I wish he do something better like reveal she's Phasma's niece who dumped her on Jakku with Hux jnr's help trying to protect her from Brendol Hux and his First Order.

Now imagine after Finn & Rose are captured that Phasma pulls the same stunt Finn did with Poe in TFA but only to get his help rescuing Rey?

They've tried to portray Phasma as a heartless Tarkin, but what if this had been true?

Rey isn't the only one whose force sensitive, her Aunt is too and SHE was the one who coerced the guard not Rey so she was fully aware Finn & co were there she helped them hoping they'd help Rey.

Given how Finn behaved it wouldn't stretch things if Phasma knew he was looking to rescue Rey and coercing them in the right direction to intercept her niece since she knew the route she was taking.

Only change with that comic was have her blow the garbage disposal door open rather by presumed luck.

She chased and killed the only one who could reveal what she did but I'd add she was genuinely regretted killing the pilot but it was a comic after all!

What would you have changed given the opportunity?

34 minutes ago, JorArns said:

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1745390/rian-johnson-explains-why-he-made-that-difficult-decision-about-reys-parents?story_page=2

Interesting article on Rey and her parentage.

It would never have been as affective as "I am your father", but it was pretty good given the hope and angst she put into it so far. I think it was a good call, leading away from "everything Skywalker".

Thing is, Rebels has already dealt with this, and more effectively imho. Ezra's ultimately fruitless search for his parents, and the realization that family can be who you choose instead of where you came from, is a compelling character arc.

At the end of E8 we're only in the middle of that arc for Rey, and I can't say I trust JJ to handle it without inserting a mystery box.

3 minutes ago, whafrog said:

It would never have been as affective as "I am your father", but it was pretty good given the hope and angst she put into it so far. I think it was a good call, leading away from "everything Skywalker".

Thing is, Rebels has already dealt with this, and more effectively imho. Ezra's ultimately fruitless search for his parents, and the realization that family can be who you choose instead of where you came from, is a compelling character arc.

At the end of E8 we're only in the middle of that arc for Rey, and I can't say I trust JJ to handle it without inserting a mystery box.

I agree. But we'll see I suppose.

22 hours ago, Maelora said:

it may be as Desslok and Mouthymerc suggest, that fan expectations were very different or that many fans just don't 'get' the film

It's a bit like Shin Godzilla. When you go into a Godzilla flick, you expect monsters and a man in a rubber suit smashing model tanks. What you are not expecting is a biting satire of Japanese bureaucratic inefficiencies in the time of a crisis - which is what Shin Godzilla was, and which is why tons of folks were crushingly disappointed with that really well done flick.

But then call me crazy - I like it when a movie actually has something to say, be it turning a spotlight on bureaucracy or deconstructing a 40 year old mythology.

17 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

I can see what you mean by it being about moving forward, but I would disagree on the bolded part.

• Binary Sunset at the end
• Artoo playing Leia’s message from a New Hope
• Snoke/Rey/Kylo scene parodying Palpatine/Luke/Vader scene

Here's the thing - yes the movie has echos what had come before. But all those echos feel organic, a natural, logical extension of what should be happening, where the story should be going. It's not at all like The Remix Awakens, where JJ was intent on going "See, we said that line!" *wink-wink* "Look at this thing that you remember!"

15 hours ago, Ireul said:

Anakin was a nobody slave on a planet so far from the Republic, it's laws didn't exist there.

Slave yes. Outside the republic? Yes. But he was also birthed by the will of the Force and the chosen one made manifest. He was as much a nobody as any other savior from earth mythology born to humble beginnings, as much a nobody as Jesus. His "It's your destiny" disqualifies him from being a nobody.

3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

All she does is flop around wildly in the water. That's hardly swimming

You can trust him. He's a penguin. We know all about swimming!

7 hours ago, Maelora said:

I don't think that's true, not here at least. Maybe this forum is just really civil (or the people I've blocked are the ones being uncivil and I don't see it!) but I'm just seeing polite opinions, most of them well-argued.

There's disagreements but I don't think anyone's nit-picking (or throwing around words like 'haters' or 'fanboys').

While they mostly left the characters untouched (alas), there were quite a few contentious elements (mind-Skype? Space-superman Leia? Fuel???) and it's no surprise the fans had differences of opinion.

Pointing out glaring plot holes is not nit picking, and I agree, no one has been nasty at all here.

The plot holes as I see them.

Why didn't we leave Resistance base right off? We were aware the 1st order knew our location when Hux was carting off Kylo to get his face put back on. One probe showed up on Hoth they were iffy on, and Riekann was all 'F it! we're out!'

Why didn't we call our allies as we were leaving our base? or just prior? That leads into the next one....

Why did we hyper jump to middle of no where?

Once in the middle of no where, we decided not jumping again and going somewhere we might defend ourselves better or too our aforementioned allies is a good idea?

We can't jump, they'll just follow us! Uhhhh, look at your rear view mirror, they already are. Jumping somewhere you can dig in, disperse yourself in a busy place, or otherwise have some kind of a chance is a bad idea compared to plodding along in the middle of no where getting shot to pieces?

Why do we need to go to planet Fantasia to call our allies? Why didn't we do that from the middle of nowhere? We called Maz, we can't call our allies why? I mean aside from the fact we should've done it before we left so we actually had a rendezvous set up or someplace to go to. That would have provided an opportunity for maybe a last stand space battle while Finn left to get more help or play some 21....

We decide on planet Fantasia because it's so well armored but of course, the 1st Order just happens to have the LOTR meets Star Wars space battering ram, even though they're flying around with dreadnoughts that have zip code killer guns.

Those are the holes, off the top of my head with one viewing.

Then there's the not so much plot holes as head scratchers that leave you mumbling, really?

Leia the Kryptonian.

Laura Dern costumed like a mother in law at a wedding reception.

Luke milking a sea cow on Planet Scotland, aaaaand drinking it.

Space donkeys that can run through the sides of casinos and coffee shops like they're made out of waffle cones.

Hux F-ing up and lipping off to not one, but two Sith repeatedly and not getting crossed off.

Again, the basic story idea was fine for this film, but it was not put together or thought out well imo. I'm not denying anyone the right to have enjoyed it. I don't walk into a movie wanting to dislike it. This stuff is just way too much though for me to have been anything other than disappointed in the stark lack of attention to plot detail in this film.

I already spoke at length about it with my friends. All that I will say here is:

Porgs suck and are only good for food.

Crystal foxes (Vulptices) are the best.

Is it just me, or did Rey apparently steal the books of the Jedi before she left the island? Because I could swear that you see the spines of the books in that drawer when Finn pulls out a blanket to cover Rose. Which brings a whole new angle to what Yoda said of "She already has, all that she needs", in reference to being a Jedi.

51 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Why didn't we leave Resistance base right off? We were aware the 1st order knew our location when Hux was carting off Kylo to get his face put back on. One probe showed up on Hoth they were iffy on, and Riekann was all 'F it! we're out!'

Ah, but they were leaving the resistance base right off. It just takes a while to pack and evacuate (and even then, they left stuff behind - that officer saying to skip the muntions). Even pulling out of Hoth, the rebels didn't beat the clock. So this was just a case of the bad guys moved faster.

51 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Why did we hyper jump to middle of no where?

But was it the middle of nowhere? They jumped to a spot 18 sublight hours away from an old rebel base - which in astrological terms is peanuts. It seems reasonable to me that they'd have a plan of "Lets not hyperspace straight to our one remaining resource". Like any good gamer, they dropped out away from their intended destination and were planning on making course corrections to the base before they got jumped.

51 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Why didn't we call our allies as we were leaving our base? or just prior? That leads into the next one....

The plan of "get to our new base and issue the call to arms" seems stronger than telling everyone ahead of time to show up into an unknown, potentially unsecured location. Hyperspace away, make sure your new facility is secure, get all of your ducks in a row and then start bringing in your allies one or two at a time. Much less risk to your organization and your allies when you can be methodical and careful about it and not "OHSHITCOMESAVEUSNOW!"

51 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Once in the middle of no where, we decided not jumping again and going somewhere we might defend ourselves better or too our aforementioned allies is a good idea?

Limited range. "I don't have enough gas in my car to get to the station with the cheap prices. Well, I guess I have to drive to the corner 7/11 and pay 2x more."

51 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

We decide on planet Fantasia because it's so well armored but of course, the 1st Order just happens to have the LOTR meets Star Wars space battering ram, even though they're flying around with dreadnoughts that have zip code killer guns.

Poe said the shield generators were still functioning, so the Empire had to drop the Wave Motion Battering Ram to do finish the job. No orbital bombardment available.

22 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Is it just me, or did Rey apparently steal the books of the Jedi before she left the island? Because I could swear that you see the spines of the books in that drawer when Finn pulls out a blanket to cover Rose. Which brings a whole new angle to what Yoda said of "She already has, all that she needs", in reference to being a Jedi.

Yes those were the books. As to who did the stealing, that remains to be seen. Rey is likely, but my money is on Coyote pulling one last one over his student and arranging for those books to go missing before he blasted the tree with the Power of Greyskull.

24 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Yes those were the books. As to who did the stealing, that remains to be seen. Rey is likely, but my money is on Coyote pulling one last one over his student and arranging for those books to go missing before he blasted the tree with the Power of Greyskull.

There was a brief shot of her putting...something...in the drawer. I just thought I missed what it was. By the end, I realized I wasn’t supposed to know in that earlier shot.

49 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

Is it just me, or did Rey apparently steal the books of the Jedi before she left the island? Because I could swear that you see the spines of the books in that drawer when Finn pulls out a blanket to cover Rose. Which brings a whole new angle to what Yoda said of "She already has, all that she needs", in reference to being a Jedi.

Yes, it's subtle but they were there.

Which makes Yoda's line about Rey already having everything she needs from the books funnier and more important as he knew she had already stolen them.

In context of the film and series as whole this is pretty awesome. It hints that the cycle can be broken with Rey being an entirely fresh start without the centuries of dogma and expectation which may have warped the original vision of the Jedi or the personal influence of a Master to rub off on her.

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

Ah, but they were leaving the resistance base right off. It just takes a while to pack and evacuate (and even then, they left stuff behind - that officer saying to skip the muntions). Even pulling out of Hoth, the rebels didn't beat the clock. So this was just a case of the bad guys moved faster.

But was it the middle of nowhere? They jumped to a spot 18 sublight hours away from an old rebel base - which in astrological terms is peanuts. It seems reasonable to me that they'd have a plan of "Lets not hyperspace straight to our one remaining resource". Like any good gamer, they dropped out away from their intended destination and were planning on making course corrections to the base before they got jumped.

The plan of "get to our new base and issue the call to arms" seems stronger than telling everyone ahead of time to show up into an unknown, potentially unsecured location. Hyperspace away, make sure your new facility is secure, get all of your ducks in a row and then start bringing in your allies one or two at a time. Much less risk to your organization and your allies when you can be methodical and careful about it and not "OHSHITCOMESAVEUSNOW!"

Limited range. "I don't have enough gas in my car to get to the station with the cheap prices. Well, I guess I have to drive to the corner 7/11 and pay 2x more."

Poe said the shield generators were still functioning, so the Empire had to drop the Wave Motion Battering Ram to do finish the job. No orbital bombardment available.

Yes those were the books. As to who did the stealing, that remains to be seen. Rey is likely, but my money is on Coyote pulling one last one over his student and arranging for those books to go missing before he blasted the tree with the Power of Greyskull.

I'm not actually going back forth because frankly crafting explanations in a forum that weren't actually on the screen is a confirmation that plot holes exist.

Eh, it just seems a case of occams razor - there's a reasonable and pretty simple explanation for most of those holes. Not everything needs to be stated on screen (or in some instances, like "Hey, the shields work, they cant bombard us" - it is stated on screen).

9 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I'm not actually going back forth because frankly crafting explanations in a forum that weren't actually on the screen is a confirmation that plot holes exist.

I get it, but I'd still pay good money to see any two of you, Desslok and Donovan arguing this one (not being facetious, seriously, you have awesome opinions even when I disagree...)

Didn't say there weren't reasonable explanations. Said they weren't in the movie, which is why they're called plot holes. A vetted round tabled plot/script doesn't have them. A movie with a quarter of a billion dollar budget shouldn't have them. Particularly not as many of them, and star to finish. This plot/script was very rough draft.

All of that was in the movie. It doesn't have to be said on screen like "As you know, Bob..." The implicit is as much part of a story as is the explicit. It's okay to think along with a story.

16 minutes ago, Maelora said:

I get it, but I'd still pay good money to see any two of you, Desslok and Donovan arguing this one (not being facetious, seriously, you have awesome opinions even when I disagree...)

See but I don't actually think there is an argument or a debate which is why I won't bother. 'Not-plot holes' don't require explanations. Plot holes require explanations. In regards to not being well done, the fan ratings pretty much make that point, because a Star Wars movie reasonably well done wouldn't have numbers like that.

Actually I think the fleet jumped there intentionally as Leia planned to set up the new base in the old Rebellion base.

Also I think that part of the plan was to then send scouts to find a more permanent solution to the base problem while using Krait as a temporary staging ground.

The bigger plot hole is what happened to Kylo Ren's original Lightsaber?

Who made it and why does he have a broken crystal in a jury rigged saber now?

16 minutes ago, Decorus said:

Who made it and why does he have a broken crystal in a jury rigged saber now?

**** you Uncle Luke, that's why.

Why would Ben keep the weapon symbolizing everything his uncle, who wanted to murder him, stands for? So he made his own, even though he isn't very good at it.

I assumed it was one retrieved from that world seen in Twilight of the Apprentice but he kept it as a relic of that past he now wants to kill?

1 hour ago, Decorus said:

The bigger plot hole is what happened to Kylo Ren's original Lightsaber?

Who made it and why does he have a broken crystal in a jury rigged saber now?

That's not a plothole, that something we don't know, but has no relevance for the plot at all. He might just have lost it during the destruction of the temple. In the worst case it is a mystery box.

Yah I agree, I don't see it as a plot hole. A curiosity, but not a plot hole. A more obvious one is if Luke didn't want to be found why did he leave a map?

5 hours ago, Desslok said:

Slave yes. Outside the republic? Yes. But he was also birthed by the will of the Force and the chosen one made manifest. He was as much a nobody as any other savior from earth mythology born to humble beginnings, as much a nobody as Jesus. His "It's your destiny" disqualifies him from being a nobody.

"Dark rises, and Light to meet it." Rey was chosen by the will of the Force to be the champion of the Light, the balance against Kylo - a dark-sider so powerful that Luke, who had faced Vader and Sidious, who had trained under Yoda - had never seen one as powerful as him. By your own argument Rey is as much a nobody as Anakin.

Best example of how the film's small details don't feel like Star Wars: Poe's use of the term: "big-@$$."

The only swear words in the Star Wars Galaxy are d----, h--- and nerf herder.

19 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Best example of how the film's small details don't feel like Star Wars: Poe's use of the term: "big-@$$."

The only swear words in the Star Wars Galaxy are d----, h--- and nerf herder.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

Dead serious about the a-word. Including that in a Star Wars movie is as silly as putting it in a Lord of the Rings movie. It's just totally wrong for the atmosphere of the setting.