Just now, Stan Fresh said:

Finn starts out just wanting to protect Rey, and doesn't give a **** about the Resistance (and the wider galaxy, by implication). His experiences with Rose on Planet Unchecked Capitalism and with the hacker teach him about inequality in the galaxy, and that ultimate victory depends upon seeing and considering the bigger picture.

Eh, I guess, but it just felt very un-earned to me. I'm having difficulty articulating why, but it felt like he got to that end, without showing his work I think.

19 minutes ago, Maelora said:

I get 'how' but I'm still not sure 'why'...

Consulars have a kind of 'survive in a vacuum' power and flying is only Move. By FFG rules, it's a no-brainer. But so is Spaceship Skittles and we never see that in the movies.

I'm not sure what they were trying to say, in the movie, as to why Leia apparently can now use space magic? Is she going to train Rey now or something? Why are they telling us this? I get they have to take Leia out for a bit so Lady Dangerhair and Poe can have the conversational equivalent of Hate Sex. But why do it this way, and show us Leia's super-powers now?

For a film called 'Last Jedi', there seem to be an awful lot of them about...

Sowwy

<makes sad Porg face>

You know, I never noticed that there are an awful lot of "Jedi" in The Last Jedi. That is very odd, isn't it? And no, I don't have an answer for why. And isn't that kinda the point?

Aww, don't be sad, Marcy! I won't kill and deep-fry your Porg-mommy! I was just kidding around! Hugs!

31 minutes ago, robus said:

Yeah they need to get some keycard system

Or maybe a guard or two on the door of the new secret weapon......

1 minute ago, Absol197 said:

I won't kill and deep-fry your Porg-mommy!

An aside: me and my buddy, we almost crapped our pants from laughing so hard at that scene.

18 minutes ago, Desslok said:

An aside: me and my buddy, we almost crapped our pants from laughing so hard at that scene.

Eh, I actually didn't find it too funny. Obviously you did, which is fine, but that joke missed the mark for me.

1 hour ago, Maelora said:

What are they trying to tell us?

I think you're over-thinking it. It was an act of instinctive desperation, little more, just a nod to her potential. It doesn't mean she can suddenly do everything all the other supers can do.

1 hour ago, Maelora said:

Because breathing and flying in space is gonna come in useful, surely?

I don't know about "breathing", I don't recall her doing that. Movies have generally treated decompression as a one-way trip, but you can actually survive over a minute and still recover. You don't explode, your guts don't fly out, your eyes don't pop, and your fingers don't fall off...you basically get a severe case of the bends.

So maybe that's a little too much RL/science, but she wasn't out there that long, even accounting for dramatic-movie-moment-time-delay. Even with our RL tech she could make a recovery, never mind a bacta bath.

Practically the exact same scene happened in Guardians of the Galaxy, and nobody complained...

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

And that's where we diverge. Just a couple of weekends ago, one of the games we had was nothing but fluff like that. We didnt even notice that we forgot to generate destiny points because we never touched our dice. No, it wasn't convincing a broken disillusioned Jedi Master to come back to the fight, but it was just as character driven as that - and we loved it.

By the way, to the Hyperspace tracking thingie that the Bad Guys had? Check this out:

And this from Pablo Hidalgo:

That's kind of a cool easter egg. . . .

Not that I meant mind running that. I am good at old crotchety space wizard. My group just doesn’t go that way.

14 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I don't know about "breathing", I don't recall her doing that. Movies have generally treated decompression as a one-way trip, but you can actually survive over a minute and still recover. You don't explode, your guts don't fly out, your eyes don't pop, and your fingers don't fall off...you basically get a severe case of the bends.

As the scene was unfolding, I found myself thinking "Wait - real life decompression physics from the movie with Kung Fu monks moving rocks with their mind?!? How. . .odd". Yeah, it probably would have been a whole lot messier - but you know, PG movie and all - but that was pretty close to how it would play out in real life. More or less.

34 minutes ago, Absol197 said:

Eh, I actually didn't find it too funny. Obviously you did, which is fine, but that joke missed the mark for me.

Most of the jokes missed the mark with me. Luke “milking” the intelligent sea cow was kinda weird. So Chewie ate their friend and then they came on an adventure with him? The only part that made me chuckle was the Porg hitting the window.

8 minutes ago, TrainedMunkey said:

Most of the jokes missed the mark with me. Luke “milking” the intelligent sea cow was kinda weird. So Chewie ate their friend and then they came on an adventure with him? The only part that made me chuckle was the Porg hitting the window.

I agree. Most of the jokes felt like they'd be more at place in a Family Guy episode or Spaceballs. The "can you hear me now" scene was incredibly cringeworthy, just awful.

As an aside, I really like Family Guy and Spaceballs, just not in my Star Wars.

3 minutes ago, ghatt said:

I agree. Most of the jokes felt like they'd be more at place in a Family Guy episode or Spaceballs. The "can you hear me now" scene was incredibly cringeworthy, just awful.

As an aside, I really like Family Guy and Spaceballs, just not in my Star Wars.

Would you care for some sea cow cream in your coffee sir? It's fresh!

2 hours ago, Maelora said:

For a film called 'Last Jedi', there seem to be an awful lot of them about...

Here's my thinking on this - the concept of what a Jedi is died with Luke. It's like how the samurai protected the honor of feudal Japan, eventually dying out as time passed them by - but texts like the Hagakure or Bugei no jo survived them, leaving us with knowledge of the way of the samurai. Same thing here - those Jedi texts that Rey stole/Yoda moved will enlighten and inform - but not necessarily constrain - the next generation of Reys.

1 hour ago, TrainedMunkey said:

Luke “milking” the intelligent sea cow was kinda weird.

I took that to be Luke trolling Rey. "You want to hang around? Fine - watch me drink milk from the four breasted sea cow!" It was the curmudgeonly bitter Old Man version of Yoda's trickster gimmick.

(Also, mad props to Disney for giving us actual boobs - not udders - on screen in a PG movie.)

I'd just like to point out that TLJ has an "A" on CinemaScore - the same as TFA, and it's the industry standard for tracking audience reactions, since it's controlled and taken when people leave the theater, and there's another one that also as an "A" rating, though the name escapes me at the moment. RT doesn't track accounts, you can make hundreds and just continually give **** reviews. Plus, there's Facebook pages out there that are claiming to be trolling the film by making accounts and leaving bad reviews. And most of the ones I've personally read are more attacking 'feminism' and 'vilified white males', soooo I don't put much faith in RT audience reactions.

Disney has even said they don't give a crap about it, and studios don't track non-verified things like that anyway (Metacritic audience ratings, included.)

Also, I loved TLJ. Tied with Empire for my favorite. Frankly, a lot of the negativity I'm seeing in my personal circles is self-inflicted and completely misses the entire point of the film's message.

That last shot was perfect and beautiful, and it really shows Rian Johnson gets it.

I find when people start talking about the accuracy of polls it's because they don't like the results. TFA and R1 were 88 and 87 respectively and I don't recall arguments over their accuracy then. Personally since the random fans here on this forum are what I am sure, based on in some cases years of posting here, are actual people and die hard fans, and the sort of posts being made here are pretty split between suck/not suck, I think RT is probably pretty accurate.

Box office will be the final judge.

I'm simply pointing out that RT audience scores aren't used by studios since it's not verified, and that they use CinemaScore to judge reactions. (And the fact that trolling is likely a factor with it.) I've seen a few posts talking about the RT score and Disney being worried - which they aren't, and that's why I mentioned it. (I know some people who gave fake good reviews to JL to pump it up, so like... not reliable.)

Like, enjoy it however you want, or don't. Doesn't matter to me or change my enjoyment, but I also know a lot of people are just upset that they didn't see their favorite pet theory come true and that SW is not just Original Trilogy 2.0 and change is bad. And, to me, that's all self-inflicted, especially when the same people complained about TFA for doing the thing they wanted TLJ to do. Again, in my personal circles, and not anyone here - but yeah.

Bring on Episode IX.

Sorry, but when I went to bed at 0400 on Thursday RT was 70%. 4 hours later when I got up it was 54%. I simply don't buy the 'people make fake accounts' silliness. I also find Cinescore's number based on this forum alone to be highly suspect as the implication is 95% liked this movie? Sorry, no. In addition, you're not just pointing out the differences, you're pointing them out because you don't like the RT score and you do like the Cinsescore.

In addition I haven't insulted anyone who enjoyed it or called into question why they did, so I fail to see why you feel the need to insult people who didn't like it. I've said no one had been nasty here so how's about you exert some effort and keep it that way. If I can, anyone can.

I wonder if time will be the great equalizer here? People who are "Man, F this movie!" will mellow on that view? It's happened before - Empire was pretty poorly received when it first dropped, and look what happened to it in the interim 35 years. (Counterpoint: Everyone on the internet besides me hates Phantom Menace, and that's 20 years on now - so perhaps not)

Well if it makes you feel better waterbird, I think Revenge was way better than this film....

2 minutes ago, Desslok said:

I wonder if time will be the great equalizer here? People who are "Man, F this movie!" will mellow on that view? It's happened before - Empire was pretty poorly received when it first dropped, and look what happened to it in the interim 35 years. (Counterpoint: Everyone on the internet besides me hates Phantom Menace, and that's 20 years on now - so perhaps not)

Empire wasnt poorly recieved when it came out. Its only problem was that the good guys lost, and that was alot harder to pull off in the early 80 than it is today. Partly because of Empire Strikes Back.

I never said anyone here - I said personal circles, and people I know personally are upset for reasons that I personally find strange, but to each their own. One of my friends was really upset that Snoke wasn't some secret figure from the past, like Plagueis or Bane or someone else important, and it ruined the movie for them. Again, personal circles. I'm not talking about anyone here - all I saw was people saying Disney must be worried (or something similar) about the RT score and I was stating that studios use the CinemaScore metric.

Also - this forum doesn't give a broad base and neither does RT, but that's what CinemaScore has been used for since 1987 - they poll people coming out of the theaters all over the country and then put them up on the site. Now, probably not the best metric either, but just like Nielsen ratings, studios have to use something, and that's what they use.

I can also tell you from my own industry (video games) that people absolutely make fake accounts to dump audience/consumer scores. There's a whole subculture on the dark corners of the web that does it - for movies and video games, most specifically. I forget the FB page that came out and said they were doing it, but Deadline ran a piece on it yesterday - http://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-metacritic-imdb-users-cinemascore-posttrak-1202228837/

It's why they use CinemaScore - can't do it to that, since it's not an online based poll.

So, something struck me earlier. We don't seen Leia move any limbs, or breathe or anything really whilst in space. But we do know there is a powerful force user, within visual range, looking at her, who was already sensing her location with the force, who had just decided he didn't want to kill his mother.

1 minute ago, StarkJunior said:

I can also tell you from my own industry (video games) that people absolutely make fake accounts to dump audience/consumer scores. There's a whole subculture on the dark corners of the web that does it - for movies and video games, most specifically.

At 4 in the AM? In the span of 4 hours?? Color me skeptical.

4 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

At 4 in the AM? In the span of 4 hours?? Color me skeptical.

The levels people go to in order to troll or hate on something because of 'X' reason is astronomical. We have analytics to track review content vs. how many hours it takes to beat game without hacks or speedrunning, to help weed out such reviews.

1 minute ago, Darzil said:

So, something struck me earlier. We don't seen Leia move any limbs, or breathe or anything really. But we do know there is a powerful force user, within visual range, looking at her, who was already sensing her location with the force, who had just decided he didn't want to kill his mother.

Thats not even including the fact that she is probably as powerful as he is. Tho I like your take on it. That makes more sense to me cause that they were trying to make Kylo a bit more relatable

5 hours ago, Desslok said:

She wasn't part of a thousand year old prophecy, she wasn't a manifest destiny. Snoke was all "I thought it was Skywalker who would meet the challenge, but I guess it was you instead" straight out wrong. Anakin and Rey are completely polar opposites. This is reinforced by the later themes in the film and it's backed up by the director:

Ignore the prophecy BS. In basic terms, Anakin was chosen by the Force to oppose the greatest evil of his time. Rey was chosen by the Force to oppose the greatest evil of her time. That's all I was getting at.

5 hours ago, Desslok said:

“The easiest thing for Rey and the audience to hear is, ‘Oh yeah, you’re so-and-so’s daughter.’ That would be wish fulfillment and instantly hand her a place in this story on a silver platter,” Johnson said. “The hardest thing for her is to hear she’s not going to get that easy answer.”

Complete BS. "Rey, your parents are nobodies. You're exactly like billions of other people in the galaxy." That opens up no more conflicts for her to overcome. "Rey, your father is Luke Skywalker." Why did he abandon her? Does he even care? Or did he even know she was abandoned? Who's her mother? Why did she abandon her? etc, etc. Though, really, those are all details to a bigger question: Why was Rey treated like trash and discarded by a hero of the Rebellion? I can't think of an easy answer to that. Wish fulfillment isn't always bad. As for giving her a place in the story, she's the main protagonist, I think she's already got that.