How come he is still showing as an Executive Producer?

18 minutes ago, JgzMan said:

I'm forced to disagree slightly. My issue with the Ghostbusters movie was that they took an existing story, and did a gender swap on it, for the sole purpose of making something that was a male thing into a female thing. That's pushing an agenda. I might agree with that agenda, or I might not; that's irrelevant.

The new Star Wars movies, (TFA, and R1) are telling a continuation of a story, and this time, it's female leads instead of male leads. That's not an agenda, that's just the new characters. Even if it IS an agenda, they aren't mucking up the stories I'm enjoying, so they can push what they like. The amount I could care about the gender of the lead is amazingly small. If I find the lead attractive, well, that's all to the good. If not, then the story is still entertaining.

I contend that most (but not all) people worried about "pushing an agenda" are worried about that agenda being a detriment to the story. I've heard multiple reviews of the new Ghostbusters, ranging from "feminist diatribe," to "triumph of feminism" but I haven't heard whether or not it's a good movie, at least not from an unbiased source. (mostly people who liked the feminist angle thought the movie was great, and people who hated the feminist angle thought the movie was ****) That's not what I want for Star Wars. Put strong Female Characters in. Make them the lead. Make them the new Jedi. No problem. Just make sure you're telling a Star Wars story, not a political opinion piece.

----

As to the topic of the actual thread: I'm worried about the title. Supposedly Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith, but something else. The Sith are gone from the galaxy. If Luke is the last of the jedi, and Ray is to be something else, then we've lost a critical part of the Star Wars universe. It's always been Jedi and Sith. Legends has it as Jedi and Sith back to the dawn of recorded history. They don't have to be in every story, no, but to eliminate them entirely is a terrible, terrible move.

Can we blame this on JJ too, or has he left the team?

I think we can place the blame on JJ. I think most of the new characters in TFA were a little underbaked. I like Fynn, but his motivation was a bit murkey. Poe was cool, but his acting was over the top in a places. Rey was cool, but she seems way too competent for someone who has been so sheltered. Is it the Force? Could be. Did she learn it all on junk world? Could be.

I hope the last Jedi fleshes everyone out and makes them more well rounded characters.

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

How come he is still showing as an Executive Producer?

Because he;s good at negotiating a paychque for doing deuce-all.

He has stated that he was "Jealous" that the new director had a "much better script" to work with.

I for one really liked Force Awakens and the new characters. (Also I didn't get a "pushing a feminist agenda" vibe from it at all.)

My 22 year old son would say it is becasue I am a true sucker for anything Star Wars. I'm okay with that. I will even defend Ewoks.

Yup. I'm THAT much of a fan.

I enjoyed TFA... When I finally got to see it.

... in August of Last Year...

56 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

I think most of the new characters in TFA were a little underbaked. I like Fynn, but his motivation was a bit murkey. Poe was cool, but his acting was over the top in a places. Rey was cool, but she seems way too competent for someone who has been so sheltered. Is it the Force? Could be. Did she learn it all on junk world? Could be.

I liked them all. Fynn's motivation seems clear enough to me, and Rey is a survivor. I share your hopes of more character development, not because it's absolutely necessary, but because I want to see more of them.

29 minutes ago, JgzMan said:

I liked them all. Fynn's motivation seems clear enough to me, and Rey is a survivor. I share your hopes of more character development, not because it's absolutely necessary, but because I want to see more of them.

I dunno... Resistance kills his friend. He freaks out. Wants resistance pilot to help him escape? He's afraid of the First Order... who he has been with his entire life. He's not afraid to fight, but doesn't want to fight. I could see it being a conscience decision, but why stage an elaborate escape with a guy who he was trained to know is the enemy? Why not just go MIA during their next deployment? It's a little muddy to me.

Rey could be exceptional for many reasons... it's just left nebulous, which I'm excited to see expounded on in future movies.

I'm viewing his reaction more as his response to his first battle. Ask any soldier, or anyone who trains soldiers, and they will tell you that it's impossible to guarantee how someone will react to their first live combat, and that even veterans will occasionally lose their **** under fire. It's not common, look you, but it happens sometimes.

"Not afraid to fight, but doesn't want to fight" describes a lot of characters in the SW Universe. Ben Kenobi comes to mind. He's afraid of the First Order because he knows what they do. Hell, he's been trained to do it. He probrably knows exactly what the standard treatment of prisoners is, and what the extra bonus is for deserters, or "special targets."

5 minutes ago, JgzMan said:

I'm viewing his reaction more as his response to his first battle. Ask any soldier, or anyone who trains soldiers, and they will tell you that it's impossible to guarantee how someone will react to their first live combat, and that even veterans will occasionally lose their **** under fire. It's not common, look you, but it happens sometimes.

"Not afraid to fight, but doesn't want to fight" describes a lot of characters in the SW Universe. Ben Kenobi comes to mind. He's afraid of the First Order because he knows what they do. Hell, he's been trained to do it. He probrably knows exactly what the standard treatment of prisoners is, and what the extra bonus is for deserters, or "special targets."

Hadn't thought about it like that. Thank You

Haha! It's the trilogy about where Luke has been all this time.

On 1/23/2017 at 1:14 PM, Swusn said:

I don't want to be "that guy" but the plural of Octopus is actually Octopuses. I swear it.

Octopodes is the proper plural, although octopuses is accepted (but so is octopi, which is wrong as octopus is a Greek root).

I've read with last of the Mohicans to know how last anything titles go...

On 1/25/2017 at 7:42 AM, JgzMan said:

I'm forced to disagree slightly. My issue with the Ghostbusters movie was that they took an existing story, and did a gender swap on it, for the sole purpose of making something that was a male thing into a female thing. That's pushing an agenda. I might agree with that agenda, or I might not; that's irrelevant.

The new Star Wars movies, (TFA, and R1) are telling a continuation of a story, and this time, it's female leads instead of male leads. That's not an agenda, that's just the new characters. Even if it IS an agenda, they aren't mucking up the stories I'm enjoying, so they can push what they like. The amount I could care about the gender of the lead is amazingly small. If I find the lead attractive, well, that's all to the good. If not, then the story is still entertaining.

I contend that most (but not all) people worried about "pushing an agenda" are worried about that agenda being a detriment to the story. I've heard multiple reviews of the new Ghostbusters, ranging from "feminist diatribe," to "triumph of feminism" but I haven't heard whether or not it's a good movie, at least not from an unbiased source. (mostly people who liked the feminist angle thought the movie was great, and people who hated the feminist angle thought the movie was ****) That's not what I want for Star Wars. Put strong Female Characters in. Make them the lead. Make them the new Jedi. No problem. Just make sure you're telling a Star Wars story, not a political opinion piece.

----

As to the topic of the actual thread: I'm worried about the title. Supposedly Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith, but something else. The Sith are gone from the galaxy. If Luke is the last of the jedi, and Ray is to be something else, then we've lost a critical part of the Star Wars universe. It's always been Jedi and Sith. Legends has it as Jedi and Sith back to the dawn of recorded history. They don't have to be in every story, no, but to eliminate them entirely is a terrible, terrible move.

Can we blame this on JJ too, or has he left the team?

You're not "forced" to disagree, but you have been influenced to, practically programmed to. Was Ghostbusters making some statements, feminist ones even? Yes, but not the ones people think. Take Chris Hemsworth's character. People have talked about how ridiculously stupid he was as being some sort of "reverse sexism" against men, but in reality he was a comment on the multitude of characters JUST LIKE HIM but female, put in movies without batting an eye. Also, I reiterate my point about if a movie is all male it's not an agenda, but all female it becomes one. If Ghostbusters had been remade with an all male cast you wouldn't be saying that, and no, it is NOT because that would be "true to the original". Was it about nerdy scientists inventing cool technology to fight ghosts, making jokes, and being doubted and made fun of by the public? Yes, and thus it was true to the original.

Also, as far as receiving good criticism that wasn't based on it's "feminist message", I just don't think you were paying enough attention. Now, of course most make mention of the made-up "controversy" of it being all female leads, and some even talk about it quite a bit. That does not mean their praise is driven by that agenda. The massive, ridiculous reaction of the sexist trolls to even the announcement, let alone the trailer (which made it look bad, unfortunately, since it was wonderfully funny most of the way through) guaranteed that the reviews would HAVE to address it. This is another case of misogynists creating the problem, then complaining about it.

--
I'm a bit with you on the Jedi vs. Sith thing, but I'm also up for the story evolving. To have a real conclusion the story has to evolve, rather than just leaving it stuck in the same place, or in a place where it can end up back there.

ENOUGH!

Where is the ability to report because I'm sick of this feminist nonsense!

This topic is about the title of Episode VIII.

Yup. Saw that "Last jedi" in the scroll as well.

I'm really liking my crazy theory more and more...

6 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Yoda speaking to Luke in Return of the Jedi: "when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be"

Opening crawl of The Force Awakens calls Luke "the last Jedi"

Snoke, in a deleted scene from The Force Awakens, calls Luke "the last Jedi"

I think Episode VIII The Last Jedi is going to be about Ezra Bridger

Not really. But I had you going didn't I?

3 minutes ago, Eye of Thokem said:

Yoda speaking to Luke in Return of the Jedi: "when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be"

Opening crawl of The Force Awakens calls Luke "the last Jedi"

Snoke, in a deleted scene from The Force Awakens, calls Luke "the last Jedi"

I think Episode VIII The Last Jedi is going to be about Ezra Bridger

Not really. But I had you going didn't I?

Wait... I thought Ezra Bridger is Snoke.

Not really, but it would be interesting

1 minute ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Wait... I thought Ezra Bridger is Snoke.

Not really, but it would be interesting

Oh I wish. Means he'd be presumed dead at the end of Rebels until.....

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN!

The end of Episode IX when Snoke reveals he used to be called Ezra Bridger. After nearly choking on a sneeze he came up with the name Snoke.

21 hours ago, Admiral Theia said:

Take Chris Hemsworth's character.

Doesn't bother me. He's comic relief.

21 hours ago, Admiral Theia said:

If Ghostbusters had been remade with an all male cast you wouldn't be saying that, and no, it is NOT because that would be "true to the original".

No, but I'd still be bitching about it. Remakes are almost always a bad idea. Remakes to push an agenda are worse.

21 hours ago, Admiral Theia said:

but in reality he was a comment on the multitude of characters JUST LIKE HIM but female, put in movies without batting an eye. Also, I reiterate my point about if a movie is all male it's not an agenda, but all female it becomes one.

And here, you are, talking about the agenda. The message. Whatever you want to call it, it wasn't just "nerdy scientists inventing cool technology to fight ghosts, making jokes, and being doubted and made fun of by the public," it was that plus, "and girls can do it just as well as boys."

21 hours ago, Admiral Theia said:

I just don't think you were paying enough attention.

Not much, no. I don't care that much about movies, but I was interested in this one, since the first one was good. The trailer, as you observer, was not selling it, and I couldn't get a clean review.

Here, this is getting off topic. If you want to discuss this more, PM me. I'm always happy for a good discussion about contentious topics; I usually learn something.

-----

On the one hand, yes, story evolving is good. On the other hand, my biggest complaint about most trilogies is that they build you an awesome world in the first book, play around in it for the second book, and then burn it all down for the third. We can have evolution and conclusion without wrecking the thing that makes it special. Not all trilogies do that, look you, but when they do, I feel cheated.

In the meantime I'll go off-topic and ask how I can report posts that have nothing to do with the topic and nothing to do with the hobby!

(Edit: even better, I have the ignore)

Now, to try and bring this topic back: any thoughts as to whether or not Episode VIII will bring capital ships? Maybe Armada releases?

Honestly I expect this Episode IX. But I'm not up to date with rumours and news so I might of missed something.

The little blue flag by the username

I'm hoping we see more ships, though I'm not expecting any kind of big fleet battle. I'm kind of hoping that a big shiny fleet engagement might come in VIII as a surprise, kind of like the (amazing!) fleet battle at the end of Rogue One just kind of popped up as a surprise.

Seriously folks... this is not the place for gender politics. If you want to talk about that, create a new thread in off-topic and everyone who wants to can chat/argue/scream/rant to their hearts content. I'm here to talk and get info about Star Wars and Armada. If you want to join me, I don't care what gear you have between your legs, or color of your epidermis, or what deity you pray to, as long as you stay on target. Right here, right now it is episode's 8 title.

13 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

The little blue flag by the username

I wondered what that was for. Thanks!