fun about them then ;-)

Lol sounds like a plan

On ‎16‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:22 PM, Ireul said:

So I just got back from the theatre and am still processing, so apologies if this rambles.

The Good

Porgs: The fact they were everywhere in the marketing made me hate the things, so I smiled when I saw Chewie had cooked some but they were just adorable and weren't overused.

Yoda Cameo: Ah, old troll. I've missed you too. Just great, nothing to explain. Only gripe is the CGI could have been better. For a ghost he was surprisingly opaque. And speaking of CGI...

Force Bond: An interesting concept hindered by poor cinematography. Some CGI trickery would've spiced it up and made it otherworldly, instead we got close-ups. Really, anything besides constant close-ups of the actors' faces would have been better.

Flashbacks: Very cool to see Kylo's start, even as I hated it. I particularly liked the different versions - Luke's with him being peaceful, Kylo's with him looking all Sith-like, and the truth being somewhere in-between - great visual depiction of Obi-Wan's point of view deal.

DJ: A true Edge character. The little ticks like stuttering were a nice touch.

Fathiers: Mostly for being an interesting design.

Throne Room Fight: Despite my view that Snoke's guards' weapons and armor are a tad overdone, having Rey and Kylo team up to take them out was just awesome. The snap activation at the end was amusing, in a "OK, showoff" kind of way.

Lightspeed Kamikaze: I loved the sequence. Just beautiful, especially how the sound cut out for a bit. Though it raised a couple questions. How could a single ship traveling on a certain path hit all those ships like a shotgun blast? And why didn't the Separatists weaponize this?

Kylo: He's finally starting to be the villain I've wanted him to be. Shame it's a movie too late.

Battle of Crait: Exciting and excellent cinematography. Only two downsides: the cannon being miniaturized Death Star tech made me groan. Apparently all big guns are derived from that thing. Second was the lack of tension. Maybe it was because I was numbed by the rest of the film, but I felt like nothing was really at stake.

"Duel" at Crait: Would have been better without the Matrix dodge and Luke should've actually been there, but these things don't detract much. That laser barrage was amazing and funny.

Crystal Foxes: Really, I liked all the non-sentient creature designs in this film (except for the beach cow, *shudders*). From the way they ran from the First Order when the blast door was closing and that one guided the Resistance out, I get the feeling they're kinda like loth-wolves and are Force-attuned.

The Bad

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The whole Resistance plot: So the plan is to have the fleet travel in a straight line at sublight through empty space while the First Order makes constantly accurate shots on the shields the whole way? First off, either the Resistance shield tech is utterly amazing to take a beating like that or First Order turbolasers suck. Second, anyone with a time machine please send 2016 Rian Johnson a core rulebook, specifically page 240. Third, why is fuel suddenly a plot point when it's never been mentioned in the franchise, like, ever?

Luke: This is not Luke to me. The OT was a fantasy story in space with Luke undergoing the Hero's Journey. While TLJ Luke is a very human growth of the character, Star Wars has always been larger-than-life, so that approach doesn't work. I just can't buy Luke "I'm gonna redeem Darth Vader cuz I sense scant good in him" Skywalker became Luke "I'm gonna kill my nephew cuz I sense great evil in him" Skywalker. Even if it was a momentary lapse. On a positive note, I did love how snarky he'd become. Tricking Rey with that blade of grass was one of the few jokes that really worked.

Snoke: A wasted opportunity. No backstory, no motivations, no character. He got the Darth Maul treatment. On the other hand, another malformed, old, evil sorcerer overlord was a pretty lazy idea.

Balance: Specifically between Kylo and Rey. Snoke explicitly says that the reason Rey is so powerful and is a Light Side champion is because Kylo is so powerful and is a Dark Side champion. Insert Han "That's not how the Force works!" gif here.

The Jedi Books: Another wasted opportunity to expand the lore and philosophy of the setting. Though, since it would've been written by the same guy who did the above point, maybe we're better off this way. And not completely wasted since Rey, ahem, "scavenged" them.

Holdo: I found her character very annoying. She keeps the plan for survival from a desperate crew on the bridge of the Resistance flagship (ie people not likely to trend to betrayal), which results in Poe sending Finn and Rose off on a nigh-suicide mission and leading a mutiny. Great job. Her role should have gone to Ackbar. I'll explain below.

Rose: Her first scene with Finn was great. However, later it goes downhill with some of her characterization getting forgotten (She tells Finn she's not that good at talking to people as important as the Resistance heroes, yet has no problem around Poe). But maybe that's because most of her scenes were on the pointless Canto Bight subplot. I hated when she saved Finn, once again removing any self-determination from him. Man's been allowed to follow through on only, like, 3 of his own decisions. Then there's her last speaking scene. Winning by saving who you care about is fine, so long as it doesn't doom the cause you care about.

Canto Bight Subplot: Rich people are a-holes. Weapons dealing/war profiteering is bad. Thanks Rian. I'm glad you're here to tell us these things.

Jokes Everywhere: This is Star Wars, not another Marvel quipfest. Some jokes here and there is fine, even Empire got quite a few in, but every other scene is excessive. Besides most of them fell flat.

Knights of Ren: Where in the Force are they!!? And, no, they aren't Snoke's guards. The Knights number 6 and there were 8 guards in the fight.

The Ugly (and Weird)

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First Order Barrage: Since when do lasers freaking arc!?

Ackbar's Death: As I said above he should've been in command instead of Holdo. Here's why. During the Clone Wars, Ackbar fought with the Republic to repel the Separatist invasion and enslavement of his home planet only for the Republic to turn into the Empire and enslave his people. He then fought for the Rebellion to destroy the Empire and restore the Republic only for the Republic to allow the Imperial remnant known as the First Order to rise. He then fought for the Resistance. His whole life has been spent fighting wars for governments only for said governments to turn on him, setting him back to square 1. It would be easy to portray him as a war-weary, broken man secretly wishing to just escape the wars that have defined his life. Yeah, he's a fan favorite best known for the memes so it sounds like fanservice, but with the film's theme of subverting expectations (his being a loyal, dutybound admiral), it would've fit.

That Leia Scene: You all know the one. Let's just say all my mind could do was play the Superman theme. Also, how did they get her out without venting the hallway?

Holdo's Hair: This is actually an outgrowth of something that's been bugging me since 7. So Disney is adding alot of diversity to the new films. It started with Finn, a black main character who's backstory is being a stormtrooper/janitor. Then Rogue One adds a mystical warrior monk who was kung fu fighting and made him Asian. Well, now they add a character who's strongly hinted to being bisexual from the comics and give her a Tumblr dyejob. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the point of diversity pushes was to break down racial/sexual stereotypes, not reinforce them. (Kinda unrelated, but most of the extras with speaking lines in this film were either women or non-white with all the exceptions getting killed onscreen. Funny that)

Throne Room Parallels: Just utterly lazy writing. I was so bored because I knew how it was gonna go down; I'd already seen it before. After the flak 7 got for retreading ANH I thought they'd be painfully aware of this and go out of their way to avoid it.

Rey's Parentage: Wasted potential. Hoping Abrams just retcons it in 9 and Kylo was being a liar that lies (aka a typical villain).

Maz's Holo-call: So all other holograms/holographic communication has required the person to be in a single spot. Maz was all over the place in the middle of a firefight with an apparently telepathic droid (only way I can think of for the camera to keep up with her like that). It felt like something out of a Marvel film more than Star Wars.

Real World Phrases: "Chromedome" and "page-turners" are fine. "Big-***" and "Godspeed" pulled me out. First off, there are plenty of made-up curses in Star Wars, use one of those or add another. Secondly, godspeed? GOD DOES NOT EXIST IN YOUR UNIVERSE!

Space Survival: Apparently Paige Tico is an ancestor of Batman, for she can breathe in space.

Technology Continuity: So tracking a ship through lightspeed is impossible, huh? Obi-Wan has a little tracker that would disagree. Ya know, if it wasn't just a gadget.

Ma-Rey Sue: So Yoda struggled with and was winded by lifting an X-Wing, but Rey can lift tons of rock without breaking a sweat. Well, I guess that balance deal has it's perks; girl's getting to Sidious-tier without having to waste time on silly things like training.

In summary, still a better Star Wars film than The Phantom Menace.

1) Rey's parentage makes excellent sense. You missed the wider point the film makes.

2) It's not your Luke. It's Rey's story. Luke is merely a supporting character who, over 30 years, has grown and changed. Expectations needed to be managed.

3) re: Kamikaze: I took it that the damage done was bits of the Supremacy flung backwards and outwards at speed that gave it that effect.

4) Arcing lasers, falling bombs, and sound in space. lol @ hard science in space fantasy

10 minutes ago, splad said:

I was asked how Rian Johnson failed so there it is.

No, actually what I asked you was "What exactly is a Star Wars movie". Western? Space Opera? Samurai movie? Is it a Lensmen adaption? Is it a WWII war movie? Please, enlighten us to just what a Star Wars Movie is.